DTX

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KentXie

06-06-2006, 05:58 AM

City plans to re-brand Downtown Crossing
By Donna Goodison
Tuesday, June 6, 2006

Copley Place is known for its high-end retail, the Shops at Prudential are backed by strong marketing efforts, and Faneuil Hall Marketplace is a tourist destination.

Downtown Crossing, meanwhile, suffers an identity crisis.

In an ongoing but slow-moving effort to turn around the ailing shopping district, the Boston Redevelopment Authority is seeking consultants’ proposals for an “identity and brand” strategy for Downtown Crossing.

“Right now, it’s all over the place,” said Randi Lathrop, the BRA’s deputy director of community planning. “We’re looking for someone to come in with their best ideas and look at redefining the downtown - to think out of the box and have unconventional solutions.”

The fate of Downtown Crossing is at a crucial point. The closing of Filene’s is imminent, and New York-based Vornado Realty Trust’s mixed-use redevelopment plans stand to reshape that block.

Now the BRA is looking for ambitious ideas for Downtown Crossing as a whole that are akin to the cleaning up of Times Square, Lathrop said. It wants proposals addressing how pedestrian traffic should drive development, services/retailers missing from the area, and whether Downtown Crossing should reopen to cars.

But one Downtown Crossing landlord said the city must be realistic about who’s congregating there.

“It’s not a crowd which is conducive to attracting people who have money to spend,” said the landlord, who did not want to be identified.

Landlord Robert Posner is trying to lure a tenant to replace the exiting Barnes & Noble on Washington Street.

So far, no retailers are interested, and Posner said the building will be vacant for the first time since 1928.

“The feedback we have gotten from a couple of prospective tenants is that the pushcarts so destroy the shopping atmosphere, that they don’t want to be there,” he said.

Ron Newman

06-06-2006, 06:22 AM

Landlord Robert Posner is trying to lure a tenant to replace the exiting Barnes & Noble on Washington Street.

So far, no retailers are interested, and Posner said the building will be vacant for the first time since 1928.

No, it was vacant after W.T. Grant closed, until Barnes & Noble moved in.

“The feedback we have gotten from a couple of prospective tenants is that the pushcarts so destroy the shopping atmosphere, that they don’t want to be there,” he said.

Pushcarts destroy the shopping atmosphere? Pushcarts are part of the shopping atmosphere. They provide an opportunity for people to engage in commerce who can't afford to lease a storefront. We should have more of them.

Faneuil Hall has pushcarts, the CambridgeSide Galleria has pushcarts, the Prudential has pushcarts, I think even the excessively upscale Copley Place has a few.

statler

06-06-2006, 07:53 AM

philip

06-06-2006, 08:31 AM

:roll: I don't see how the pushcarts affect the shopping atmosphere. I think they add great character to the area. That comment seems silly to me. And NO CARS!!

More "upscale" stores without becoming Copley or even the Pru would help also. Othere than Filenes and Macys there seems to be alot of low end stores down there selling crap. Stores with better quality products are needed.

The Virgin Megastore (as someone suggested here before) or another giant music co. would fit the mix greatly. Or the city could even encourage Apple to look around. A few brands such as these (smartly chosen) would add greatly to the area.

I remember a while ago a proposal for creating a BID fizzled or was shot down. Downtown could definitely benefit from this. BID's have been very successful in other cities.

I think encouraging more businesses to open further down Washington or having "anchor" tenants on both ends of Washington and Summer and Winter could help with traffic flow and allow "fill-in" businesses to be more successful.

Physically, the area itself could also use a good hosedown too. Even for a very urban place its very bland, grimy and univiting. I believe Macys was to redo the facade on their building adding windows and making the street level more inviting. Thats a good start. But, the city or BID could do much more to make the area more attractive and inviting.

A couple residential towers and some activity later in the evening (restaurants, nightlife) perhap connecting it more to Chinatown and the
the theatre district creating a more 24hr. area would be a huge+++.

I don't think thtis is the end of Downtown Crossing. If its managed properly it could definitely make a comeback

statler

06-06-2006, 08:52 AM

Physically, the area itself could also use a good hosedown too. Even for a very urban place its very bland, grimy and univiting. I believe Macys was to redo the facade on their building adding windows and making the street level more inviting. Thats a good start. But, the city or BID could do much more to make the area more attractive and inviting.

A couple residential towers and some activity later in the evening (restaurants, nightlife) perhap connecting it more to Chinatown and the
the theatre district creating a more 24hr. area would be a huge+++.

I think these are the two key points. The area needs to just plain look better. It need to be cleaner and those stupid pavers all need to torn up and replaced. Not the piecemeal repairs they are doing now. As to what to replaced them with I'm not sure. Not asphalt. Maybe tinted concrete mixed with granite blocks.
And Downtown Crossing needs a lot more restaurants. And a few bars & nightclubs. I think those things will start to come after 45 Province St is completed. Once the residents are in place the services to support them will start to pop up. (I hope).

Ron Newman

06-06-2006, 09:00 AM

If part of the Filene's property became a hotel, that would help a lot.

chumbolly

06-06-2006, 09:20 AM

A BID is exactly what DTC needs, but the police union kills it every time.

I think it's telling that a landlord--the one who asked to remain anonymous--thinks that the people that spend time in DTC aren't the type to spend money. To say nothing of what's implied by that attitude, build it and they will come, Mr. Lack-of Foresight. Times Square used to be a whole lot more skeevy than DTC, and now it is one of the economic engines of New York. I hate to say it because I love a lot of the historical architecture in the area, but this sort of attitude is a good reason to allow developers to tear the place down and put in some big new buildings. Let the slumlords (Levin Trust) sell to people who know how to make money by investing money.

PaulC

06-06-2006, 11:02 AM

In the 80's downtown crossing had the highest pilferage rate in the entire country. I don't know if it's still true.

I've been harassed many times there because of the color of my skin - white. I've walked passed gangs of black kids who feel free to shove me as they pass.

Ron Newman

06-06-2006, 11:09 AM

And I'm white and walk through there several times a week without incident. Maybe it's an age thing.

statler

06-06-2006, 11:34 AM

I walk through there all the time and never had a problem.
I've had kids brush me as I've walked by, but I just shrugged it off as a 'kids these days' type of thing.
It's all part of living in a city.

vanshnookenraggen

06-06-2006, 12:03 PM

But one Downtown Crossing landlord said the city must be realistic about who’s congregating there.

“It’s not a crowd which is conducive to attracting people who have money to spend,” said the landlord, who did not want to be identified.
*wink, wink* :roll:

I really don't get this. It's right on the edge of the financial district, there are two major thoroughfares that lead from the FD (Franklin & Summer) and you need to pass through DTX to get to the Common and Park St station. The people I see there tend to be quite mixed. Young, old, business types, urban types, yuppies & punks. I guess a mixed crowd is the wrong type of crowd.

Seriously? You don't get this? Go to DTX and then go to Newbury St, the Pru, Faneuil Hall and tell me what you see. Whenever I went to DTX I saw many more lower class black people than I see at any other shopping area in the city.

It is where poor people from Roxbury go to shop because its where they can get to on the T. Yes you see other people but the majority of people I have seen at DTX were lower class blacks.

The only way I see DTX coming back is if there are a few luxury condos built around the area (and some hotels). The area will then get cleaner. And whiter. And then where are poor blacks gonna shop? I think that this whole issue is more about pushing around poor people without doing anything to help them.

You want to clean up DTX? Clean up Roxbury. Make it a safe place to work and shop.

statler

06-06-2006, 12:07 PM

^^Nope.
I see a large majority of white folk in places like Newbury St, Faneuil Hall, & Copley, but I see a healthy mix of people in Downtown Crossing. Personally I prefer the mix. Life in the city.

vanshnookenraggen

06-06-2006, 12:09 PM

^^Nope.
I see a large majority of white folk in places like Newbury St, Fanuial Hall, & Copley, but I see a healthy mix of people in Downtown Crossing. Personally I prefer the mix. Life in the city.

I see a mix when I go to Times Sq, I see black people in DTX. As much as I love lots of different people I still feel safer on Newbury St.

Now I'm not saying that mix is bad. I agree that DTX does offer things that other areas of the city doesn't. You do get a good mix but you also get a lower-income mix. Thats the demographic and thats why you don't see high end retailers fighting eachother to open stores there.

\/\/\/ Cars would be fine if the street wasn't so narrow.

lexicon506

06-06-2006, 12:09 PM

As long as they don't open it to cars, I'm happy. Talk about killing the atmosphere....

statler

06-06-2006, 01:12 PM

In the old forum ablarc made a pretty good argument FOR opening DTX up to cars. Something to the effect of how it would add to the life and activity of the area. I wasn't quite convinced but he did make a good case for the idea.
I wouldn't be too upset it they opened the area back up on a trial basis, just to see what impact it might have on the area.

Ron Newman

06-06-2006, 01:16 PM

Ron Newman

06-06-2006, 01:18 PM

I don't see how cars could possibly benefit the area. Instead, the existing rules against cars should be enforced. Preferably by putting tables, planters, and other things in the middle of the road so that cars can't go there during shopping hours. If they want to open it up to cars after 11 pm I suppose that's OK.

Even police cars do not belong here. They should patrol it on foot or bicycle.

aws129

06-06-2006, 02:04 PM

Sadly, I think one of the primary reasons why DX is not perceived as an attractive/desirable location is the relatively large numbers of black and latino youths from the neighborhoods who like to hang out there. I feel like this is kind of the "elephant in the living room" of the whole revitalization discussion...I think older/white/middle class/yuppie people get intimidated by groups of teenagers -- especially if the kids are of color and sport "gangsta" style clothing. There's even a similar dynamic in the suburbs, where mall security discourages groups of teens from loitering in, say, foodcourts because they bother the older customers who actually spend.

Fortunately, I think DX can be improved without pushing out the youngsters -- honestly, they have as much right to be there as anyone. But it will require adding more businesses and new clienteles to the mix. Right now, the whole area is just DEAD after post-workday rush (at around seven or so). There are way too few restaurants, bars, cafes, and nightclubs that operate in the evening.

And -- as has been acknowledged here already -- the area needs a serious physical spiffing up. My personal preference would be to transform there area into an actual pedestrian mall (instead of the current half-hearted one) with attractive (maybe granite) hardscape and landscaping. And the pushcarts have got to go -- or at the very least rethought. My own opinion is that, in their current form, the pushcarts are ugly and sell crap.

Basically, DX needs to become a destination in its own right, not a place to quickly move through on the way to somewhere else.

vanshnookenraggen

06-06-2006, 02:12 PM

Seriously? You don't get this? Go to DTX and then go to Newbury St, the Pru, Faneuil Hall and tell me what you see. Whenever I went to DTX I saw many more lower class black people than I see at any other shopping area in the city.

So, different shopping areas cater to different market segments. What's wrong with that?

Nothing, thats my point. But people seem to think that because DTX caters to a lower class that it needs to be changed to cater to an upper class.

Ron Newman

06-06-2006, 02:14 PM

And it doesn't. However, it also must not be allowed to run down due to commercial vacancies. If filling the vacancies requires some repositioning, then let's have repositioning.

Ron Newman

06-06-2006, 02:18 PM

The barrier to making it an actual pedestrian mall is that deliveries have to be made here. They don't have to be made in the middle of the day, and shouldn't be, but there needs to be a way to get trucks into here late at night. That means any planters or tables or other obstructions placed during the day have to be removable after, say, 11 pm.

I still don't see why pushcarts here are any different from pushcarts in a mall or at Faneuil Hall. I like being able to buy a bag full of oranges while passing through here after work.

bosdevelopment

06-06-2006, 11:03 PM

DTX is the former social, architectural and retail capital of Boston but its complete and utter urban-ness (which is its most appealing part) keeps it stuck in virtual mediocrity in comparison to the rest of the area's retail centers.

In the 30's and 40's people didnt have cars. This made DTX and its surroundings the most reasonable area to go and buy things.

Since then the area has become more of a "tourst nyc compatability study", commuter thoroughfare and and townie hangout. Whereas in New York areas like this thrive with crappy retailers, it's tougher here because many people live in the city and have cars. Going downtown is almost a chore when they can just drive to fanueil hall, cambridgeside, copley or even that big box retailer in dorchester off of mass ave (which is becoming more and more packed by the day).

The solution is simple. The city shouldn't try to zone DTX into something it is not. Maybe taxis should be allowed down there, but allowing cars down those horsepaths won't accomplish much as I have stated before - there is nowhere to park.

One of my professors who used to live nearby used to comment on the area, claiming that the area was so centralized, it was almost isolated. This is definitely true of the areas on western washington like the locaton of hayward place, and that whole block up from the gayety. The old swissotel (now a hyatt) is the best example of DTX's plight, as it's downtown but at the same time, in the middle of nowhere.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v696/BOSDevelopment/Pushcartshit.jpg

justin

06-11-2006, 07:01 PM

The Boston Globe
The Ladder District is looking up
Condos and dorms are making a location into a neighborhood; the Combat Zone has never seemed farther away
By Tina Cassidy, Globe Correspondent | June 11, 2006
For five years it has seemed like the only people who actually lived near Downtown Crossing were the homeless sleeping on park benches or the wealthy in their aeries above the city at the Ritz towers.

But now the area, a quirky mix of fast-food joints, unique small retailers, chains, and B-grade office space, is fast becoming a major residential district, with many of the Manhattan-style lofts that have become so popular in the local condominium market.
Most of the recent focus on the Downtown Crossing area has been on what it is losing -- Filene's from the landmark building at the corner of Winter and Summer streets and the Barnes and Noble store across the street . But those departures mask an astonishing number of arrivals to the neighborhood -- particularly on the narrow parallel streets that empty onto Boston Common, a map grid that gave the area the marketing moniker of the Ladder District.
``It was just a matter of time," said David Greaney , president of Synergy Boston, which is converting two office buildings on Winter and West streets into 39 condos. ``You look at the other three sides of Boston Common and this area has lagged behind. You look at the city's support for a 24/7 neighborhood in [this] area and that support makes it easier to convert property from vacant office space to more desirable residential space. We're really upbeat on the area."
There are other signs of the district's conversion to a neighborhood: It now has a grocery store -- Lambert's Marketplace on the Common opened last week on Tremont Street selling fresh flowers, produce, ethnic breads, gourmet cheese, and deli items -- and a high-end home furnisher. Roche-Bobois, which sells $12,000 sectionals, is opening a store at the corner of Washington and Avery streets.
Two key developements in recent years helped sparked the wave of residential activity in this neighborhood: the nearly $1 billion Ritz project on Avery Street, and just beyond that, Emerson College's decision to relocate student housing and classrooms from its Back Bay locations. Both are located at the edge of the former Combat Zone.
``When you put students in that environment, it's like looking at the future. It pushes it to the next level," said developer Ron Gold, who is converting offices at 10 West St. and the adjacent 515 Washington St. into 73 condos.
Emerson is opening a new dormitory on nearby Boylston Street this fall. The college is also converting the long-closed Paramount Theater on Washington Street to theatrical space and is building a 260-student dormitory behind the facade of the adjacent Arcade building. The project, to be completed around 2009, would house students on upper floors and commercial space, probably a restaurant, on the ground floor, an Emerson spokesman said.
Directly across the street from the Paramount, Millennium Partners-Boston, the developer of the Ritz-Carlton Hotel and Towers Boston Common, submitted a plan in April to the Boston Redevelopment Authority for 225 loft-style condos with street-level retail on what is now a large parking lot. The apartments would be about 1,200 square feet and cost about $900,000 in today's market, though groundbreaking would not begin until next year -- assuming the city approves the plan.
The two buildings Gold is converting have smallish floor plates and were inefficient as work environments. But he said the spaces make for ``interesting" housing because the various layouts will make the units look less cookie-cutter than new construction. Expected to be completed at the end of the year, Gold has not yet priced the studios and one- and two-bedroom units.
Rainbow, a women's clothing store on the ground floor of the Washington Street address, will be moving out, Gold said, and representatives of upscale restaurants and retailers have expressed interest in taking over the location.
Meanwhile, Greaney's projects include seven recently finished condos above the GNC store at 43 Winter St., and another 32 condos he just started on at 26-30 West St., over the Blaine hair studio.
Three of the two-bedroom condos in the century-old mercantile building at 43 Winter St. -- the project is called Loft 43 -- have already sold; prices have ranged from $699,000 to $899,000. The West Street properties will hit the market in about 18 months, priced between $350,000 and $750,000 and ranging in size from 725 square feet to 1,500 square feet, according to Greaney.
Residential development is also extending beyond the Ladder District . Behind the Lafayette Garage, the Edison, at 42 Chauncy St., discreetly houses 40 condos. And closer to South Station, at 50 Summer St., plans may be in the works to add housing above the Walgreens, according to the BRA. The Abbey Group is also developing a tower with 150 condos on Province Street, where the Littlest Bar was. Construction is expected to be completed around 2008.
And the Filene's store and adjacent building on that block, which city and real estate officials said are in the process of being sold to a New York realty trust, may be redeveloped into a massive mixed-use project that could include luxury condominiums.
City Hall has been a big booster of all this development. The BRA has seven employees working on revitalizing Downtown Crossing, with plans to repair the cobblestones along Winter Street, add planters, make uniform all of the pushcarts, and ensure that vacant storefronts at least display art.
``There will be 1,300 new homes there in the next five years," Mayor Thomas M. Menino said in an interview. ``We want a diversity of incomes in the area. We don't want just high-income people. $300,000 to $400,000 units are part of what we're doing. Of course, some think that's exorbitant."

lexicon506

06-13-2006, 09:13 PM

1. I'm sure that DTX could use a boost economically, but it is very good at hiding it. I was there last Wednesday (which was a horrible day; cold, wind, rain, gray...) and it was still busy with people. I saw quite a few minorities but no one race dominated the area. The people under the umbrellas were of many different colors.

2. I was in Boston for my sister's graduation and my mom, who had thought the weather would be summerlike, needed a raincoat badly. We were staying near the Prudential Center, so we looked there and Copley Place. Soon, we realized that there was no hope of finding something under $200. We needed places like H&M, T.J. Maxx, Target.....and those are ALL in DTX. At first I supported the idea of spiffing up DTX, but I saw how valuable it is to have a place where normal people can shop without spending a fortune in downtown. That doesn't mean that it has to be trashy and vacant, but any efforts to revitalize it should be aimed at lower-end retailers (Target, for example, is a great idea). Boston doesn't need another expensive, hip, cool, high-end place! I don't want to turn every area outside of Roxbury into a "whites-only" territory.

ablarc

06-13-2006, 10:37 PM

I still don't see why pushcarts here are any different from pushcarts in a mall or at Faneuil Hall.
The reason is that Downtown Crossing is downmarket. In such a milieu pushcarts signify penury. In a mall or Faneuil Hall, they’re make-believe plebeian, like Marie-Antoinette’s peasant cottage.

.

justin

06-13-2006, 10:57 PM

Welcome back!!! I was tempted to start a thread 'Leon Krier sucks' or some such, to see if you're still among the living.

justin

Waldorf

06-13-2006, 11:09 PM

Ahh, now archBoston's Resurrection is complete. Welcome home.

quadratdackel

06-14-2006, 03:16 PM

Hi all! I'm back after a ridiculous stretch of nothing but studying for the PhD qualifying exam. (I did... OK; won't know if I passed for a few weeks.)

Just skimming through the conversation here. I'm a bit perplexed by the "DTX is shoddy" theme. It's among my favorite spots around, mainly because it's car-free but also because its stores are less expensive. I go there for some shopping or just to enjoy the street. I didn't realize its demographics were a problem. I understand the "intimidated by thuggish teenagers" phenomenon but if you're scared of DTX for that reason then Boston has plenty of alternatives, whereas if you happen to be such a teenager, there are few alternatives until you get much further outbound. If it dies down later in the evening/night, then that's a problem because it's underutilized, but adding the restaurants/clubs/etc need not change its character.

Boston doesn't need another expensive, hip, cool, high-end place! I don't want to turn every area outside of Roxbury into a "whites-only" territory.

Let's not make the mistake of equating race with wealth. There are plenty of poor whites and rich nonwhites out there.

Ron Newman

06-14-2006, 03:27 PM

I like the fact that young people are attracted to DTX. It means some of them may continue to be customers as they get older, assuring the area's continuing vitality.

I'd be much more concerned about DTX's future if most of the people hanging out there were in their 50s and 60s.

lexicon506

06-14-2006, 04:37 PM

Let's not make the mistake of equating race with wealth. There are plenty of poor whites and rich nonwhites out there.

You're absolutely right, but go into Barney's and tell me what the racial makeup is there.

ablarc

06-16-2006, 05:01 PM

Hey, justin. Hey, ZenZen.

(That's Southern for "Hi, justin. Hi ZenZen.")

statler

07-07-2006, 10:27 AM

Does anyone else think that somewhat useless plaza between Franklin St and the Filenes building would be a great place for a giant open air newsstand a'la Harvard Sq? You might have to raze the T headhouse and reincorporate it into the new design, but I think if done well it would really help out the area..

KentXie

07-07-2006, 10:42 AM

Ron Newman

07-07-2006, 10:46 AM

The future of that plaza depends a lot on what the Filene's developer plans to build next to it. It now adjoins a 1970s annex that the developer almost certainly will demolish.

statler

07-07-2006, 11:27 AM

Hopefully they will be allowed to build there and not be required to leave it as 'open space'. Ideally they would rearrange Franklin St back to it's original configuration and build on the other side, but that would require moving the T entrance, so that's not happening.

Ron Newman

07-07-2006, 12:02 PM

I doubt that Filene's now owns that land. If it's a public plaza with a T station entrance, it's probably owned by the city. Put the right use next to it, and it could come alive. The plaza in front of Borders is well-used.

KentXie

07-27-2006, 05:42 AM

Visions for downtown: Companies sketch out retail ideas
By Scott Van Voorhis
Boston Herald Business Reporter
Thursday, July 27, 2006 - Updated: 02:38 AM EST

Goodbye fast food joints and hello antique stores.

That’s one idea floated for reviving Downtown Crossing by one of a quartet of firms competing for a City Hall contract to “rebrand” the flagging shopping district.

Two local design/marketing firms, Utile and Minelli Inc., are vying with a pair of out-of-state firms, Washington, D.C.-based ERA Consulting Team and Toronto-based Urban Marketing Collaborative, for the $250,000 job.

The firms, in bids submitted to the Boston Redevelopment Authority, lay out the steps they will take to put together a marketing plan for the retail district.

The proposals also provide a few clues as to what may be in store for Downtown Crossing’s future.

“Our interest in Downtown Crossing is not just to make it a great shopping district, but to make it a great urban neighborhood,” said Tim Love, a principal of Utile Inc., whose offices are nearby on Summer Street.

In fact, Utile was the firm that has floated the idea of reining in some of Downtown Crossing’s traditional retail offerings in hopes of encouraging more shopping diversity.

“Scenarios” it may explore include, “a reduction in the percentage of discount and fast food retailers,” the firm writes in its proposal.

Utile also proposes an increase in high-end, “‘gentrifying” retailers,
including bakeries, cafes and small markets to support the area’s growing condo population.

A “restaurant row” and clusters of other businesses, such as antique stores and boutiques, is also discussed in Utile’s proposal.

Love called the ideas “trial balloons.”

Washington, D.C.-based ERA Consulting Team suggests government-backed financial incentives may be needed to “make adjustments to the retail mix.” That may include bringing in more sit-down, family style restaurants, new apparel and accessories stores, and home products outlets.

Utile’s other Boston-based competitor, Minelli Inc., which has teamed with The Macht Group and others, was short on detail and large on the big idea. Minelli’s two-page presentation calls for coming up with a “central brand idea.”

KentXie

07-27-2006, 05:44 AM

Doesn't this just make another Newbury Street? I don't mind if they take out all the fastfood joints but I hope they don't take out the store. Also, I hope they considered building clubs and stores/restaurants that stay open later than 7pm.

Ron Newman

07-27-2006, 06:43 AM

Macy’s to host fall Hub party to fete growth (http://business.bostonherald.com/businessNews/view.bg?articleid=149983)

By Donna Goodison
Wednesday, July 26, 2006 - Updated: 01:10 AM EST

The national launch of an expanded Macy’s chain will be marked locally with a Boston block party.

The Sept. 8 festivities are planned for Downtown Crossing one day before Federated Department Stores Inc. rebrands its remaining Filene’s and other regional stores nationwide to the Macy’s nameplate.

The two-hour afternoon event will include music, a dance competition, prizes and free food from downtown pushcart vendors for the first 500 attendees.

“We’ve been working with the city to coordinate this,” Elina Kazan, press director of Macy’s East, said in a swing through Boston yesterday. “It’s going to be a real all-out event.”

Federated bought Filene’s as part of its $11 billion acquisition of May Department Stores Co. last year.

The Cincinnati company is phasing out the Filene’s in Downtown Crossing, but will keep open its flagship Macy’s store there.

Federated has embarked on a “reinvent strategy” at the Macy’s stores to make them more shopper-friendly. Changes will include wider aisles, better fitting rooms, overhead signs to more easily spot departments and redesigned cash register areas.

New store amenities also will include self-service vending machines that dispense Apple iPods and iPod accessories. The Zoom Systems machines will be rolled out in Macy’s stores in Boston, Burlington, Braintree, Natick, North Attleboro and Peabody in September and October.

As part of increased customer outreach and a new national advertising campaign, Macy’s also has designated Boston as a stop for a mini Macy’s Thanksgiving Day parade experience.

Two 18-wheelers will roll into Boston in November. They’re being outfitted in Detroit to give customers a taste of the annual New York City event, with features that’ll include a parade history wall and an interactive simulated NBC broadcast.

Ron Newman

07-27-2006, 06:47 AM

“a reduction in the percentage of discount and fast food retailers,”

Doesn't that conflict with the desire to bring Target into Downtown Crossing?

callahan

07-27-2006, 09:48 AM

:shock: A "dance competition"!? I'm there! :P

bostonman

09-08-2006, 07:07 PM

Makeover for `tired' district
Consultants to study Downtown Crossing
By Keith Reed, Globe Staff | September 8, 2006

City officials yesterday hired a Toronto consulting firm to help them remake Downtown Crossing -- a place Boston's mayor says is ``really tired right now."

The shopping district, which was turned into a pedestrian mall in the 1980s, recently lost two of its biggest retailers, Filene's and Barnes & Noble.

Downtown Crossing ``needs a new brand, some revitalization, some new energy," said Mayor Thomas M. Menino, who walks the area three times a week among the approximately 100,000 pedestrians the district attracts daily.

Yesterday, the Boston Redevelopment Authority awarded Urban Marketing Collaborative of Toronto a $250,000 contract to come up with a plan for the area, which is east of Boston Common, adjoining the Theater District and the Financial District.

Menino said he wants Downtown Crossing to be attractive for the thousands of people who work downtown, as well as be a destination for residents of the area, which has attracted a spate of condo construction. A supermarket might help the district, the mayor said. But he does not want it to become another tony retail area that tries to mimic the Back Bay.

Downtown Crossing through the years

``You get a blend of different types of shops, but the key is what those stores look like, how they invite you in," he said.

Urban Marketing Collaborative has between six and eight months to make recommendations. They could include anything from new signs to pedestrian improvements to consulting with landlords who are looking to lease vacant second floors and the underground retail space that's connected to the MBTA's Orange Line and Red Line stations.

As part of its assignment, Urban Marketing must have two community meetings with residents, shopkeepers, and landlords.

Maureen Atkinson , a senior partner at Urban Marketing, said the firm's team will have to spend most of September and October on the streets in Downtown Crossing, gathering information. But that work should be done quickly enough for them to avoid interfering with harried Christmas shoppers.

The company competed against three other firms, winning with a 140-page proposal that detailed its other work helping to revitalize retail areas in Cleveland, Pittsburgh, Harlem, N.Y., Providence, and other cities.

Last year, Menino put Randi Lathrop, the BRA's deputy director, in charge of sprucing up Downtown Crossing by repairing sidewalks, adding more benches, and installing solar-powered trash compactors, to reduce the frequency of trash trucks rumbling through the area. That effort is still underway, she said yesterday.

In the meantime, the Urban Marketing team will spend much of its time trying to figure out what kind of identity Downtown Crossing should have to succeed, and what kinds of new stores would best fill the vacancies.

Grocery stores like Trader Joe's and Whole Foods have been successful in downtowns, though neither has been approached about Downtown Crossing, Atkinson said.

Underground, service businesses such as a dry cleaner, shoe repair shop, or a stand that sells lottery tickets might work, she said --but only if done with care.

``If you don't have a discipline that requires your retailers to reach certain standards, then it is definitely `ick,' " she said. ``But if you have a high standard of cleanliness levels, of what they put back into those areas, then it adds something of value."

Keith Reed can be reached at reed@globe.com.

© Copyright 2006 Globe Newspaper Company.

http://www.boston.com/business/globe/articles/2006/09/08/makeover_for_tired_district/

Mike

11-12-2006, 01:01 AM

Shopping for a name: New moniker eyed for Downtown Crossing
By Scott Van Voorhis
Boston Herald Business Reporter
Sunday, November 12, 2006

Downtown Crossing may be poised for the ultimate marketing makeover - a brand-new name.

That is, if Bostonians don’t take to the streets in outrage first.

A new moniker for the shopping district is under serious consideration by a City Hall marketing consultant and developers of the former Filene’s building, as the Hub weighs ideas for reviving the area amid a growing roster of empty storefronts, the Herald has learned.

Call it the ultimate brand relaunch, not of a product, but of a whole city section.

“Certainly that is on the table,” City Hall consultant Maureen Atkinson of the Toronto-based Urban Marketing Collaborative said Friday.

The name-change idea has found some powerful champions as well - a top developer with plans to remake Downtown Crossing’s historic Filene’s building and top public relations and marketing guru George Regan.

Regan, press secretary under former Mayor Kevin White, recalls the decision made to turn the downtown shopping Mecca into a pedestrian mall two decades ago.

But the area never really took off. Downtown Crossing’s current woes call for dramatic action - akin to rebranding and relaunching a failed product.

“It’s not a bad idea,” Regan said. “I would change the name and have a relaunch.”

Meanwhile, John Hynes, a top Boston tower builder and grandson of one of Boston’s most revered mayors, proposed the name change to the city’s consulting team at a breakfast meeting hosted by Mayor Thomas M. Menino. Hynes is now working on plans for a $600 million-plus remake of the 1912 Filene’s complex, including a 38-story office and condo tower next door.

“The area needs not only a face-lift, but a rebirth as well,” Hynes said. “There is no more obvious way to do that than to change the name.”

Still, Hynes and spinmaster Regan may dream of a grand brand relaunch of Downtown Crossing. But some store owners fear changing Downtown Crossing’s name could make things worse.

At least customers know where to find him now, said John Ruben, owner of the Washington Jewelry Exchange, right next to the Downtown Crossing subway stop.

“Everybody goes by Downtown Crossing,” Ruben warned. “Just leave it.”
The name-change idea is already sparking the ire of a legion of secret admirers of the Downtown Crossing moniker.

They don’t blame the name for the ugly gap-tooth store vacancies where Barnes & Noble once hawked books and Filene’s, now in the death throes of a final clearance sale, once drew throngs of holiday shoppers.

One financial worker compared it to changing the name of one of Boston’s most hallowed sports teams because of its wretched play of late.

“It’s like changing the name of the Celtics,” fumed an incredulous Genti Hysenbegasi. “I know they stink now, but are you going to change their name?”

Another likened it to the dismantling of the beloved lollipop sculpture, which once greeted passersby in front of a Summer Street high-rise at the gateway to Downtown Crossing.

“Everyone knew it as the lollipop building - now it’s just 100 Summer St.,” recalled a wistful Donna Leyden, a law office worker. “They need to leave significant, fun things downtown.”

Link (http://news.bostonherald.com/localRegional/view.bg?articleid=166882)

Scott

11-12-2006, 05:36 AM

How about Washington Street and Washington Station? :wink:

Ron Newman

11-12-2006, 09:07 AM

Why do people think Downtown Crossing is fundamentally broken? It's busy, it's lively, it's real. It attracts young people. Its current troubles are the result of decisions made far from Boston: Barnes & Noble closes their store instead of modernizing it; Federated Department Stores buys May Department Stores.

Fill the vacancies; leave the name alone. (And bring back the lollipops, while we're on that subject.)

Corey

11-12-2006, 12:20 PM

I would also be interested in hearing some reasons why it is "Broken." Surely every shopping district goes through periods of growth and decline, just like most malls. Coming from Maine, I always find downtown crossing to be inspiring as it is always busy and there is tons of stuff to do.

ablarc

11-12-2006, 12:30 PM

^ It's a shadow of its former self, Corey.

tocoto

11-12-2006, 04:58 PM

I think DT crossing's heyday must have been in the first half of the 20th century. I never saw it. In the 70s and 80s is was a lot more dilapidated than it is now although there were more stores right around Filenes. Lower Washington, a block away, was the beginning of the combat zone and it was a real mess. In the 70s there were entire blocks of strip joints and peep shows down there along with crime and abandonment. Now we have the Opera house, Paramount, maybe other thearters, with Millenium place and Park Essex further along Washington St. (with more to come). In my view Washington street and DT crossing are experiencing a renesance that has already dramatically transformed the area for the better. The closing of Filenes is more of an emotional hit than degeneration of the area. Someone is planning on infusing $600 million into the Filenes block, this would not have happened without the sale of Filenes. With the new buildings going into the area, it will become more lively on its own with or without a name change.

TheBostonian

11-13-2006, 12:16 AM

DTX would have been the supreme shopping district when it was at the hub of the streetcar, subway and commuter rail networks when these were more extensive and were the main modes of travel. Boston is a magical place because we still have a big passenger rail network with high ridership. But I don't understand why DTX is thought to be so shitty. If DTX is so terrible, what are other cities' historic shipping districts like?

BosDevelop

11-13-2006, 02:54 PM

those people who think that there is nothing wrong with Downtown Crossing have clearly never walked through there after 7:00-8:00pm during the week or 10:00-11:00pm on the weekend. the area is dead and border line unsafe for women! for a centrally located shopping/retail area there should be more going on once everyone gets out of work. someone should gut the Barns & Noble and turn it into a rock club/bar with live music.

PerfectHandle

11-13-2006, 02:58 PM

I think Downtown Crossing would be an amazing stretch for a live music district. You could pick one side street with two corner bars on Washington St. and make sure they spill out into the street. Imagine how it would be in the summer.

The only problem as I understand it is what to do with the waste disposal needs of restaurants and clubs. Anyone have any ideas?

Ron Newman

11-13-2006, 03:32 PM

I walk through it routinely in the evening, sometimes as late as 10 pm. I don't see what's unsafe about it. Sure, I'd like it to be open later, but not every part of Boston needs to rock away at 11 pm.

Even when this was The Central Shopping District for all of metro Boston, it was not open much past 7 pm on most evenings. I beileve Macy's and Borders now stay open until 9 pm which is considerably later than old-line downtown stores ever did.

BosDevelop

11-13-2006, 04:23 PM

[quote="Ron Newman"]I walk through it routinely in the evening, sometimes as late as 10 pm. I don't see what's unsafe about it. Sure, I'd like it to be open later, but not every part of Boston needs to rock away at 11 pm./quote]

I'm going to assume that you are a man. :wink: would you send your wife/girlfriend/significant other down Arch Street alone late at night? (think the area in and around the 711).

vanshnookenraggen

11-13-2006, 05:28 PM

The simple answer for what DTX needs is people. The next question is how to get people?

1. Build condos in the area. As straightforward a way to get people into an area as possible but anyone able to afford to live there would want high class stores which we already have in the Back Bay.

2. Better transportation. The DTX station, and many other downtown subway stations are dark and dirty by modern standards and this should be addressed first. Better lighting, cleaner stations, more trains will make people want to use the T more and use it to go downtown.

The other option which was the prevailing theory back in the day was to make it more like a mall, and not just making the streets pedestrian, but to drive a highway through it to allow middle class shoppers access. This obviously isn't an option today but this then cuts out a huge market; the middle class. Right now DTX servers more toward the lower classes and some chains which would do well in a Simons Mall flopped here because it is a different demographic.

My recommendation: keep the pedestrian only street, clean up the station, DON'T build condos, and I would put the whole area under glass like the old strip in Las Vegas. And build underground malls like Montreal. This area is PERFECT for them. Design a super-subway station like New York is doing downtown connecting Park St, DTX, Chiantown, Boylston, State St, and Gov't Center.

The dreamer in me would like to tear down a few buildings and create a great open central space for people to sit, rest, and watch. But there are way too many beautiful buildings on Washington St and the ugly ones which should be torn down arn't in the right places.

If the city can't attract middle class shoppers (and since housing prices are too absurd for them to move anywhere near DTX), the only option for attracting people is to attract tourists and those who live within transit access.

tommym96

11-14-2006, 04:07 PM

I think Downtown Crossing would be an amazing stretch for a live music district. You could pick one side street with two corner bars on Washington St. and make sure they spill out into the street. Imagine how it would be in the summer.

that would be a good start, it needs a facelift bad, I was down there today, I like the variety of stores but it could use more.

Ron Newman

11-14-2006, 04:18 PM

It is too bad that the Loews multiplex was not built in Downtown Crossing, perhaps where Lafayette Place is now. That would have brought hordes of people into the area at night.

Downtown could still use a second, more 'art film'-oriented multiplex.

sidewalks

11-14-2006, 05:03 PM

I agree...an arthouse movie theatre could be viable in that area. But I would guess that the Modern does not have the capacity, and the RKO is simply too big.

Ron Newman

11-14-2006, 05:11 PM

I don't think much is left of the Modern's interior, and the RKO doesn't seem suitable for the kind of subidividing that a chain such as Landmark would need.

Roxxma

11-15-2006, 09:53 AM

Aren't there four theatres (one large theatre, subdivided) in the building at 600 Washington St? Would these be suitable?

Ron Newman

11-15-2006, 10:05 AM

I haven't been in there so all I can rely on are these photos (http://cinerama.topcities.com/boston.htm ) and these comments (http://cinematreasures.org/theater/4870/). It was definitely subdivided in its final declining days, but probably not in a manner that would be suitable for a high-class company such as Sundance or Landmark.

It's also, like the Loews multiplex, too far south to really bring people into the heart of the Crossing.

statler

11-16-2006, 08:01 AM

Retailers: Don’t change Downtown Crossing name
By Scott Van Voorhis/ Special retail report
Boston Herald Business Reporter
Thursday, November 16, 2006 - Updated: 01:14 AM EST

Downtown Crossing retailers and shop owners are rallying to save the district’s name as City Hall weighs adopting a new moniker for the struggling shopping mecca.
Anne Meyers, president of the Downtown Crossing Assocation, said she has been flooded with calls from retailers opposed to the change.
The outpouring of concern followed a Herald report on Sunday that a marketing consultant hired by City Hall is studying whether a new name could help revitalize an area hit with the loss of key anchor stores.
The first call came in at her home shortly after 8 a.m. Sunday, Meyers said.
“They have invested a lot of time and energy and money on that identity, that they are such and such at Downtown Crossing,” Meyers said. “It’s like saying it’s not going to be the Back Bay anymore.”
“Nobody called to say they loved it,” Meyers said.
The name Downtown Crossing itself dates at least to the 1970s and the administration of former Mayor Kevin White, who closed much of the area to traffic in a bid to create a pedestrian-friendly shopping district.
But city officials are now considering an array of changes as part of a broad effort to remarket the flagging retail district.
The city hired marketing consultant, Maureen Atkinson, who has acknowledged that a name change is among the ideas being explored, but has stressed that the discussions are still preliminary.

Link (http://business.bostonherald.com/businessNews/view.bg?articleid=167563 )

statler

02-28-2007, 07:50 AM

Crossing planners aim for ‘quality’: Combine shopping and leisure
By Donna Goodison
Wednesday, February 28, 2007

Consultants developing an identity and branding strategy for Boston’s Downtown Crossing unveiled their proposed vision yesterday: an expanded pedestrian-only retail and leisure zone that serves as “Boston’s meeting place.”
Although they see opportunities for more upscale stores in Downtown Crossing’s 1.4 million square feet of retail space, upscale wouldn’t define the overall district, said Maureen Atkinson, senior partner at Urban Marketing Collaborative, the Toronto consultants tapped by the Boston Redevelopment Authority. “But we do want quality retail,” Atkinson said. “Quality doesn’t mean it has to be expensive.”
The pedestrian zone, which would be strictly enforced, would allow for outdoor cafes and retail that spills into the street. The enlarged zone would include Washington Street from Temple Street to Milk Street; Winter Street; Bromfield Street; and portions of Summer and Franklin streets.
Curbs would be removed, and roadways would be recovered with decorative pavers. After early-morning delivery hours, electric bollards would rise from below ground to prevent cars from entering the area, traversed by 100,000-plus people each day.
Places where people can “stop and look,” such as the paved areas outside Borders bookstore and next to the Filene’s building, also would be enhanced. “We’re trying to slow people down,” said Randi Lathrop, the BRA’s deputy director of community planning. “A lot of people walk through the Crossing, but they don’t shop in the Crossing.”
Pedicabs and a bike corral where people could lock bikes, get them repaired or rent them are under consideration.
The consultants developed their proposal after surveying Downtown Crossing stakeholders and people who frequent the area.
They delineated three districts within Downtown Crossing to determine where new businesses would best fit. The central district, where H&M and Macy’s are located, was identified as the mainstream retail area. “We also see the opportunity to do things like a food market and wonderful restaurants there,” Atkinson said.
The north district, likened to Carnaby Street in London, is more historic and eclectic with smaller upscale retailers and restaurants. The south district, which abuts the Theatre District, was compared to Toronto’s King Street East design district.
“This is the innovative, funky district where things like a learning center could go,” Atkinson said.
The idea for a learning center came from London’s Idea Centers. Located in shopping areas, they combine retail, learning and cultural attractions with services usually associated with libraries, such as book and DVD borrowing.
Link (http://business.bostonherald.com/businessNews/view.bg?articleid=185388 )
http://business.bostonherald.com/images/business/cross_ltp02282007.jpg
There are two larger renderings in today's paper if somebody has access to a scanner.

statler

02-28-2007, 08:34 AM

Pedestrian-centric plan for downtown
Consultants add cafes, limit cars

By Jenn Abelson, Globe Staff | February 28, 2007

Consultants hired to help remake Downtown Crossing are proposing to expand the pedestrian-centered shopping district while creating an oasis replete with sidewalk cafes, bicycle taxis, and a fresh-foods market similar to Harrods Food Hall in London

The multimillion dollar plan calls for closing parts of Bromfield and Franklin streets to vehicles, eliminating curbs throughout the pedestrian area, and installing barricades to restrict traffic. Washington Street, the axis of Downtown Crossing, is already closed to most vehicles.

"We want to open up the area as much as possible to pedestrians and create a meeting place for people to stop, shop, and spend their money in Downtown Crossing," said Maureen C. Atkinson, senior partner at Urban Marketing Collaborative. Last fall, the Boston Redevelopment Authority hired the Toronto firm to devise a plan for the area.

Downtown Crossing, the area around the intersection of Washington, Winter, and Summer streets, was once the city's retail mecca. But it faces big challenges.

It has, for instance, lost two of its biggest retailers in the past year, Filene's and Barnes & Noble. And the owners of Filene's Basement, the district's top tourist attraction, plan to shutter the store by fall for at least two years while the building in which it's housed undergoes major renovations.

For years, Downtown Crossing has struggled to keep pace with other retail areas around Boston, despite daily pedestrian traffic of more than 100,000 people.

The consultants said they considered options that included opening Downtown Crossing to automobile traffic -- a move that has worked in other cities -- but decided to preserve the pedestrian mall because of its heavy foot traffic, increasing residential density, and the convergence of subway lines.

"Over time, the pedestrian aspect has been frittered away -- with delivery vehicles all times of the day and curbs everywhere," said Chris Beynon , principal and director of planning and design services for MIG, another consulting firm working on the project. "Our strategy is to make it a true, robust pedestrian area."

The consultants developed their plan over the past few months after interviewing hundreds of merchants, residents, developers, and city officials.

Envisioned are open-air restaurants and upscale retail space on the north side of Downtown Crossing, with the central part anchored by Macy's and a food hall. South of that the consultants propose a library and meeting space as well as a home furnishings store, such as the Japanese merchant Muji, which sells furniture, office supplies, and apparel.

The consultants have not approached retailers yet, but hope to hold a meeting with potential tenants.

They expect to present a plan in May that outlines what would be needed to go forward, if the plan wins enough support.

"There's no doubt there needs to be more money spent in Downtown Crossing," said Ron Druker , a Boston real estate developer who owns property there.

"There needs to be enhanced maintenance, replacement, and reconfiguration of the streets to make it more pedestrian-friendly. This vision makes a lot of sense. The biggest challenge now is figuring out the financial vehicle to make this all happen."

Jenn Abelson can be reached at abelson@globe.com.
Link (http://www.boston.com/business/globe/articles/2007/02/28/pedestrian_centric_plan_for_downtown/ ) [“Consultants add cafes, limit cars”]

IMAngry

02-28-2007, 09:12 AM

Hmmm. The artist's rendering isn't quite accurate.

Where are the gangs of thuggish kids lurking in the middle of the street?

Joe_Schmoe

02-28-2007, 09:24 AM

Well at least they included a guy in a tuxedo playing the violin. DC has so many of those you have to keep ducking so as to not get poked in the eye by all the sawing bows.

IMAngry

02-28-2007, 09:39 AM

The reality:

http://iain.cx/photos/images/violinist.jpg

statler

02-28-2007, 09:41 AM

I'd actually prefer him to the guy in tux. I bet he plays better music. Plus he just looks 8).

Roxxma

02-28-2007, 11:13 AM

I'd actually prefer him to the guy in tux. I bet he plays better music. Plus he just looks 8).

I dunno.. Just from my own observations, bearded crazy-looking old men tend to be pretty good violinists...

statler

02-28-2007, 11:18 AM

I dunno.. Just from my own observations, bearded crazy-looking old men tend to be pretty good violinists...
The dude's a Gypsy! All the cool cities have Gypsys. Boston needs more Gypsys! :D

lexicon506

02-28-2007, 04:37 PM

Boston needs more Gypsys!

Amen to that! I think a Gypsy School of Music anchoring Downtown Crossing would work quite well, old and young alike dancing in the streets!

But seriously, I support any plan that will increase and more strictly enforce the pedestrian zone. I really don't understand why pedestrian only streets haven't been embraced in American cities, they work wonders in Europe! And what better place than Boston, with its narrow and twisty streets that no one likes to drive down anyway.
They also seem to have the right idea with attracting quality but not exclusively high-end retail. A good mix of retail brings a good mix of people, although some on this forum would disagree.

Padre Mike

02-28-2007, 04:43 PM

When I was a kid, we traipsed from the suburbs into Jordan Marsh's because there was no where else to buy clothes. We fought the traffic, the littered streets, the grime and the crowds. This was before the concept of the "shopping experience."
When they created "Downtown Crossing" it was out of sheer desperation. Suburban malls, urban crime, the perception that downtown was dead and the closing of many old-time shops and department stores all contributed to the decline of the area.
Now that the city has long removed all the benches from Summer St., the highly touted Franklin St. T station area has been derelict for years, and the larger dept. stores are closing, it's time to open the streets to traffic and entirely rethink the concept of a downtown shopping district. What we need here is a true NEIGHBORHOOD.
Fine, have a couple of dept. stores, a supermarket similar to the one at the Pru, lots of small shops and decent restaurants (not just fast food please!) as can exist and redevelop the entire area for affordable and market-rate residences, elderly housing, and LOTS of hotels, large and small, affordable and high-end. And please don't complain about the lack of parking, the traffic noise, etc. It's all part of the urban LIVING EXPERIENCE.
It's time to return the area back to the 18th and early 19th century, when Washington St. and environs was primarily residential, filled with homes, small businesses and gardens. Let's get off the idea that Boston needs a "Downtown Crossing." The neighborhoods and other areas of downtown already have plenty of shopping opportunities.

IMAngry

02-28-2007, 05:06 PM

I guess car-free promenades work in some places. In others, they ruin everything.

Ever noticed how often people are walking through Downtown Crossing, and still stay on the sidewalks, even when nary a car is in sight?

It's a force of habit.

Sounds as though whichever way they decide, some will be unhappy.

lexicon506

02-28-2007, 05:09 PM

it's time to open the streets to traffic

I don't see how that accomplishes anything....

It's time to return the area back to the 18th and early 19th century, when Washington St. and environs was primarily residential, filled with homes, small businesses and gardens. Let's get off the idea that Boston needs a "Downtown Crossing." The neighborhoods and other areas of downtown already have plenty of shopping opportunities.

Cities, just like pretty much everything else in the world, tend to change over time. You can't expect to have a 19th century Boston full of homes and small businesses 100+ years later. In fact, that's the source of many of Boston's problems, the city tends to dwell in the past, and that doesn't get us anywhere. This attitude is what keeps the city from accepting contemporary architecture, more height, and anything that isn't brick.

The era of department stores that you remember is over. It's good that the city is looking for a new future at DTX, and not simply giving up. The trend is starting to lean back towards cities, and this is an effort to usher it in faster. Downtowns are meant to be the center, both economic and cultural, of an urban area, and I see no problem with the city trying to reach that goal.

lexicon506

02-28-2007, 05:11 PM

Ever noticed how often people are walking through Downtown Crossing, and still stay on the sidewalks, even when nary a car is in sight?

Yeah, you're right about that. But if they take away the curbs like the plan calls for, then I'm sure people will start to properly spill into the street.

Ron Newman

02-28-2007, 06:19 PM

Now that the city has long removed all the benches from Summer St., the highly touted Franklin St. T station area has been derelict for years

This may change now that the Franklin Street headhouse is used as an entrance and not just an exit. (One of the benefits of the new Charlie system.)

it's time to open the streets to traffic and entirely rethink the concept of a downtown shopping district....
It's time to return the area back to the 18th and early 19th century, when Washington St. and environs was primarily residential

You contradict yourself here, because the 18th and 19th century city didn't have automobile traffic. It was primarily a pedestrian city.

IMAngry

02-28-2007, 09:03 PM

Ron, where were you for five days?

Ron Newman

02-28-2007, 11:56 PM

I don't understand your question.

IMAngry

03-01-2007, 12:11 AM

Just hadn't noticed you posting for the past several days.

jass

03-01-2007, 12:17 AM

I think we may have a stalker!

Padre Mike

03-01-2007, 06:58 AM

To Lexicon:

My issue is not literally to return to 100+ years ago, but to bring back the mix that existed back then, which hopefully would include high rises and contemporary architecture. I am not, as historians are wont to be characterized, someone who necessarily wants more brick in Boston! Indeed, there are many beautiful non-brick buildings in DC, ranging from Beaux Art to Art Deco. I love, for instance, the Vornado Gp. proposal for Filenes.

Padre Mike

03-01-2007, 07:03 AM

To Ron Newman,

I did not contradict myself. Traffic 100 years ago meant horses and wagons. "Traffic" is a general term that may include autos, buses, trolleys, animals, and people. I am suggesting we return the Wash. St. area to traffic...which in contemporary terms would include modern vehicular as well as pedestrian, and even bicycles that carry passengers. Horses may prove messy!

kz1000ps

03-01-2007, 11:01 AM

Downtown owners walking fine line over traffic plans

By Donna Goodison
Thursday, March 1, 2007 - Updated: 08:15 AM EST

Downtown Crossing property and business owners praised newly unveiled city plans to spruce up the tired Boston shopping district, but questioned the viability of closing additional streets to car traffic.
Converting Bromfield Street to a pedestrian-only thoroughfare wouldn’t be good for business at J.J. Teaparty, which trades in rare coins and paper money, senior buyer Liz Coggan said.
“That’s problematic for people who have merchandise they’re trying to bring into our store,” she said. “Who wants to walk around the streets with thousands of dollars’ worth of coins in their pockets?”
A traffic study is needed to determine whether Bromfield Street should be included, said Abbey Group Chairman and CEO Robert Epstein, who’s building 45 Province, a $175 million condo tower and parking garage off Bromfield.
“Right now, the traffic leaves the garage in two directions, down School Street and up Bromfield,” Epstein said. “It might be too burdensome to empty that garage in a single lane down School Street.”
But Silvertone Bar & Grill would welcome the opportunity to add outdoor seating if Bromfield closes to traffic, owner Katy Childs said.
“A pedestrian zone is one of the things that Boston lacks,” she said.
Some questioned whether the no-vehicle plans would be strictly enforced.
“Existing rules and regulations haven’t been very well-enforced,” said Anne Meyers, president of the Downtown Crossing Association.
A pedestrian-only Washington Street remains a solid idea, but “always fails in the details,” agreed Tony Pangaro, principal at Millennium Partners, owner of The Residences at the Ritz-Carlton Towers.
“There are way too many trucks there at times during the day,” he said.

Padre Mike

03-01-2007, 01:35 PM

I don't know why Donna Goodison says: "A pedestrian zone is one of the things that Boston lacks.” I would consider most of Boston a pedestrian zone. We could use wider sidewalks here and there, but basically Boston is a walker's city. I have yet to hear a good argument for closing off parts of the city solely for pedestrians, particularly when City Hall Plaza, the walkway under 1,2,3 Center Plaza, the plaza in front of the Adams Court House, the area around the Marriott Customs House, the plaza fronting the China Trade building on Boylston St., and many other pocket plazas are woefully underutilized for the relaxation and enjoyment of the public.
The city of Florence, Italy, has closed it's entire old section to vehicular traffic, and so have been sections of Rome's central core. These areas are given over entirely to pedestrians (read: tourists) because one can literally trip over an important historic or artistic site every two feet! This is not the case in Boston. In the decades during which Washington St. and Winter/Summer Streets have been closed to vehicles, the area has become less and less interesting. Many of the architecturally significant buildings have been defaced by renovation or have not been maintained. There is a lack of variety in retail and restaurant establishments.
The elimination of sidewalks and curbs will not stop the police cars, ambulances, cabs, and delivery trucks from hogging the roadway. If there were small parking zones, wide sidewalks and otherwise no on-street parking, the streets would serve to bring more people, including new residents, into and through the area. Access to the theatre district would be enhanced, as would movement from Tremont St. to the financial district.
My vision for the area would be similar to that of Vancouver, B.C., where retail and food establishments are topped by slender, balconied towers of apartments and condos. There the street life is varied and wonderful due, not only to the tourists, but to those who have found affordable housing. The former LaFayette Mall, (the circular retail maze which I predicted before it opened would fail) has thankfully been replaced; here would be a perfect place for a slender tower of apartments.

vanshnookenraggen

03-01-2007, 01:53 PM

I'm gonna have to agree with Padre Mike on this one. Pedestrian malls are a throw back to modernist thinking of separating traffic and people. Look at Newbury St. It is always crowded with people and traffic. If we were to make it a pedestrian zone I am convinced that the shops would start to move elsewhere.

Traffic is one of those tricky areas. On the one hand a city needs traffic to stay alive but then if there is too much it can hurt the city. Getting rid of traffic altogether would be like draining a body of blood.

lexicon506

03-01-2007, 06:16 PM

Getting rid of traffic altogether would be like draining a body of blood.

We're just talking about some specific areas of town here, not the entire city. I'm originally from Florence, Italy, and know what Padre Mike is saying about the all pedestrian center. I think it's an incredible experience to walk down those streets full of nothing but people, and although there are unfortunately an insane number of tourists these days in Florence, I've been to many other less visited European cities with an equally successful pedestrian center. There is no reason why this can't be replicated here in America. Especially in a city like Boston, which is famous for its walkability and where the streets were never meant for cars in the first place. Is it really necessary to have cars in DTX? or the North End? IMO, walking down Wash St. when it's full of people is a much more urban experience than squeezing down 5th Avenue with traffic blaring at you. Maybe I'm blinded by my European background, but I believe that cars add absolutely nothing to a city and we can definitely afford to kick them out of a few select areas of town. Even my American hometown of Charlottesville, VA has an incredibly successful pedestrian mall that would have never realized its potential had it been kept open to traffic. It's not modernist thinking, it's what cities were originally built as: places for people, not cars.

IMAngry

03-01-2007, 08:32 PM

Yes ... it's wonderful to walk down streets where there aren't any cars ...

You mean like Main Street USA at Disney World?

Also, there ARE streets in Boston where there aren't any cars ... they're called sidewalks.

lexicon506

03-01-2007, 08:56 PM

You mean like Main Street USA at Disney World?

If that is really the first thing that pops in your head, then I feel sorry for you. Do yourself a favor and buy a plane ticket to Europe before making smart comments about something you've obviously never experienced.

Ron Newman

03-01-2007, 09:06 PM

Also, there ARE streets in Boston where there aren't any cars ... they're called sidewalks.

I don't understand -- which Boston streets consist only of sidewalks? Are you referring to Quincy Market?

LeTaureau

03-01-2007, 09:22 PM

A good example of pedestrian/car traffic flow is Newbury street. The sidewalks are always jammed with people, its a busy district. But the cars and traffic flow are also part of the ambiance, and part of the charm of the neighborhood. Its the place to see and be seen, and what better a way than to cruise through the neighborhood in the summer time with the windows down. You can get a taste of the energy and the neighborhood by simply driving through. Its fun. Same thing on Hanover street, cars add to the fun and excitement of the experience.

The sidewalks in DTX are plenty wide enough as they are for pedestrians. Its time to open up Washington Street to traffic and link it to the rest of the city. Somehow, it feels insular to me, even though it is a major transportation node.

Padre Mike

03-01-2007, 10:36 PM

LeTaureau, thank you for stating my case so well. As it stands now DTX must be a "destination" for the walker, or for the driver who will park in a downtown garage. There needs to be the critical mass of people who will drive into DTX for a quick visit as well as those who will saunter longer, as on Newbury St. A street such as Newbury is also attractive because the individual storefronts are generally narrow, and thus the rhythm of change, color, design and display from store to store makes for an interesting and more memorable urban experience. The same is not true of the monolithic facade treatments of Macy's, H and M/Marshalls, the old Filenes, the CVS on the corner of Chauncy, the newly vacated former shoe store, later gym on the corner of Arch St., the fast food establishments on Summer St., the blank wall behind the Radisson Hotel, the Pi Alley garage, the horrid plaza in front of Morgan/Stanley, etc. There is actually a greater argument for making Newbury St., not DTX, a pedestrian-only street, due to this factor alone (no, I am not suggesting Newbury St. should eliminate vehicular traffic!)

PerfectHandle

03-02-2007, 10:02 AM

Am I the only one who goes a little crazier every time I read or hear "DTX".

I hope they don't go with that branding. It makes the area sound like some kind of generic airport mall.

Merper

03-02-2007, 10:43 AM

I've always hated the "Downtown Crossing" moniker.... DTX is even worse though.

Padre Mike

03-02-2007, 11:39 AM

I'm just using what everyone else is using. I hate DTX also, as well as DTC. I prefer "Washington St., Summer St., Winter St., etc. I'll refrain from DTX (I keep thinking of LAX which in turn makes me think of Milk of Magnesia and tummy aches!)

LeTaureau

03-02-2007, 11:41 AM

I don't like DTX either, but its easier to type

PerfectHandle

03-02-2007, 12:01 PM

The DTX thing isn't on you guys. I understand that it's easier. It's just an annoyance of mine.

I don't love the name Downtown Crossing either. Before Downtown Crossing, it was called Centre City, which I like a lot better. If the name is highly important, an idea that I have a hard time buying into, then Centre City is better than either Downtown Crossing or DTX in my mind.

Thoughts?

Ron Newman

03-02-2007, 12:24 PM

I never heard it called Centre City. That's a Philadelphia term.

kz1000ps

03-02-2007, 12:33 PM

DTX sounds like a trim line on some cheapo car from the '80s.

"Hyundai Excel DTX."

PerfectHandle

03-02-2007, 12:49 PM

I never heard it called Centre City. That's a Philadelphia term.

I could definitely be wrong. I did a quick search and couldn't find anything, but that's what I was led to believe. Centre City, if it existed may not have perfectly matched up with what's called Downtown Crossing now.

Anyone know?

LeTaureau

03-02-2007, 01:11 PM

Downtown Crossing is much better than SoWa, or one of those other stupid marketing names that realtors randomly create. I was in Charlotte last week, and everyone was talking about NoDa. So freakin annoying sounding.

Its been Downtown Crossing for as long as I can remember. I don't have a problem keeping it that way.

statler

03-02-2007, 01:23 PM

Yeah, it's much better than the "ladder district" or 'EaBo". :x
Plus, it is a pretty well defined area so I think it slightly less akward then saying "Where Washington St crosses over Winter/Summer St., Franklin St/Bromfield St, down to about Summer St."
I would perfer it be a more traditional "square" Like Washington Sq or Filene's Sq. but Downtown Crossing is harmless enough.

IMAngry

03-02-2007, 01:59 PM

Yes, renaming areas haphazardly is dumb.

To clarify though, SoWa was named by a local property owner, and the Ladder District was named such many years ago, based on the type of industry in the area (or, the street configuration?).

Beyond that, yes, Realtors suck!!!

PerfectHandle

03-02-2007, 02:03 PM

The Ladder District was named such many years ago, based on the type of industry in the area (or, the street configuration?).

Street configuration.

Ron Newman

03-02-2007, 02:11 PM

Filene's Square would be cool, but Macy's and every other surrounding retailer would rightly object to that.

Scott

03-02-2007, 04:18 PM

I never heard it called Centre City. That's a Philadelphia term.

Many people still call it Washington Street and Washington Station which is a lot less cheesy than Downtown Crossing and the Zone was/is Lower Washington Street. The name was changed in the 80's mainly because the station had something of a bad reputation.

btw- I thought south of Washington Street was Dedham.

Padre Mike

03-02-2007, 05:33 PM

Never heard of "Centre City"....my parents, who grew up in town, always called it "Downtown"....as in , "We're going downtown to shop for school clothes." It was understood that "downtown" was centered on Jordan Marsh and Filenes and spread from State St. to Boylston St. The end toward Boylston St. contained lots of movie theatres and then became the "Combat Zone" when adult entertainment moved in. Mayor White tried to sanitize the zone by adding lots of lights and building the little square across from what is now the Registry, in the "Liberty Tree" building. Concentrating all the adult stuff in one place only led to increased crime. Its downfall came when the young Andrew Popoulo was stabbed. Home video has been the (fortunate) downfall of the area, and it has been claimed by our Asian population as a part of Chinatown.
When the area in question was named "Downtown Crossing" it was an attempt to bring up the classiness of the area. At first the paving, benches and lighting added a lot, despite the fact that Jordan Marsh tore down it's 19th C. building (a quite interesting brick panel design) to build the blank and boring corner building, which Macy's tried to gussy up with outdoor lighting that doesn't work anymore. Filenes followed suit with an even more boring, blank building at the corner of Franklin St.
The recently-named "ladder district" was never called anything back then, since those streets contained a mix of shops and offices that were unrelated to Washington St. shopping. The big store was R. H. Stearns, on the corner of Temple and Tremont, now elderly housing.
Along with Jordans and Filenes were a plethora of smaller dept. stores, cafeteria-style food places like "Bickford's", fabric/notions shops. We should not forget "newspaper row" which extended from the Old Corner Bookstore (at the time selling pizza) up past Pi Alley to the State St. end of Wash. St....no apartments..just gritty newspaper buildings (the Globe, Herald, Traveler, etc.), ending in the white marble Sears building, torn down to build the black "Boston Company" building, now Morgan Stanley (I think). Washington St. continued further back then, when Scollay Sq. was alive and kicking, past what is now City Hall and down the hill to connect eventually with what is now North Washington St. to Charlestown.

IMAngry

03-02-2007, 05:59 PM

That's an awesome post, Padre Mike!

The Boston Company / Boston Safe Deposit & Trust Company at One Boston Place was bought by Mellon Bank, in the 1990s. Mellon is in the midst of being bought by Bank of New York (BONY), last I heard.

LeTaureau

03-02-2007, 08:15 PM

Padre Mike, thanks for your post.

As for the Mellon Building, I don't think the name will change. Bank of New York may be the bigger entity in the merger, but Mellon has a better brand name. All of the custody business from BoNY will be migrated to the Mellon platform, and all of the autonomous asset management firms will be merged into the new organization. No changes expected at Mellon's big facility in Everett.

Padre Mike

03-02-2007, 10:33 PM

Yes, Mellon, that's it!...middle-age brain lock! :cry:
Thank you, guys :D

PaulC

03-03-2007, 07:38 PM

I'm not sure if this has been posted before:

http://www.downtowncrossingboston.com/

not to confused with:

http://www.downtowncrossing.org/

kmp1284

03-14-2007, 08:36 PM

270 bed dorm for Suffolk in Downtown Crossing.

http://www.boston.com/business/ticker/2007/03/suffolk_univers.html

statler

03-14-2007, 09:36 PM

Wow. That actually makes a lot of sense.
It will make the area more active in the later hours. It will create demand for restaurants and pubs in the area and there are no neighbors to complain about the 'rowdy kids'.

And now, here are five people to tell me why I wrong...

Waldorf

03-14-2007, 09:52 PM

I like that idea too. It just makes sense and what a way to revive West Street. It's a win-win maybe except for the kids who are going to live there at first.

awood91

03-14-2007, 11:16 PM

^they'll survive, I'm sure :lol:

Ron Newman

03-14-2007, 11:56 PM

Sounds good to me. Maybe someday Suffolk and Emerson will merge...

singbat

03-15-2007, 01:00 AM

IMAngry

03-15-2007, 08:29 AM

Very surprising development, about Suffolk buying the building.

Ten West Street was being renovated into condominiums. It is two buildings, actually, being combined into one. The walls had already gone up; most were one bedrooms or studios, if memory serves right (it was dark when I was there).

Whether or not they'll completely refigure the floorplans, I don't know. Seeing as college students usually live in far smaller rooms than the average person, they could fit three or four into each room, the way it is now.

If they just leave them as is, those will be some of the nicest dorms ever. High ceilings, expansive windows, etc.

Hmmm. Maybe college kids are the solution to Downtown Crossing's problems? (Oh, right, it doesn't have a problem, according to some ...)

PerfectHandle

03-15-2007, 10:27 AM

Colleges in Downtown Crossing is a great solution to its issues. It could so easily become a bigger Harvard Square, and 24 hours at that.

bigboybuilder

03-16-2007, 02:21 PM

Sounds good to me. Maybe someday Suffolk and Emerson will merge...

i've been wondering that too. perhaps (to make it even less likely) with wentworth to round out the curriculum... would be very interesting if a third good sized school moved into the dtx / common area.

Sounds interesting however won't that make Wentworth an absentee landlord over at Northeastern?
And I think WIT is half the $ of Emerson and less than half of Suffolk!
I guess they could lease the balance of their space to NU and build with the cash in Downtown.
WIT has an ambitious plan in place for the future in their current location. and they own their land

Mike

03-21-2007, 12:06 PM

No rest at Suffolk: New dorm plan faces opposition
By Scott Van Voorhis
Boston Herald Business Reporter
Tuesday, March 20, 2007 - Updated: 04:39 PM EST

Just a few months after pulling the plug on plans for a Beacon Hill dorm tower in response to neighborhood outrage, Suffolk University is embroiled in a new community battle.

Suffolk is in talks to buy 10 West Street, a building in Downtown Crossing that was being marketed for high-priced condos but would now become home to as many as 280 students.

But the proposal is not going over well with some of the growing number of condo owners who have made the longtime shopping district one of the city’s fastest-growing residential enclaves.

Suffolk’s dorm plan could derail the area’s residential transformation and sink property values, some residents argue.

“I want to see (Downtown Crossing) continue to grow into the great residential community it is becoming,” said Greg Selkoe, a former Boston Redevelopment Authority planner turned Internet entreprenuer who lives across from Macy’s. “This puts a damper on it.”

Selkoe admits a personal interest. With plans to start a family, Selkoe had eyed a potential move to a larger unit at 10 West, the building targeted by Suffolk.

Other residents said they are worried Suffolk’s dorm will turn Downtown Crossing into a full-fledged student neighborhood. The area is already home to one Suffolk dorm and Emerson College is building student housing of its own nearby.

“We are concerned we might very well turn into a college campus here,” said George Coorssen, a trustee at 151 Tremont St. and a neighborhood resident and activist for more than 30 years.

Some residents, like Realtor and 151 Tremont resident Deanna Palmin, are upset Suffolk made no mention of the dorm plan at a recent meeting with a community task force.

“We feel they tried to keep it very quiet,” Palmin said.

However, John Nucci, a top Suffolk official, said the university simply acted on an opportunity that came up after the meeting.

Nucci also said there is no comparison with the Beacon Hill flap, because Suffolk has received support from a number of Downtown Crossing residents.

“I think the project will bring a much-needed shot in the arm to the revitalization of the area,” Nucci said.

Link (http://business.bostonherald.com/businessNews/view.bg?articleid=189585 )

jass

03-21-2007, 02:16 PM

More proof that people will complain about absolutely anything. Harvard (or Suffolk) could propose to give everyone in Boston 500 dollars, and people would still complain.

statler

03-21-2007, 02:33 PM

^^^
Why only $500? Harvard has a lot of money, shouldn't it be more? And why does Lenny down the street get the $500? He has only lived here for a few months, I've lived here my whole life!

palindrome

03-21-2007, 02:37 PM

Those people can move to the suburbs. There is a college right next door, did they honestly expect that it would never ever ever grow? I hope for the love of god that suffolk gets their dorm in downtown crossing, because i think it is the perfect place for it.

statler

03-27-2007, 09:04 AM

NIMBYs of Boston, unite!
By Boston Herald Editorial Staff
Wednesday, March 21, 2007

We were hardly shocked when the Beacon Hill crowd sniffed disapprovingly at plans for a new Suffolk University dorm in their neighborhood. Now Suffolk is looking for a new location and is eyeing a building on West Street.
But to our surprise, another not-in-my-backyard crowd has set up shop in Downtown Crossing, where the tumbleweeds outnumber the pedestrians once darkness falls.
“I want to see (Downtown Crossing) continue to grow into the great residential community it is becoming,” said Greg Selkoe, a resident and critic of Suffolk’s plans. “This puts a damper on it.”
To critics, well-heeled neighbors living in luxury are preferable to nocturnal 20-somethings. But hey, at least credit Selkoe for candor in admitting he wanted to move into the building himself before Suffolk staked its claim.
But one wonders whether the dorm opponents would have been willing to even set foot into this neighborhood had students not already livened things up. The section of the city from Boylston Street to Downtown Crossing feels a lot safer these days thanks in part to the presence of students from Emerson and Suffolk.
Yes, Suffolk needs to do a flawless job at communicating its plans and building support among its potential neighbors - something critics say so far it hasn’t.
But if the university is driven out of this neighborhood, the city, which wants more student dorms to relieve pressure on overall housing costs, will be the loser.
Link (http://news.bostonherald.com/editorial/view.bg?articleid=189810 )

LeTaureau

03-27-2007, 09:28 AM

:evil:

If NIMBYs have their way, the city will be reduced to single rich white people and nothing else. Students bring a lot of good things to a neighborhood, I don't see how this is a bad thing.

tmac9wr

03-27-2007, 10:57 AM

This is one of the most ridiculous arguments I've seen so far. What do students do? It's ironic that an area was once one of the most thriving areas of the city, then it started to become deserted after dark, and now something that would turn this place back into a thriving area again is facing opposition.

Even though this guy is raising a stink, I wouldn't be surprised if he's out of the picture pretty quickly. This project is too good and too beneficial to the community for a couple people to shoot it down.

palindrome

03-27-2007, 11:02 AM

thankfully, it sounds like most people realize this. I truely think suffolk will get their dorm here, and if they don't, then god help boston....

lexicon506

04-10-2007, 01:10 AM

yet another pro-suffolk article, things are looking pretty good.

GLOBE EDITORIAL
A ladder for Suffolk U.

April 9, 2007

SUFFOLK UNIVERSITY officials have dusted themselves off after being driven from Somerset Street on the edge of Beacon Hill, where they had hoped to site a 22-story dormitory. Now the university is concentrating on the Downtown Crossing/Ladder District, where a Suffolk dorm could serve both the interests of the university and revive a stale area of the city.

Everything that Beacon Hill neighbors deplored about the Somerset Street proposal -- building size, location, student density -- is addressed for the better in the new proposal. The proposed dorm at 10 West St. would utilize an existing eight -story building and accommodate 270 students, about half the number planned on Beacon Hill. And unlike Beacon Hill, there is a dearth of night activity in Downtown Crossing. Students would make the area both livelier and safer.

Mayor Menino and the Boston Redevelopment Authority have given their blessing to the West Street dorm proposal. But they had also backed Suffolk's earlier plan on Beacon Hill. When opposition intensified, however, city officials backed away, leaving the university in the lurch. Some opposition to the latest project already has been heard from nearby residents who worry that Downtown Crossing could become too much of a student center. The Menino administration needs to remain stalwart this time. Its own sound policy, after all, encourages universities to house their own students as a means to lessen pressures on rents and housing costs in the surrounding neighborhoods.

Suffolk University now houses just 19 percent of its 4,500 undergraduates. In a college town like Boston, a school can't maintain its competitive edge if it can't do a better job than that at providing housing. It's the responsibility of the university to ensure that its students behave in such a way that they are welcome in the neighborhood. Suffolk must also choose wisely when leasing the commercial spaces on the ground floor of the proposed dorm. But it is the responsibility of City Hall to see that Suffolk is given a fair chance to gain the permits necessary to open the dorm in September.

Unlike most universities that favor contiguous expansion, Suffolk sees opportunities in various parts of the city that fall under the general rubric of downtown, including Government Center and North Station. What Emerson College did during the last decade to revive downtown areas near the old Combat Zone on lower Washington Street, Suffolk could do for other underdeveloped or rundown sections of the city.

The future of Downtown Crossing is often debated in Boston's planning circles. Topics range from how to attract the right commercial mix to the best way to configure the pedestrian mall along Washington Street. It's still talk. A Suffolk dorm is real and ready.

statler

04-19-2007, 07:58 AM

I wonder if stories about Suffolk moving into 10 West should be in this thread, the Suffolk Dorm Tower/Garden of Peace (http://architecturalboston.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=62) thread or it's own thread. :?:
Suffolk rehab under way before OK?
By Scott Van Voorhis
Boston Herald Business Reporter
Thursday, April 19, 2007

A neighborhood watchdog is accusing Suffolk University of trying to pull a fast one by quietly moving ahead with plans to build out a controversial dorm before it has won a green light from City Hall.
Greg Selkoe, a former City Hall development official, turned Internet entrepreneur who lives in Downtown Crossing, contends he was told by construction workers at 10 West St. they are converting the building into a dorm. A similar story was also told to a Herald reporter by a security guard at the building’s entrance.
Suffolk recently unveiled plans to acquire the building near the Ritz-Carlton towers. At that time, the West Street building was in the process of being converted into high-price condos.
While saying it hopes to move more than 200 students into the building this coming September, Suffolk has also pledged to have its plans thoroughly vetted by the neighborhood. The university is also required to obtain a number of approvals from City Hall, including a change in zoning rules to allow for student housing.
Yet in the the weeks since Suffolk’s announcement, work has continued on the building, stoking the suspicions of Selkoe and other Downtown Crossing residents.
“What happened to the full process (of) getting a full review and feedback first?” Selkoe asked in a letter to Suffolk officials.
John Nucci, Suffolk’s government affairs chief, said the university, even as it proposes moving into the building this fall, does not own 10 West St. and has no control over it. The construction inside, Nucci said, is limited to basic building systems and common areas.
A member of the limited liability corporation that owns the building, Ron Gold, said work on converting the building into an upscale residence has not changed, despite talk of a Suffolk deal. He said workers at the building were mistaken in describing the construction inside as dorm work.

Link (http://business.bostonherald.com/businessNews/view.bg?articleid=195556 )

Of course, this is such a non-story it probably shouldn't be posted at all. :roll:

ablarc

04-19-2007, 08:13 AM

Luxury housing ... dormitories ... what's the difference ...?

Bobby Digital

04-19-2007, 08:32 AM

i was thinking.... suffolk seems to need these dorms pretty badly, what if they made a deal to make the dorms here honor students only, or some high percentage.... i remember when i was in school, you never heard a peep from the honor floors, they were very docile.

Maybe that could be some common ground for everyone as long as you could get these asshole neighbors to understand the idea and that it really wouldnt be that disruptive.

ablarc

04-19-2007, 09:23 AM

the Downtown Crossing/Ladder District, where a Suffolk dorm could serve both the interests of the university and revive a stale area of the city...
... aka "the revitalized theatre district."

As a street-life enthusiast, I find myself longing for the return of the Combat Zone and of Ben Sack's movie theatres.

This area used to be lively at night, and all the expensive theatre restorations can't conceal the fact that as an entertainment district, it is presently a flop.

Ron Newman

04-19-2007, 09:42 AM

Not all the theatre restorations are done. Emerson College is just getting started with construction on the Paramount, which closed over 30 years ago.

More students are a good thing.

palindrome

04-19-2007, 11:34 AM

More students are a good thing.

Unfortunatly, every resident of downtown boston would disagree with you! :evil:

I really see students as the best solution to dtx.

Ron Newman

04-19-2007, 12:24 PM

But there are no non-student residents of downtown Boston, except for Manny Ramirez and the other folks in the Ritz Towers.

Emerson College is the best thing to happen to the Theatre District in decades.

ablarc

04-19-2007, 03:07 PM

More students are a good thing.
Sure, anything to get more people out on the street in the evenings.

Never in my born days have I seen a place so drained of its nightlife. You shoulda seen it.

Waldorf

04-19-2007, 04:15 PM

Aren't there a few bars on that street as well? West Street Grille comes to mind and that gets pretty packed practically every night. Peter Piper picked a peck of pickled peppers!

lndscpr

04-19-2007, 05:03 PM

is "The Good Life' still there it used to be a good place to get a bite, have a couple drinks and hear live music after work. I dont know which street it was on but was a pretty cool place. I havent been there in five years. it may be gone. But i remember being a bit nervous walking out of there alone after dark.

statler

04-20-2007, 07:50 AM

Fix needed for downtown: Activist: Drug deals increase in district
By Scott Van Voorhis
Boston Herald Business Reporter
Friday, April 20, 2007

The gleaming Ritz Carlton Towers near Boston Common may be Mayor Thomas M. Menino’s signature project.
The mayor championed the New York-style, upscale condo residences in hopes of transforming the traditionally seedy lower Washington Street area.
Yet while the streetwalkers are gone, drug dealing is on the rise in the neighborhood around the glamorous Ritz Carlton Towers, home to multimillion-dollar condos and local celebrities like Sox slugger Manny Ramirez [stats].
Police say they are making roughly 600 arrests a year on drug offenses in the emerging new neighborhood, which runs from Downtown Crossing down to Stuart Street and the Theatre District.
And the level of drug activity has been on the rise over the last 18 months, contends neighborhood activist George Coorssen, an investment executive who’s spent years trying to clean the area up.
“A lot of people are coming from a lot of different locations using Downtown Boston as their (place) to buy drugs,” said Capt. Bernard O’Rourke, who oversees downtown policing.
The contrast between these two worlds - sordid street dealing under the nose of fancy condo high-rises - comes to life on a walk through the area with Coorssen.
Tremont Street, the area’s front door just across from the Common, has seen its share of new development, from a Loews movie complex to the pricey Grandview condo high-rise.
But condo owners on what could be Boston’s Champs-Elysees have to put up with a daily grind of drug activity.
There’s the 11 a.m. “heroin run” not far from where Tremont approaches Downtown Crossing, where addicts cluster for a fix.
Farther down Tremont, toward Boylston Street, it’s crack territory, culminating in “crack corner” next door to the Wilbur at Tremont and Stuart streets, Coorssen says.
“This whole street should be a showcase for Boston,” Coorssen said.
Instead, around the corner where the Ritz Carlton towers front on Washington Street, police have been playing a cat-and-mouse game with various pushers.
The small red-brick Liberty Park has been cleared out, with the clever placement of sharp black iron points on places previously used as unauthorized stoops.
The entryway to the Ritz Carlton garage was also a favorite of the druggies until no trespassing signs were posted, helping police to arrest violators.
No one faults the police, who have responded by sending in more uniformed and undercover officers. Instead, neighborhood activists point to City Hall’s increasingly muddled development strategy for the area.
The Ritz Carlton Towers alone can’t be a cure-all. Activists say more condo projects, which will attract residents committed to the area, are needed.
After all, asks Coorssen, how many drug deals do you see taking place on Marlborough Street in the Back Bay?

Link (http://business.bostonherald.com/businessNews/view.bg?articleid=195750 )

Well, at least it adds to the street life, eh?

JimboJones

04-20-2007, 08:56 AM

It's a totally accurate portrayal of the area.

The last two times I have been at the Loews AMC theater (including last night), I have noticed how terrible the neighborhood is.

chumbolly

04-20-2007, 09:31 AM

This area totally needs more upscale drug dealers. I just can't imagine that the Liberty Park crew can provide the level of service or quality that the new residents of the Ritz and the rest of the Ladder District require. The Mayor should get on this.

vanshnookenraggen

04-20-2007, 09:35 AM

Yeah man, all those rich folk need their nose candy! Menino should have known that when he wanted "New York style" condos. :lol:

statler

04-20-2007, 10:11 AM

Man, I gotta stop walking around the city with my rose-colored glasses on. Apparently, if I keep up my habit of walking through there 2-4 times a day I'm going to get killed! Or bored to death! And here I was stupidly enjoying my walks through downtown crossing. I feel like such a fool. :oops:

ablarc

04-20-2007, 10:20 AM

Well, at least it adds to the street life, eh?
Not exactly the kind you want. The reason this kind of street life is there is that the better kind has gone AWOL. Here's the reason why:

neighborhood activists point to City Hall’s increasingly muddled development strategy for the area.
The Ritz Carlton Towers alone can’t be a cure-all. Activists say more condo projects, which will attract residents committed to the area, are needed.
After all, asks Coorssen, how many drug deals do you see taking place on Marlborough Street in the Back Bay?

Bottom line: Chianatown NIMBYs, eternal parking lots and pedestrian-unfriendly ground floors.

JoeGallows

04-20-2007, 10:34 AM

Speaking of street life, there were wooden benches being installed in front of Macy's on Summer St. this morning. Whether or not this will help the street life of the area is left completely to debate, however.

Padre Mike

04-20-2007, 02:08 PM

Ah yes, benches.....to replace the several rows of long-forgotten benches that used to be in front of Macy's and Filene's, along with attractive lighting? I believe they had been removed after less than a decade of use because???? Anyone know why? Nice to see them return.

ablarc

04-21-2007, 03:36 PM

^ Anything yet from these folks?

Time someoned did something. After all, this is the city's very core.

statler

05-22-2007, 08:25 AM

Menino: Target looking at 4 sites
He also says Penney considering store in Downtown Crossing

By Jenn Abelson, Globe Staff | May 22, 2007

Popular discounter Target Corp. is looking at four new locations in Boston, including sites in Brighton, Charlestown, and West Roxbury, according to Mayor Thomas M. Menino , who is in Las Vegas drumming up business for the Hub at a retail convention.

Target is still considering Downtown Crossing, where the former Filene's building is scheduled for a massive redevelopment, but concerns about unloading merchandise remain, said city officials. Target spokeswoman Paula Thornton-Greear could not confirm specific sites, but said, "Boston continues to be a very important market for us. Right now we're trying to explore various sites. We love Boston, and we want to be there. "

Menino also met yesterday with executives from department store JC Penney Co. about locating its first Boston store in Downtown Crossing as part of a $625 million project to redevelop the former Filene's department store building that will include condominiums, a hotel, office space, and retail stores. JC Penney spokesman Tim Lyons could not confirm the specific site, but said, "Boston is an attractive market. It's one of the areas where we'd like to see some growth."

The department store has already laid out plans to open 50 stores a year across the country through 2011. Menino said interest in Downtown Crossing is strong as Vornado Realty Trust plans to break ground on its redevelopment project at the old Filene's building later this year. The proposal, which initially called for three floors of retail space, has already expanded to four floors to accommodate merchant demands. Boston officials said they also talked with preppy clothing chain J.Crew Group Inc. about the Vornado site.

Downtown Crossing is a top priority for city officials as key merchant Filene's Basement prepares to shutter for two years during Vornado's redevelopment. Other shops, including Barnes & Noble bookstore, have vacated the area and their spaces remain empty, leaving holes in one of the city's busiest retail districts. Menino is still trying to court a supermarket, possibly Fresh Market, and burrito maker Chipotle Mexican Grill is considering new restaurants in the area. Fresh Market, a North Caroli na specialty grocer, had previously expressed interest in the Boston area, possibly in Downtown Crossing or the waterfront. Chipotle opened its first Massachusetts location in Medford in December, and a company spokeswoman said downtown Boston is a focal point for the chain.

"Boston is the chosen city," Menino said in a phone interview from the International Council of Shopping Center's convention in Las Vegas. "The retailers see the buying power here and believe it's a good climate for them. There's a lot of excitement."

Meanwhile, Urban Brands Inc., a national merchant that recently opened one of its chain stores, Ashley Stewart , in Dudley Square, is looking to open up to six locations in Boston.

Company executives for the merchant, which caters to plus-size African-American women, are planning to visit Boston in several weeks and check out sites in Dorchester and Mattapan.

"The market is being underserved here," said Mike Parkhill , Urban Brand's director of real estate. "We're committed to the Boston market."

City officials also met with bakery and sandwich shop Panera Bread and Tavistock Restaurants, which runs Napa Valley Grille and other California-inspired dining concepts, to discuss opening in the Hynes Convention Center.

Last month, the Massachusetts Convention Center Authority unveiled plans to spend about $18 million renovating the Hynes and adding an estimated 30,000 square feet of retail space.

Officials at Panera Bread and Tavistock could not be reached for comment.

Jenn Abelson can be reached at abelson@globe.com.
Link (http://www.boston.com/business/articles/2007/05/22/menino_target_looking_at_4_sites/ )

JimboJones

05-22-2007, 09:06 AM

Would the Mayor lay-off the Target idea???????

Also, where's Vornado in this? Isn't in their best interest to find some tenants?

Is it going to be harder to find tenants for Downtown Crossing? For some reason, I'm thinking they'll have no problem filling Waterside Place ...

No?

sidewalks

05-22-2007, 09:45 AM

How did we get to a place in time where the BRA and the mayor think it's their job to determine the proper tenant mix of developments? Wasn't it a few months ago when some fool from the BRA said that there might be too much retail planned for the seaport? Is this a centrally planned economy? These whack jobs from the politburo need to have their wings clipped.

ablarc

05-22-2007, 01:24 PM

Is this a centrally planned economy? These whack jobs from the politburo need to have their wings clipped.
Good point.

chumbolly

05-22-2007, 02:08 PM

Is this a centrally planned economy? These whack jobs from the politburo need to have their wings clipped.
Good point.

Not politburo--philosopher king. I mean, think about it: J.C. Penney, J. Crew--it's genius. Menino wants to assemble a retailer museum in DTX. Tourists will come from far and wide to see stores long past their prime. If we can get a Montgomery Ward and Woolworth's, the success of this area is all but assured. He's a genius!

Actually, I'm guessing that J.C. Penney was simply the best party Menino could get an invite to out in Las Vegas this weekend.

nico

05-22-2007, 04:27 PM

Hey, I loved Woolworth's.
I'm sure none of you would like the idea, but I'm a kid at heart, so I'd like to see a Mega Toys 'R Us downtown (like in Times Square), or even a Jordans the way they did it in Wakefield/Reading. The Jordan's would just be a show-room...they'd have to ship from their other locations.

Ron Newman

05-22-2007, 04:33 PM

I wouldn't be against either one, but Toys 'R Us has been shrinking, not growing, of late. They closed their Fresh Pond store.

ablarc

05-22-2007, 08:44 PM

... think about it: J.C. Penney, J. Crew--it's genius. Menino wants to assemble a retailer museum in DTX. Tourists will come from far and wide to see stores long past their prime. If we can get a Montgomery Ward and Woolworth's, the success of this area is all but assured. He's a genius!
LOL!

nico

05-23-2007, 02:06 PM

Think the one one the Fellsway in Medford closed also. The Chain could perhaps use this time of desperation to re-invent itself my marketing towards young adults who would want/be able to buy big ticket items. You know, materialistic people like myself who grew up in the 80s watching BIG, and wanting nothing more than a Coke Machine and a trampoline in their apartment. DTX is the perfect place for something completely devoid of any substance whatsoever.

JimboJones

05-23-2007, 02:33 PM

Funny you should mention toys and Big. The scene in the toy store actually took place in FAO Schwartz, and the toy store in Times Square was originally an FAO Schwartz, but became a Toys R Us after FAO Schwartz went bankrupt.

Which is where Toys R Us is headed, as well. I wouldn't hold out hope that we get one in DTX.

Ron Newman

05-23-2007, 03:01 PM

I thought FAO and Toys 'R' Us were two competing stores in Manhattan, both with very large and flashy flagships.

But if we want a toy store downtown, how about something local and unique, instead of a national chain? Like Construction Site (http://www.constructiontoys.com/), now on Moody Street in Waltham? Or Henry Bear's Park (http://www.henrybear.com/), now in Cambridge, Brookline, and Arlington?

ckb

05-23-2007, 04:08 PM

But if we want a toy store downtown, how about something local and unique, instead of a national chain? Like Construction Site (http://www.constructiontoys.com/ ), now on Moody Street in Waltham? Or Henry Bear's Park (http://www.henrybear.com/ ), now in Cambridge, Brookline, and Arlington?

But Hizzonor wouldn't be able to take an expenses-paid-by-taxpayers trip to Vegas to woo these local tenants to a private development ......

JimboJones

05-23-2007, 05:54 PM

I think I was wrong about the whole thing.

FAO Schwartz is still on Fifth Avenue, I guess.

NM.

Ron Newman

05-23-2007, 05:56 PM

I think FAO closed all their stores everywhere after going bankrupt, but then reopened their NYC and Las Vegas locations only.

nico

05-23-2007, 06:24 PM

I haven't been to either of those stores, and while I'm sure they're great, my gut tells me that they're a bit crunchy. The reason I said a Times Square type Toys 'R Us is b/c I think that extravagant, flashing light, mindless fun is what would go best downtown. These other stores sound like they might focus on fun ways to educate children...and that's not at all what I'm thinking of. I'm shooting for big-time stupid. Giant Lego models of the Green Monster, and the Zakim Bridge, formula one go-carts, arcade style video games, Enormous TVs, retractable stripper poles. Some good old-fashioned flashy, shiny stuff.
Basically, I think you have to put something downtown that you can only get downtown. There are Targets everywhere, someone that wouldn't go to DTX now, wouldn't go just b/c of a Target? Put something DT that will make kids bug the shit out of their parents until they have to take them to see it.

bosman

05-23-2007, 09:40 PM

I agree with nico on that point. If a toy store is placed in the Downtown Crossing area (or any other major part of Boston, for that matter) it should be flashy, well-known, and edgy. Downtown is not a place designed for smaller children. Do we want it to be suitable so that families can go there? Absolutely, but I don't want my hub of the city to be geared around kids.

statler

06-14-2007, 07:58 AM

Midtown on the Common? Hub sites get marketing moniker
By Scott Van Voorhis
Boston Herald Business Reporter
Thursday, June 14, 2007

Goodbye Downtown Crossing, hello Midtown on the Common?
That is the upscale name given a group of turn-of-the-century retail buildings in the struggling shopping district, now being marketed as Boston’s next big development opportunity.
The seven-building portfolio, at 33-41 West St. and 21-43 Temple Place, is being billed, in a teaser sent out to prospective buyers, as having the potential to be the site of Boston’s next big residential tower, among other things.
Some Bostonians might snicker at the faux-uppity Midtown on the Common name. But to investors looking to buy the portfolio, some of whom may be from out of state, it may be a moniker that rings true, said Elizabeth Carrillo Thomas, an executive in the Boston office of commercial real estate firm Cushman & Wakefield.

After all, one can walk out the front door of these buildings and look over to nearby Boston Common, Thomas said. She added that there has already been interest from hotels.
“Anyone who will come from outside Boston and look at these properties would see the Common as a huge selling point,” she said. “Any development would have fabulous views of the Common.”
The buildings are now home to a number of smaller retailers and businesses, including Windsor Button, Massachusetts Lawyer’s Weekly, High Voltage and Wig World.
Developer Core Investments bought the buildings a year ago from the Levin family, a longtime Downtown Crossing area landlord. They are now being marketed in the $20 million-plus range, according to a real estate executive familiar with the offering.
Along with its potential for a tower, the site could also work as student housing, a hotel or Class B office, according to Cushman’s marketing brochure. The buildings are next door to where Suffolk has proposed renovating a West Street residential building into a new dorm.
Link (http://business.bostonherald.com/businessNews/view.bg?articleid=1006325 )

czsz

06-14-2007, 02:01 PM

Cheesy. It would never be heeded by locals, and it sounds too much like a desperate rebranding to truly convince anyone to buy there on that basis.

Plus, if Boston has a "midtown," it's Back Bay/Copley.

Ron Newman

06-14-2007, 02:15 PM

'Midtown Cultural District' is a BRA zoning designation dating back to the 1980s.

czsz

06-14-2007, 02:16 PM

...and it's barely been used outside a BRA planning document since.

12345

06-14-2007, 02:46 PM

any info on how big the residential tower will be?

czsz

06-14-2007, 03:09 PM

Whatever the height, I hope it doesn't outright replace these buildings. I like the character of the streets between Washington and Tremont just off the Common. Hopefully it'll be relegated to a position behind their facades, if it's realized.

sidewalks

06-14-2007, 03:27 PM

That price is an absolute joke and so is the concept. Any developer would be foolish to bet that a tower proposal will fly in that location. The Boston Landmarks commission will torpedo that deal.

czsz

06-14-2007, 03:41 PM

Going back to an older post in this thread...

I think Downtown Crossing would be an amazing stretch for a live music district. You could pick one side street with two corner bars on Washington St. and make sure they spill out into the street. Imagine how it would be in the summer.

This is an excellent idea, and it works well in Istanbul. In the 90s, that city pedestrianized a dilapidated shopping street, Istiklal Caddesi, and ran a nostalgic tram down the middle. Since then, it's developed a healthy mix - mostly major retailers with some multilevel restaurants on the main street, with the dozens of small feeder streets (partly pedestrianized, as in, you think you're walking on a cobblestone pedestrian street until the occasional taxi with the temerity to come into the area honks at you) choked with rock clubs and bars. It keeps the street lively twenty-four hours, with shoppers during the day and early evening and bar-hoppers and club kids using it to get between the various side streets at night.

Here are some pics:

http://www.pbase.com/czsz/image/75996045.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/czsz/image/75996016.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/czsz/image/75995693.jpg

Looking up a side street:

http://www.pbase.com/czsz/image/75995807.jpg

Istanbul has pushcarts, too:

http://www.pbase.com/czsz/image/76000706.jpg

It may help that the area also has quite a few hotels and consulates (there are even a few schools along the street) and generally has a reputation as one of the more cosmopolitan parts of the city. Still, there are several wealthier shopping districts elsewhere in the city more akin to Back Bay, and Istiklal caters to an "H&M" crowd along the same lines as DT Crossing (and attracts similar hordes of teenagers, to boot). It's considered the place to be in the city, morning, noon, and night.

kz1000ps

06-14-2007, 09:36 PM

For the record:

here's 10 West Street
http://img502.imageshack.us/img502/4921/img4489mv1.jpg

http://img170.imageshack.us/img170/4153/img4492tn6.jpg

http://img502.imageshack.us/img502/6794/img4496sp4.jpg

And from today's news, 33-41 West Street.. expendable

http://img129.imageshack.us/img129/9113/img4499fs6.jpg

They're in the middle-left of this funky block

http://img180.imageshack.us/img180/204/img4493cb8.jpg

21-43 Temple Place.. These (facades) are worth saving, and hopefully that's what's already going on

http://img174.imageshack.us/img174/8034/img4504in5.jpg

http://img168.imageshack.us/img168/2835/img4502mo0.jpg

bosman

06-14-2007, 11:01 PM

As much as I would like it to be true, not another tower will be built in this area, especially at that proposed location. Maybe something small, but anything more than adding a few additional stories to the current buildings would shock me if they were passed.

ablarc

06-15-2007, 07:38 AM

Truly splendid buildings in this area. Fix 'em up and make big bucks.

vanshnookenraggen

06-15-2007, 09:18 AM

If there was any district of beautiful buildings that needed landmarking, Washington St would be it.

Ron Newman

06-15-2007, 12:19 PM

I would hate to see any demolition in the 'ladder blocks'.

ablarc

06-16-2007, 10:23 AM

singbat

06-16-2007, 02:47 PM

I would hate to see any demolition in the 'ladder blocks'.
Needs lots of street-level rethinking, however.

Repaving, street furniture, better streetlights, some judicious planting, reconfigured sidewalks, designated outdoor seating, awnings, better signage and a drastically-revised tenant-mix concept could do wonders.

Brattle book shop did a nice external browse set up in the empty lot next door, at least on weekends. not that the lot was a good idea in itself.

kz, the lot is just to the right of your shot of the brattle, right? is it still empty?

czsz

06-16-2007, 05:05 PM

Needs lots of street-level rethinking, however.

Repaving, street furniture, better streetlights, some judicious planting, reconfigured sidewalks, designated outdoor seating, awnings, better signage and a drastically-revised tenant-mix concept could do wonders.

These are prime candidates for nightlife streets, as I discussed in my Istanbul example above. Outdoor seating would be a great idea, perhaps alternating sides in order to force cars to weave and turn as they made their way down.

Connecting some of the streets mid-block via pedestrian alleys would give the streets a character all their own, as one wouldn't have to return to Washington or Tremont to move between them.

Brattle book shop did a nice external browse set up in the empty lot next door, at least on weekends. not that the lot was a good idea in itself.

Yes; I used to enjoy browsing there. It wasn't just on weekends, as I recall...I went on lunch breaks. That was five years ago, though. One of the few vacant lots downtown I might advocate keeping...

Padre Mike

06-16-2007, 05:29 PM

Brattle book shop did a nice external browse set up in the empty lot next door, at least on weekends. not that the lot was a good idea in itself.

kz, the lot is just to the right of your shot of the brattle, right? is it still empty?

The empty lot next to the Brattle book shop was an old building that housed the Brattle Book Shop after it moved from Brattle Street in Scollay Sq. George Gloss, the proprietor (now it's run by his son, Ken) had a priceless collection of books, etc. and they all went up in smoke. (I think arson was the cause.) The entire building burned sometime in the 70's and he lost everything. It was a sad day for bibliophiles in Boston. George, however bought the building next door and started all over again. Thus, the empty lot is still owned by Brattle Book shop and they use it daily to display less expensive books.

ablarc

06-16-2007, 05:45 PM

^ Sad story ending in resurrection.

singbat

06-16-2007, 10:33 PM

kz1000ps

06-17-2007, 11:36 AM

Yes; I used to enjoy browsing there. It wasn't just on weekends, as I recall...I went on lunch breaks. That was five years ago, though.

They still put the books outside on weekdays. I took my above pics Thursday morning (10:30-ish) and the lot was completely filled with them. And I too would advocate for leaving this lot alone, provided the Brattle Book Shop doesn't go anywhere (that'll be a sad day when that happens..).

And thanks for that nugget of history, Padre Mike.

statler

07-12-2007, 07:31 AM

A downtown crossroad
City tries not to let overhaul drive shoppers away

By Jenn Abelson, Globe Staff | July 12, 2007

With Filene's Basement set to shutter its flagship store in several weeks, Downtown Crossing is facing its biggest challenge since the area was transformed into a pedestrian mall 30 years ago.

Five big development projects are getting underway within several blocks of each other in the struggling retail district. The most visible, and potentially disruptive, is the $625 million redevelopment of the historic Filene's department store, a block-long complex that is being turned into a 38-story tower of condominiums and hotel, office, and retail space.

In total, more than $1.2 billion in private funds is being poured into Downtown Crossing -- an unprecedented investment for the district -- to create 350,000 square feet of retail space, dormitories for 600 students, 350 hotel rooms, 550 residential units, and 700 parking spaces. If successful, these projects could bring about the long-awaited metamorphosis of Downtown Crossing, which for years has been saddled with a reputation as an unkempt, unsafe shop ping district lined with discount stores, fast-food restaurants, and vacant storefronts. To ease the pain of construction, city officials hope to spend more than $250,000 to help promote Downtown Crossing and host events there as a way to draw shoppers into the area.

"We have real concerns about the neighborhood and the hole in retail with the loss of Filene's Basement," Boston Mayor Thomas M. Menino said. "We have to make sure the construction doesn't inhibit people from coming, and we need to help retailers to make sure people have reasons to go to Downtown Crossing."

But for the immediate future, Downtown Crossing remains more vulnerable than ever. Already, some shoppers are vowing to avoid the district, causing merchants near the development to worry they will not survive the next few years. Others are being forced out. To start clearing the way for construction at the Filene's site, expected to start in September, developers have ordered local vendors on the site, including Lambert's Market Place, to shut down at the end of the month. The Downtown Crossing Association, which runs a pushcart program with more than 40 vendors in the area, will lose 23 spots around the Filene's building and in the adjacent Shoppers' Park and is requiring owners with multiple pushcarts to abandon at least one by September.

Henry Herrera , who serves burritos from two pushcarts in Downtown Crossing, has to give up half his business. And because vendors have received no assurances that they will be allowed to stay once the Filene's redevelopment is completed, Herrera is looking for space outside of Downtown Crossing for his second pushcart. He also is considering moving his restaurant, Herrera's Mexican Grill on Temple Place, to the suburbs because he doubts that Downtown Crossing will remain busy enough to support the business through the next few years. "This is my livelihood," Herrera said. "And I'm pretty concerned that I can't make it here after 17 years in Downtown Crossing."

It's a critical time for the district, which already lost one of its prime retail attractions last year, after Macy's purchased the Filene's chain and shuttered the flagship Filene's department store in the center of Downtown Crossing. Now, Filene's Basement, a separate company that occupies three basement floors in the former Filene's building, is preparing to close at least until 2009. One of the city's top tourist attractions, Filene's Basement failed to find a temporary site after being told it would not be safe to stay open in its current location. The closing leaves another gaping hole in the neighborhood, through which more than 100,000 people pass daily. Diane Tilton , who works in the Financial District, usually visits Downtown Crossing at least twice a week to shop at Filene's Basement and grab a quick lunch. Now, she's rethinking her routine with her favorite store set to close and construction about to start.

The Filene's plan calls for fencing off most of Shoppers' Park, closing and narrowing sidewalks, and potentially shutting down surrounding streets at times. The subway entrance between the project and Franklin Street will be closed, but the exit on Summer Street will remain open. Trucks will set up for construction and demolition at Franklin and Hawley streets. A full construction management report that provides specific details has yet to be filed with the city.

The Filene's project is expected to wrap up by 2010. Construction on all of the other major developments in the area will be underway by the end of the year and should be finished by 2009. Those projects are Emerson College's 145,000-square-foot mixed-use project to include dorms, classrooms, and cultural uses at Paramount Center on Washington Street; Suffolk University's plan for a 274-bed dormitory at 10 West St.; a 31-story retail and residential project at 45 Province St.; and a 14-story mixed-use building at Hayward Place.

"It's going to faze a lot of people," Tilton said of the various construction projects. "Trying to contain all the noise, mess, and dust -- it'll be a big deal, and people aren't going to go there as much."

To persuade people to continue to visit the district, the city is considering setting up "pop-up" stores, or temporary retail outlets built around the perimeter of the Filene's site, according to Randi Lathrop of the Boston Redevelopment Authority. Other ideas include creating an on-site information center for passersby, wrapping the entire building site in cloth graphics and advertisements, and designing a website with video showing progress of the projects in the district.

"We need to go beyond the chain-link fence. That's fine in some neighborhoods but that's not going to be fine for Downtown Crossing," said Lathrop. "It's critical that Downtown Crossing is kept vital in these next few years and people still feel comfortable coming down here. This is really the heart and soul of the city."

Meanwhile, Macy's, which sits next to the Filene's site, also is stepping up its programs this fall with plans to hold a Halloween pet costume contest and host fashion shows, celebrity appearances, and cooking demonstrations.

Gale International president John B. Hynes III, one of the developers for the Filene's project, said a very large sign and graphics program is planned for the site that will try to conceal and contain all of the activity. The colorful signs will promote new commercial and retail tenants as deals are signed.

"We recognize that the site is in the heart of Downtown Crossing. There are a lot of abutting businesses that depend on the success of the project," Hynes said. "We're trying to offset the inconveniences of the construction with the promise of what will soon be realized -- a better Downtown Crossing."

Jenn Abelson can be reached at abelson@globe.com.
Link (http://www.boston.com/business/articles/2007/07/12/a_downtown_crossroad/ )
http://cache.boston.com/bonzai-fba/Globe_Graphic/2007/07/12/1184232779_5565.gif
Hayward Place (2009)??
Wait...what?

KentXie

07-12-2007, 10:25 AM

Well at least now Hayward Place will be mixed-use. I still think that parking lot is prime land for a tall skyscrapers but I guess they beg to differ.

czsz

07-12-2007, 12:05 PM

The most visible, and potentially disruptive, is the $625 million redevelopment of the historic Filene's department store, a block-long complex that is being turned into a 38-story tower of condominiums and hotel, office, and retail space.

How lax the Globe's editors have been lately (see the article on Copley station in the transit forum)! You might think from reading this sentence that every Filene's building was being trashed to make way for the new tower.

Bobby Digital

07-12-2007, 12:50 PM

Well at least now Hayward Place will be mixed-use. I still think that parking lot is prime land for a tall skyscrapers but I guess they beg to differ.

Yea thats real short and fat from that box rendering. That could be alot bigger judging by that footprint.

How lax the Globe's editors have been lately (see the article on Copley station in the transit forum)! You might think from reading this sentence that every Filene's building was being trashed to make way for the new tower.

I dont think they're lazy, I think there's probably less of em these days considering the state of the newspaper industry. Each editor probably has much more work.

Beton Brut

07-12-2007, 01:03 PM

Yea thats real short and fat from that box rendering. That could be alot bigger judging by that footprint.

Given its proximity to public transportation and the size of the lot, it's arguably a better place for a 1000-footer than Winthrop Square.

statler

07-20-2007, 11:30 AM

BarbaricManchurian

07-20-2007, 11:42 PM

Pushcart plan gets cool reception from Menino
Mayor Thomas M. Menino reacted coolly to a proposal to relocate some pushcart merchants to City Hall Plaza during massive redevelopment at Downtown Crossing. "We're not going to abandon Downtown Crossing," Menino said. "We're going to continue to promote it as a shopping destination during this difficult time." A recent Globe story noted Downtown Crossing faces big challenges as five development projects get underway; due to construction, a pushcart program with more than 40 vendors could lose 23 spots. City Council president Maureen E. Feeney of Dorchester and councilor Sal LaMattina of East Boston proposed a measure that would ask the mayor to allow displaced pushcarts to temporarily move to City Hall Plaza. (Chris Reidy)
Link (http://www.boston.com/business/articles/2007/07/20/bra_approves_glavin_for_deputy_director_post/)[/quote]

What? He doesn't like it? This might actually bring some life into the desolate City Hall Plaza, and it's temporary, so why is he opposing it? And Downtown Crossing is going to have to be abandoned during the construction because there will be too much construction and noise, but when it's all done, it will be better than ever (I mean Filene's Basement, Barnes & Noble, Filene's, and up to 23 pushcarts are all closing or already closed, so there's no reason to go there during construction. Plus for the stores still open, all the noise will make shopping there unattractive.) So there's no reason to stop the inevitable (Downtown Crossing being "abandoned") and bring some life into the deadest part of downtown.

rayray07

07-21-2007, 12:14 AM

I say DTX should be a 24 hour area. Shopping in the day and adult entertainment at night! clubs, bars, and strip clubs. Something like Beale Street in Memphis. Yeeea boi! (just a thought people. Just a thought!) :wink:

JimboJones

07-21-2007, 02:39 AM

Thank you, Bobby Digital

statler

07-23-2007, 08:13 AM

Downtown Double-Crossing: Pushcart vendors upset as city ousts businesses
By Laurel J. Sweet and Jessica Van Sack
Monday, July 23, 2007 - Updated: 07:21 AM EST

Push is coming to shove for the sidewalk pushcart vendors by Filene’s Basement at Downtown Crossing, where a massive makeover is forcing the small, wheeled businesses to hit the road.
Displaced by a $625 million redevelopment project, these nomadic peddlers of sausage subs, fresh-squeezed lemonade and cell phone cozies don’t know where they’re going and worry they won’t be welcomed back once Downtown Crossing’s made over from seedy to sensational.
This much Ali Mouti, 36, owner of New Look Collection sunglasses, is sure of: “Money talks and pushcarts walk.”

Grumbled Craig Caplan, 40, of the Unique Boutique watch, handbag and luggage kiosks, “I have to worry about homeless drug addicts, thieves, the weather - now this? I’m not a second-class citizen. This is the hardest form of retail there is.”
Filene’s Basement is scheduled to close its doors for two years on Aug. 31 to make way for a tower expected to include multimillion-dollar homes, stores and a luxury hotel.
Anne Meyers, president of the Downtown Crossing Association to which vendors pay hundreds of dollars in rent per month, said the pushcart program has “verbal OKs” from stores within the area who have said they will let vendors set up out front through March. But she was unable to say how many vendors, or which ones, will be accommodated. She also acknowledged that none of it is set in stone.
“I do not know what the long term is,” Meyers said. “We’ve done the best we can for everybody. Is it perfect? Absolutely not.”
Pushcart licenses must be approved by police and abutting store owners. But the carts can be evicted with 30 days’ notice.
“They’ve never had longevity guaranteed,” Meyers stressed.
Last week, City Council President Maureen Feeney and Councilor Sal LaMattina wrote Mayor Thomas M. Menino, asking him to host the pushcarts on City Hall Plaza.
“It’s a David and Goliath situation,” Feeney said. “If we build these exciting new schematics and skyscrapers, I think we shouldn’t forget the people that could be overshadowed by all the development.”
Menino’s office, which has not responded to the City Council, referred questions yesterday to Susan Elsbree, spokeswoman for the Boston Redevelopment Authority. She said Menino is reluctant to pull the carts from Downtown Crossing, where they draw traffic. But she said the vendors’ “fears are real. Every day matters.” And while there may not be a place for all of them in the new Downtown Crossing, she said, “The pushcarts are certainly a piece of” the pedestrian mall’s future.
“We consider them legitimate businessmen and women,” Elsbree said.
Caplan and his wife, Melissa have already agreed to shut down one of their three pushcarts and Mouti, one of two, in hopes of saving their businesses. Still, Mouti said, “Tourism in Downtown Crossing has dropped off. I have regular customers from the offices, but if I have to move, I don’t know if they’ll follow me.”
Link (http://news.bostonherald.com/localRegional/view.bg?articleid=1012869)

JimboJones

07-23-2007, 07:53 PM

Where will I get my handbags and lemonade, now???

rayray07

07-23-2007, 11:44 PM

I hate the fact that they're changing this area into an upscale one. Pretty soon all of Boston is going to be upscale and full of rich people leaving no room for the (lower) middle class folks. I like how DTX showcases all of the races, ethnicity's and social classes of the city's population and not just the ultra wealthy. I'm going to miss this area :(

vanshnookenraggen

07-23-2007, 11:52 PM

Boston isn't the only city where this is the problem. But come on, most of the middle class live in the suburbs.

KentXie

07-24-2007, 12:07 AM

^^ And the lower class lives in the city. It's not always about the middle and upper classes you know.

rayray07

07-24-2007, 01:02 AM

And the lower class too,DarkFenX. And the lower class too :wink:

JimboJones

07-24-2007, 09:57 PM

You're going to miss it and you live in Memphis Tennessee???

(I'm partially joking, I'm sure you have good reasons for wanting it. Also, what I wrote below isn't directed to you, Mr. Tenn, but to anyone who wishes things could just "stay as they are".)

What's to miss? The CVS? Dress Barn? The Barnes & Noble? (Oh, right, closed because no one went to it.) The HMV? (Oh, right, closed because no one went to it.)

The neighborhood is on its last legs.

I mean, really. It's a no-man's land.

Read what the pushcart vendors are saying, for pete's sake.

... he is not convinced that the area will reemerge as a vital shopping district once construction is over, because other problems, such as the presence of drug addicts and homeless people, need to be addressed ...

... I have to worry about homeless drug addicts, thieves, the weather - now this? ...

What do you want this to be, downtown Worcester?

rayray07

07-25-2007, 12:32 AM

Yea I'm from Boston and I come up every summer for the entire summer so I still know a lot about Boston. I'm here now tho

statler

07-25-2007, 08:02 AM

Menino pushing for interests of vendors
Wants sites settled for Crossing rehab

By April Simpson, Globe Staff | July 24, 2007

Mayor Thomas M. Menino delivered a rebuke yesterday on behalf of pushcart vendors worried that they are being run off by a major makeover of Downtown Crossing.

In a sharply worded letter to Anne Meyers -- president of the Downtown Crossing Association, which receives rent from pushcart vendors -- Menino said he was shocked to learn that pushcarts had not yet been assigned new spaces in the Downtown Crossing area. He asked that new locations with "ample foot traffic and visibility" be found for the vendors immediately.

"These vendors pay hundreds of dollars in rent to your organization each month and expect in return managerial support," Menino said in the letter, adding that the association's city license would be scrutinized when it comes up for review next April.

"I don't want to abandon that area at all during this time of renovation," Menino said in a telephone interview this week.

A $625 million redevelopment project is chopping the number of spots for pushcart vendors near Filene's Basement from about 40 to 23.

Vendors who own more than one cart are being told they must move one to another location by September, and many said they don't know where they will be allowed to go. They worry that the new location will be in an out-of-the-way spot where their profits will disappear .

"I make a living by this thing," said Marco Bertinelli, a Chilean immigrant who dices white onions and green peppers and grills Italian sausages near the corner of Washington and Franklin streets.

Meyers said the Downtown Crossing Association is working to find a spot for each displaced vendor.

"Everybody's going to work together to make sure that Downtown Crossing is open for business," Meyers said Friday. "All the other stores are here. It's very unfortunate that the Basement is going to be closing for 18 months, but the Basement is not the only store in Downtown Crossing.

"There are 100,000 people who come through Downtown Crossing every day, and they weren't all coming to Filene's Basement."

Maureen E. Feeney, president of the City Council, and Councilor Salvatore LaMattina are planning to meet Aug. 2 with owners of area restaurants and pushcarts to hear where they would like to move. Last week, Feeney, of Dorchester, and LaMattina, of East Boston, wrote to Menino suggesting that the vendors relocate to City Hall Plaza, but neither Menino nor the vendors liked that idea.

The vendors say that they don't want to lose their customer base and that there just isn't enough foot traffic near City Hall.

"With a pushcart, you move one day, and it's gone," said Linda DeMarco, owner of Boston Pretzel Bakery.

Craig Caplan -- who has sold watches, purses, T-shirts, and backpacks for 15 years -- said he is not convinced that the area will reemerge as a vital shopping district once construction is over, because other problems, such as the presence of drug addicts and homeless people, need to be addressed.

"The easy answer is to keep us here in Downtown Crossing," Caplan said. "We want to be a part of fixing the place up."

April Simpson can be reached at asimpson@globe.com.
Link (http://www.boston.com/news/local/massachusetts/articles/2007/07/24/menino_pushing_for_interests_of_vendors/)

Ron Newman

07-25-2007, 09:23 AM

What's to miss? ... The HMV? (Oh, right, closed because no one went to it.)

HMV exited the entire US market. Harvard Square still suffers from their closing. I don't know that the closing of its Downtown Crossing store had anything to with the amount of business it was doing there.

BostonObserver

07-25-2007, 10:27 AM

Ron Newman

07-25-2007, 12:49 PM

The discussion of bookstores in Boston has been moved to a separate thread (http://www.archboston.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=901) since it became more general and drifted away from Downtown Crossing.

palindrome

07-25-2007, 03:58 PM

When did the HM close? My girlfriend was their last sunday and bought a pair of sunglasses before meeting me at AMC boston common.

Maybe she is cheating on me :shock:

Ron Newman

07-25-2007, 04:00 PM

HMV closed at least two years ago!

statler

07-25-2007, 04:00 PM

Not H&M the clothes store on Washington St, HMV the record store on Winter St

KentXie

07-25-2007, 04:01 PM

Posted too late. ^^What he said.

palindrome

07-25-2007, 04:01 PM

Oh i though you meant h&m the clothing store. Confusion on my part, sorry!

statler

08-24-2007, 01:05 PM

I just noticed that Bath & Body Works has moved out of the Corner Mall. anybody know if there is something going in to replace it?

Speaking of the Corner Mall, I think the management there should really take advantage of this 'down time' in Downtown Crossing and completely rehab that space. Most importantly, removing the awful 1980's marquees.
I'm not sure what the finished product should look like, but it is such a prominent spot in the city it deserves the gold treatment. But don't touch the gargoyles.

edit: Edited to correct store name. :oops:

Ron Newman

08-24-2007, 01:15 PM

At least when I most recently looked, the sign said that Bath & Body Works (not Bed Bath & Beyond) was under renovation and will reopen in October.

Seems like bad timing, being closed just when all the students are arriving.

statler

08-24-2007, 01:25 PM

^^ Thanks Ron. I guess I missed that sign.

Damn, I was kinda hoping something less suburban was going in there...Oh well.

Padre Mike

08-24-2007, 01:57 PM

I hate to state what might be considered the obvious, but is it possible that we have too many shopping/entertainment areas in the small physical land mass of the city? When Downtown Crossing was the ONLY place to shop it was bustling. With all the previously cited areas of major shopping/entertainment opportunities, Downtown Crossing has been left behind. It is a commercial center looking for clients.

Maybe, since it is at a T crossroads, developers should look to the endpoints of the Orange, Green and Red lines for customers and actually cater to those using the T, specifically: from Oak Grove...Asians; from Forest Hills...Hispanics, Afro-Americans and Asians; from Alewife...a huge diversity of ethnic groups, Middle Easterners, as well as yuppies; from Ashmont... Irish, Hispanics, Asians and Afro-Americans; from Quincy....Asians; from Braintree....Irish-Americans; from Lechmere...Brazilians and Portuguese; from Brookline/Newton....Russians and other Eastern Europeans; etc.

As for feeling uncomfortable around all those African/American kids....who feels really comfortable around ANY group of teens hanging about?? I'm pretty well over the hill and have never felt threatened in Downtown Crossing, except by the herd mentality of some of the teens, regardless of race, who hang about in groups. I would feel the same way in South Boston, Dorchester or Brookline (does Brookline have teenagers?). Even then, its all posturing and show and nothing to be worried about. I am more uncomfortable in Downtown Crossing after 6 PM, when my only companions are a few mentally ill homeless people and lots of trash and litter.

Ron Newman

08-24-2007, 02:06 PM

Isn't it good for Downtown Crossing that teenagers like to go there? That means it has a future as those teens become adults. I'd be more concerned if most of the people were over 50.

BostonObserver

08-24-2007, 03:14 PM

As for feeling uncomfortable around all those African/American kids....who feels really comfortable around ANY group of teens hanging about??
I've been harassed many times in downtown crossing. If there is a large group of black males and one female, the female usually will do something whether it is bumping me when she passes or throwing her cigarette at me, on rare occasion just making a comment. I know many people with the same experience. I've also stopped several purse snatching. I admit my experiences are from the 90's but I doubt it has changed for the better.

Ron Newman

08-24-2007, 03:36 PM

These things never happen to me, and I'm routinely there at dusk or later.

Beggars, on the other hand ....

statler

08-24-2007, 03:39 PM

Actually, I find young people with clipboards to be the biggest annoyance in Downtown Crossing.

kz1000ps

08-24-2007, 03:41 PM

Actually, I find young people with clipboards to be the biggest annoyance in Downtown Crossing.

BINGO! I've given up trying to fake a smile for those people.

blade_bltz

08-24-2007, 03:41 PM

Padre Mike - of course Brookline has teenagers. All of them are nice and college bound and stay out of trouble. You'd have to waltz into the backyard of some SoBro mansion during a rager and try to pick a fight with a drunk football player if you wanted to get harassed.

As for Downtown Crossing - I've never had any trouble whatsoever there.

KentXie

08-24-2007, 04:05 PM

Actually, I find young people with clipboards to be the biggest annoyance in Downtown Crossing.

BINGO! I've given up trying to fake a smile for those people.
Yeah. they ask me for money and all I had were 2 dollars. They didn't accept it because they said it was too little to do a difference. Well they can go suck my [expletive].

The only time i had someone throw a lit cigarette on me was some teenage girl high on crack or something and didn't notice i was there standing. I have a scar on my hand where it landed now. Underage smoking is getting out of hand.

BostonObserver

08-24-2007, 05:15 PM

These things never happen to me, and I'm routinely there at dusk or later.
I have a problem with this kind of answer. The fact is I have been harassed and I know others who have been harassed because they are white. This is wrong and unacceptable regardless as to whether you have been harassed yourself. Maybe you are just mean looking :D .

08-24-2007, 05:27 PM

Isn't it good for Downtown Crossing that teenagers like to go there? That means it has a future as those teens become adults. I'd be more concerned if most of the people were over 50.

This is one of the reasons why Downtown Crossing is losing retail businesses.

1) Teenagers don't spend money.
2) These groups of kids hanging out are a deterrent in making Downtown Crossing a shopping destination.

Also the homeless and general cleanliness of the area make it easier for people to choose the Back Bay and Copley over Downtown. And now there really isn't any decision to be made because a lot of retail has left Downtown Crossing.

Investments in the area such as Millennium Place and the Opera House are a start and I really think that the Filenes project is going to help change the perceptions of the area.

kennedy

08-24-2007, 08:46 PM

Whenever I go into Downtown Crossing, it's always busy with people, even during the winter. Downtown Crossing always seemed to me the most diverse (cultured? varietal?) area of the city.

KentXie

08-24-2007, 10:54 PM

1) Teenagers don't spend money.

That's because DT is starting to be filled in by high end retail store that most people normally don't shop at, especially teenagers. Us kids can't afford 120 dollar shoes and 60 dollar jeans and for girls 600 dollar purses. The only store I go most often now is Tello's because they sell things cheaper there than most other stores.

TheBostonBoy

08-24-2007, 11:27 PM

Ron Newman

08-24-2007, 11:40 PM

Whenever I go into Downtown Crossing, it's always busy with people, even during the winter..

But without Filene's, Filene's Basement, and Barnes & Noble, will that still be true?

belmont square

08-25-2007, 01:17 AM

Of the major shopping areas in the central city (Faneuil Hall, Copley/Pru, Newbury Street), Downtown Crossing is the only one where the demographics even remotely reflect those of the city itself. So why are people always so charged up about changing it? Don't the tourists/wealthiest 5% of locals already have their own shopping districts?

statler

08-25-2007, 07:40 AM

^^ I'll turn that around and ask, don't the 'real people' of Boston deserve a shopping district that isn't 'downmarket'?
I think the what people want for DTX is a place for 'everyone' that is still clean and inviting. Which it currently isn't.

Ron Newman

08-25-2007, 03:39 PM

What's wrong with 'downmarket'? Can't a place be both downmarket and thriving? (Thinking of Broadway in downtown LA as an example of this.)

singbat

08-25-2007, 05:02 PM

What's wrong with 'downmarket'? Can't a place be both downmarket and thriving? (Thinking of Broadway in downtown LA as an example of this.)

or any farmer's / fishseller's market.

BarbaricManchurian

08-25-2007, 05:33 PM

1) Teenagers don't spend money.

Actually, that is completely wrong. In economics 2 years ago we talked about this topic. Statistically, it turns out teenagers are the age group that spend the most money.

Yeah, that seems right. Everyone in my school bus except me has an iPod (and most people have the latest one) so that's a lot of money being spent. Luckily in my school there isn't really a fashion snob culture, so no one competes to get the best clothes, but I was ridiculed once for having only one pair of sneakers. But how do you count teenagers spending money? Is it parents buying stuff for the kids or parents giving money to the teens and they spend it or teens earning money and spending it?

statler

08-25-2007, 05:37 PM

What's wrong with 'downmarket'? Can't a place be both downmarket and thriving? (Thinking of Broadway in downtown LA as an example of this.)

I just disagree with the notion that clean and inviting somehow means exclusive or touristy.
You can have sections of the city that can be nice and also for the people of the city.

Ron Newman

08-25-2007, 08:33 PM

Inman and Davis squares are good examples of that.

Beton Brut

08-25-2007, 09:47 PM

Inman and Davis squares are good examples of that.

Your observation is correct, Ron, but it fails to consider that Inman and Davis Squares are surrounded by dense residential neighborhoods, and Downtown Crossing is, well, downtown Boston. The scale and economics are wholly incongruent.

Don't get me wrong, I love to see the energy and the vibe of Davis Square in Downtown Crossing. Having a zero-tolerance policy for panhandlers, loitering and truant teenagers, litterbugs, and others who contribute to the air of menace that descends on the area after dark would be key steps forward. Sustained residential growth in the area will require that this be addressed.

Ron Newman

08-25-2007, 10:10 PM

Actually, Davis Square's design actively encourages loitering. Lots of us like to hang out in the brick plaza in front of JP Licks, doing nothing in particular except eating, listening to street musicians, and watching all the other people.

Beton Brut

08-25-2007, 10:36 PM

Absolutely. I've hung out there as well on many occasions before or after a visit to the Somerville Theatre or Redbones. The place and the atmosphere are part of the reason that we go there. But I don't think either of us are there to hassle anyone, or to buy or sell drugs, or to snatch a purse or shopping bag.

I've got no crime stats in front of me for Davis Square or Downtown Crossing, but I'd bet my life that if you scaled them up, Davis is a much safer environment. It should be noted that Davis' proximity to a fine university and a neighborhood of owner-occupied homes can't hurt.

If you were to bring some of the "streetlife" from Downtown Crossing over to Davis Square, you may go someplace else to eat your ice cream, the street musicians would pack it in, and people-watch may have a different meaning.

ablarc

08-26-2007, 01:15 PM

All depends on who does the loitering.

I'm sure we'd all be happy to have Ron loiter anywhere he chooses; but some folks you wouldn't want loitering anywhere.

kennedy

08-26-2007, 09:58 PM

Whenever I go into Downtown Crossing, it's always busy with people, even during the winter..

But without Filene's, Filene's Basement, and Barnes & Noble, will that still be true?

Although those are major attraction to DTX, they will be replaced by a residential building with stores at the bottom. Think. Store vs. Hundreds of homes...where are there more people? These people will be placed smack in the middle of a growing, cultural shopping district. Plus, with an 'upscale grocer' on the ground level, they won't even need to leave for groceries. There are plenty of restaurants, that food court, the H&M, and tons of other great stores. This won't make a major hit on the amount of people in DTX.

08-26-2007, 10:02 PM

kennedy

08-26-2007, 10:06 PM

Yeah really, what high end is in DTX? I never really saw anything...

ablarc

08-27-2007, 07:25 AM

what high end is in DTX?
There are coin dealers on Bromfield Street.

chumbolly

08-27-2007, 10:06 AM

More than anything, DTX needs to become a business improvement district with it's own cleaning crews and security. The BID should extend all the way down Summer to South Station. As I recall the Boston Police Department opposes the creation of a BID, and has shot down the idea several times.

vanshnookenraggen

08-27-2007, 12:05 PM

Why did they oppose it? I think BIDs are great. They have done wonders in New York.

Beton Brut

08-27-2007, 12:29 PM

Why did they oppose it?

My guess is loss of lucrative police details. This motivation is hidden beneath concern about handing public safety over to rent-a-cops.

Ron Newman

08-27-2007, 12:30 PM

One potential issue with BIDs is whether they privatize public space, to the extent that leafleters and political demonstrators are harassed or banished. How has this played out in NYC?

vanshnookenraggen

08-27-2007, 02:50 PM

I deal with leafleters everywhere, BID or not. And cop harass protesters everywhere. But I don't see rent-a-cops patrolling the streets so I'm not sure why they would be afraid of that.

chumbolly

08-27-2007, 03:00 PM

Here's the the Boston Business Journal had to say about it 3 years ago:
Business improvement district proponents have had a long struggle. The idea was first pursued in 1997, at the suggestion of Menino. The coalition of downtown property owners supporting the initiative put together studies and drafted legislation, which passed the Boston City Council. But their efforts hit the first of many snags over a requirement that the Legislature approve the plan because it made a change to state BID law. Massachusetts law allows property owners to opt out of paying for BID services, but the Downtown Crossing BID group insisted that all property owners contribute to the BID's upkeep.

By exposing the BID to the Legislature, proponents put it in the path of the powerful Boston Police Patrolmen's Association, which held up the legislation in the late 1990s over worries that their members would be replaced by private security patrols.

When BID backers and Menino allayed those fears with promises patrol units would be maintained, the legislation was held up by the latest concern -- that large property owners would force their will on smaller ones. That's because a majority vote by property owners accounting for 75 percent of the area's property value would put the BID into effect.

http://www.bizjournals.com/boston/stories/2004/05/10/newscolumn1.html

Beton Brut

08-27-2007, 03:34 PM

But I don't see rent-a-cops patrolling the streets so I'm not sure why they would be afraid of that.

I think that's part of the point. Some condos and co-ops in NYC have plain-clothes/undercover security (some are armed) and surveillance systems around their entrances and contiguous plazas. The developers of projects like what we're seeing at Filene's and on Province Street may want something similar.

I understand Ron's concern about privatizing of public space and its impact on free access to public places and freedom of expression, but I can also imagine the array of concerns that could be voiced by residents, hotel guests, office workers, and business owners. Anyone know the City Council's current position on this?

For my money I wouldn't oppose DTX becoming a BID -- as long as its stewards could ensure a clean, safe, consumer-friendly environment at all hours, I'm not gonna worry too much if PETA can't toss red paint on some elderly woman's fur coat.

vanshnookenraggen

08-27-2007, 04:12 PM

Beton Brut

08-27-2007, 05:53 PM

I can see how people would be wary of privatized police but we have to realize that when people no longer live in places where they can take the time to watch people (Jane Jacobs "eye's on the street") then if they want to be safe, rent-a-cops are the next best thing.

Good points, Van. Consider that the residential and hotel component of the Filene's project and Province Street (not to mention Millennium a few blocks away) all bring residents downtown, but I don't think any of 'em will be signing up for the local crime-watch. These people will pay a premium for (the perception/appearance of) safety.

Real safety (in any neighborhood) is the result of key stakeholders (business owners, residents, elected officials, and civil servants) working together. A lot of people seem to forget that democracy requires you to cook, not to use a microwave.

The law-enforcement community has a point about the "credentialing" of any supplemental patrols that may appear in DTX in the future; these groups should be able to work together, as they have a common purpose.

And as Ron's pointed out, people should be able to gather and carry out their business, even if it's just spreading a message. But the leafleters and canvassers can be part of a larger litter problem, so their activities should be regulated. And there's a fine line between a protest and a public nuisance.

Someone a lot smarter than me needs to triage these issues and address them. When I was a kid (I'm in my late 30's), both of my grandmothers walked Washington Street after dark -- they were in their 80's. My mom feels sketched out there at high noon. She'd rather drive to a mall. That's a shame.

czsz

08-27-2007, 06:08 PM

How is Downtown Crossing a more hostile-feeling environment than Newbury Street, where heiresses routinely flash icy stares at passersby from behind their Prada sunglasses while sipping iced mochas at the Armani Cafe? The crowds of Roxbury teenagers standing around Washington St. joking among themselves seem comparatively benign. The couple anecdotes thrown around in this thread of purse-snatching attempts - common in any busy shopping district, worldwide - haven't altered this perception.

Whenever I bring people from outside Boston to the district, they're astounded to find a part of the city that embodies its diversity - a relative rarity. It's unfortunate that so many find it seemingly threatening.

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JimboJones

08-27-2007, 10:19 PM

The only ones bringing race into this are those who are defending DTX for what it is, today.

It is possible to be against the current state of affairs without considering the race of the people who populate the area.

When I was growing up, in a middle-class to upper middle-class town on the North Shore, there were groups of kids who would gather after dark in an empty lot, near the center of town.

This made everyone else uncomfortable.

Teenagers make people uncomfortable. They are loud and often rowdy. That's what 16-year olds do.

People's complaints have little to do with the color of their skin.

For example, I'm going to guess that kids hanging out on Revere Beach are often railed against by local business people. Those kids, I assume, are white.

Now, the argument can be made that everyone should just accept the behavior of teenagers, but that's not the conversation we're currently having.

kz1000ps

08-27-2007, 10:42 PM

Whenever I bring people from outside Boston to the district, they're astounded to find a part of the city that embodies its diversity - a relative rarity.

Yup. A friend who lived in Philadelphia for five years was out last week. We walked from the Common down Winter to lower Summer St, and he was surprised by the mixture and heavy traffic of DTX, saying Philly had next to nothing like it.

czsz

08-27-2007, 11:30 PM

I don't quite see the corollary between the kids in DTCrossing and those who hang out on suburban parking lots. DTCrossing is a bustling neighborhood with a wide variety of pedestrians; the teens who hang out there don't have hegemony like they would in a vacant slice of suburbia.

Defending DTCrossing for what it is? Why, yes, so long as the alternatives I hear advocated almost always involve making the district "cleaner" and more "upscale" - attributes that would diminish its uniqueness in more than one respect. The one thing I'd like to see changed about the neighborhood is the increasing amount of vacant space, but there's no reason the storefronts there can't support more retail that isn't of the Back Bay variety.

Beton Brut

08-27-2007, 11:34 PM

The only ones bringing race into this are those who are defending DTX for what it is, today.

It is possible to be against the current state of affairs without considering the race of the people who populate the area?

That's certainly part the conversation I'm hoping to have in this thread. My opinions about DTX are not race-based. As I've said before, there are troublemakers of every stripe that cruise the area looking to start something, or roll someone. And it isn't always shiftless or truant teenagers. There are shifty types of all ages, some homeless, some intoxicated, some looking for an easy grab-'n-go.

The couple anecdotes thrown around in this thread of purse-snatching attempts - common in any busy shopping district, worldwide - haven't altered this perception.

I understand this is the city, and there are always going to be a fresh supply of undesirables, but as a society, it's unwise to shrug and say "They're just kids," or "They're down on their luck." Tolerating bad behavior amplifies it. It's time for someone to turn the volume down.

Whenever I bring people from outside Boston to the district, they're astounded to find a part of the city that embodies its diversity - a relative rarity.

The same things are apparent in Roslindale Square, Coolidge Corner, on Center Street and Harvard Ave, Inman, Central and Davis Squares, and even in Orient Heights. Diversity isn't the problem with DTX, and I don't think any of its critics (myself included) have suggested that this is so.

I'm going to guess that kids hanging out on Revere Beach are often railed against by local business people. Those kids, I assume, are white.

The kid's are generally Latino and South Asian, from Lynn and Revere. They're generally not the problem. Older Latino gang members (18th street, MS 13), and bikers (mainly the Lynn chapter of the Hell's Angels) hold court near Kelly's. Occasionally have "disagreements" about the underground pharmaceutical trade. Sand isn't the only white powder on Revere Beach.

BostonObserver

08-28-2007, 10:09 AM

The couple anecdotes thrown around in this thread of purse-snatching attempts - common in any busy shopping district, worldwide - haven't altered this perception.
Theft is now ok?
It's unfortunate that so many find it seemingly threatening.
So I should not find being physically attacked and verbally assaulted threatening?

----
Name calling doesn't add anthing to your argument.

-Van
---

chumbolly

08-28-2007, 11:46 AM

BostonObserver, come on, don't be so petulant.

Getting back to the discussion, when I suggested DTX needs a BID, I wasn't thinking so much about security as cleanliness. Personally, I feel more threatened at Cambridgeside Galleria than I do at DTX. I'm a big believer in the broken windows theory when it comes to places like DTX--if you keep the place really clean, and spend a few dollars making the place look good, a lot of social problems will recede on their own.

Ron Newman

08-28-2007, 12:41 PM

What DTX really needs is a concerted effort by landlords and the city to fill storefront vacancies. Make it commercially lively again, and all other problems will begin to solve themselves.

vanshnookenraggen

08-28-2007, 12:57 PM

I wasn't thinking so much about security as cleanliness.

This is what I was getting at originaly. This is the most visable and effective way to change an area on the cheap.

if you keep the place really clean, and spend a few dollars making the place look good, a lot of social problems will recede on their own.

Well let's be honest, they won't go away, just out of sight out of mind.

czsz

08-28-2007, 03:27 PM

Theft isn't okay, obviously, but insinuating that the groups of teenagers hanging out in Downtown Crossing are inherently linked to such theft to the extent that they all need to be "chased away" is an overreaction. Theft can be managed within the existing commercial and cultural fabric of the neighborhood. The Ramblas in Barcelona is one of the best gigs in the world for purse-snatchers and pickpockets, but no one there is panicked and desperate to evict the people who regularly hang out there.

I'm with Ron; the best way to improve Downtown Crossing is to fill its storefront vacancies and increase the number and diversity of people who course through it. What I'm really deadset against are attempts to wholesale "cleanse" it of its character or socioeconomic profile. I bristle at hearing suggestions that the neighborhood must be made upscale, and that low-income shopping has to move out of central Boston. I'd rather have those south of Melena Cass Boulevard come to shop on Washington St. than at South Bay. Downtown Crossing is an asset to the city insofar as it brings together many of its ethnic and income groups, and many of the proposed changes may make it inhospitable to these communities, balkanizing Boston even further.

belmont square

08-28-2007, 06:52 PM

My mom feels sketched out there at high noon. She'd rather drive to a mall. That's a shame.

While we can all hope for an improved Downtown Crossing, I would hope most of us would agree that people who prefer driving to the mall because they are sketched out by the district at noon (I ran errands there with my two young daughters this afternoon) should not be the target demographic for planned improvements.

Not because we don't want to lure people away from malls.

Not because the district is not objectively "sketchy" at certain hours of the day

But because Downtown Crossing is ill-suited to lure in the mall shopper that finds the current noon-time scene threatening without losing whatever soul it currently has.

JimboJones

08-28-2007, 08:24 PM

I'd prefer that the area be a mix of shops and stores (er, what's the difference? Ha ha.)

The problem is there is not a mix, I don't think. I think the jewelry stores are basically still there only because they can't afford to move elsewhere, and/or they have such a trade built-up over the years that they are successful enough, as is.

But that isn't the point I wanted to make. All I wanted to say is, I think the new Filene's building will go upscale with the retail. I don't know where I'm getting this idea, maybe I read it somewhere. But I think they're looking for "suburban-mall" type tenants.

Oh, right. Like the Mayor wants - Target.

And, they want a supermarket down there, I thought I heard.

Where they plan on getting the foot traffic from this, I don't know.

Yes, Chinatown is nearby, but will that be enough of a draw?

Of course, Vornado is smatter than I am, right?

chumbolly

08-28-2007, 10:15 PM

And, they want a supermarket down there, I thought I heard.

Where they plan on getting the foot traffic from this, I don't know.

A giant Stop and Shop that sells everything from spaghetti o's to inflatable rafts wouldn't work, but a market geared towards city dwellers, and workers, would. I grabbed lunch yesterday at the Charles Street Whole Foods and that store couldn't have been more jumping. I walked there from the direction of the Financial District, and I passed a lot of people carrying WF shopping bags. That kind of place in DTX could be transformative.

I also think you might be surprised by how many people already live in that neighborhood, they just don't do much living there, yet. Put in a good market and the residents will come down to street level.

Ron Newman

08-28-2007, 10:52 PM

Whole Foods on Charles Street ?

czsz

08-29-2007, 12:59 AM

He probably meant the Cambridge Street one.

chumbolly

08-29-2007, 09:27 AM

^right, I meant Cambridge Street.

Ron Newman

08-29-2007, 10:00 AM

Some good news for a change: a store opening in DTX. Even better, its their first one in North America.

CeX and the City: Shop buys sells used DVDs (http://business.bostonherald.com/technologyNews/view.bg?articleid=1019705)

With a name like CeX, it’s certain to grab some attention.

And those tired of watching their collection of DVDs for the umpteenth time, or looking to upgrade from their current cell phone or notebook computer, can soon turn to CeX to sell them.

The British company, whose stores buy and sell secondhand video games, DVDs, computing products, cell phones, and electronics such as iPods and digital cameras, has chosen Boston for its first U.S. location.

CeX - pronounced “sex” and short for Complete Entertainment Exchange - is slated to open Sept. 25 at 46 Winter St. in Downtown Crossing. The company also plans a Cambridge store.

Founded 15 years ago, CeX has grown from a small, 300-square-foot London store to a chain of 50 in the United Kingdom and Spain with annual revenue of $100 million, said founder Robert Dudani. It’s starting big here, with a 6,000-square-foot store in the former Homer’s space, next to Manhattan Clothing.

“We thought we’d give it a go over here,” Dudani said. “We’re a unique proposition, and we don’t see that we have any competition.”

Here’s how the stores work: A customer brings in his cell phone, and a CeX employee inspects it to ensure it’s operable before appraising it. The customer can choose to receive cash for the product, or a higher exchange value that’s redeemable toward a purchase in the store.

“We trade every single product on a supply and demand (basis) like a stock market,” Dudani said.

If the store buys a product for a certain price and can’t sell it, it will pay less for that same product the next time, and sell it for less, until it finds the optimal price.

All products sold by CeX come with a one-year warranty in case of failure. The company also offers a two-day “no quibble” guarantee for returns.

CeX is bringing in used inventory from the United Kingdom to stock the Boston store until it builds up a local inventory.

“We’re hoping a lot of people come in with big black bags of all the video games and DVDs they no longer watch,” Dudani said.

Beton Brut

08-29-2007, 04:04 PM

My mom feels sketched out there at high noon. She'd rather drive to a mall. That's a shame.
...I would hope most of us would agree that people who prefer driving to the mall because they are sketched out by the district at noon...should not be the target demographic for planned improvements.

It think you've taken me out of context here. If you go back and read my entire statement, I was suggesting (through a personal example) that DTX has slipped in the past 20-25 years, both in appearance (cleanliness, occupancy of retail locations) and atmosphere (the behavior of some of its patrons). I believe the combination of these two factors contribute to some folks, who shopped there historically, taking their business elsewhere.

If it means anything, my mom is in her 70's. She grew up in Boston, worked downtown for many years, misses R.H. White's and Kennedy's, and prefers city streets to parking lots.

Perhaps this is clearer than my previous example.

jass

08-29-2007, 04:58 PM

The British company, whose stores buy and sell secondhand video games, DVDs, computing products, cell phones, and electronics such as iPods and digital cameras, has chosen Boston for its first U.S. location.

CeX is bringing in used inventory from the United Kingdom to stock the Boston store until it builds up a local inventory.
.

Unless they plan on only selling cameras and Cds at first, that might be an issue...

DVDs and games have region locks, and electronics use 220v. And if it supports 110, the plug will still be different

Beton Brut

08-29-2007, 05:04 PM

^^ Good point. Still, it seems like an interesting addition to DTX --- essentially an upscale 21st Century pawn shop. I wonder how they'll compete with eBay.

statler

08-29-2007, 06:07 PM

There was a place on Winter St called CD Spins a year or so back. They also sold used CD and DVDs. Emphasis on was.

Ron Newman

08-29-2007, 06:09 PM

CD Spins still exists in Davis Square, and I think other places. I don't know why they closed the DTX store, or whether it reopened under a different name.

underground

08-30-2007, 09:42 AM

CD Spin used to be everywhere. For that matter, used CD stores in general used to be everywhere. I think they're scaling back is just a sign of changing technology.

castevens

08-30-2007, 05:49 PM

I buy all songs off of iTunes. It's good. No longer can artists get me to pay 16$ for an entire CD when all I want are 2 songs.

kennedy

08-30-2007, 06:00 PM

CD stores are history. Online music is going to wipe them out completely, eventually. There are some novel ideas about "electronic music boutiques." Selling music at a cafe style atmosphere. Plug your iPod into the bar, and select the music right there.

Ron Newman

09-01-2007, 12:43 AM

I don't know exactly when this happened, but some time in the last week or two, Strawberries closed and was replaced by a store called "f y e" that appears to sell the same sort of merchandise.

Beton Brut

09-01-2007, 01:08 AM

f y e = for your entertainment

CDs priced to move at $21.99.

Good luck finding anything worth listening to, Ron.

I miss Second Coming and Planet Records.

TheBostonian

09-01-2007, 02:55 AM

FYE does have some discount electronics.

jass

09-01-2007, 03:00 AM

FYE bougt the strawberries chain and is eliminating the name.

FYE is a national brand

Ron Newman

09-01-2007, 09:05 AM

One more local brand going away, then. (Jordan Marsh, Filene's, Bradlees, Coffee Connection, Sack Theatres...)

kennedy

09-02-2007, 09:17 PM

as for sacks theaters, we got amc which is local and national...what a concept...

Ron Newman

09-02-2007, 09:20 PM

what's local about AMC?

kennedy

09-02-2007, 09:34 PM

One of the guys who started amc was from Newton. I'm pretty sure their first theater was there.

Ron Newman

09-02-2007, 11:19 PM

I have a feeling you are thinking of General Cinema (which went bankrupt and was then merged into AMC) or perhaps Showcase/National Amusements, which is locally based even though it is part of CBS/Viacom.

AMC is based in Kansas City.

statler

10-25-2007, 01:50 PM

Looks like there may be some construction (or demo at the moment) going on in the old B&N space.

Does anyone know if they have found a tenant?

Mike

11-05-2007, 12:54 PM

Neighbors vs. nightlife
Flood of new city residents throws cold water on new venues
Boston Business Journal - by Naomi R. Kooker Journal staff

It's down to the wire.

Either Brunir Shakelton makes enough compromises on his application for a live entertainment license or risks not opening the long-shuttered Estelle's nightclub at 888 Tremont St. in Boston.

It was the live entertainment license that triggered a public hearing at City Hall Oct. 10, according to Patricia Malone, director of Consumer Affairs and Licensing for the city. "If he was my client, I'd start from square one," she said.

Shakelton's application for live entertainment comes at a time when more residential development has been built around the area. The opposition -- a two-page petition -- came from residents on Camden Street, where a residential development was built over the past few years.

The tug-of-war over turf -- residents who want to maintain peace and quiet, and an establishment owner who wants to operate a nightclub -- is also part of a growing concern among taxpayers and business owners as more residential developments spring up in Boston neighborhoods traditionally dominated by commercial business, or vice versa.

It's a balancing act, say both residents and business owners, who both agree that it's imperative that business owners ingratiate themselves in the community from the get-go.

Malone suggested that Shakelton, the site's owner and operator, post earlier closing hours on the weekends or at least provide a parking and traffic plan that's workable" -- as well as hold a neighborhood meeting to discuss his concerns with residents. Shakelton could not be reached for comment.

Sol Sidell, owner of the South Street Diner in the Leather District, pulled his application for a live entertainment license last fall when new residents from 210 South St. condos opposed having live folk or rockabilly music from 5 p.m. to 11 p.m.

The diner has been a mainstay for years in the mostly commercial neighborhood. "There was no track record," said Sidell, who has owned the diner for 10 years and has supported the residential growth. "There was no communication prior to it. ... You must show a track record that everybody's trying to benefit the neighborhood."

The top concerns most residents raise include excessive noise, traffic and parking. The noise is often attributed to club-goers who leave an establishment late at night.

Mary Ann Ponti, a Downtown Crossing resident of five years and vice president of public finance for Sterne Agee & Leach Inc. on Franklin Street, knows that scenario well. She lived through 10 years of it in Manhattan. There, though, she said, club owners hushed guests as they left a nightclub, making it an agreeable situation for residents who often live side by side with restaurants and clubs.

"It's all awareness," said Ponti. "I think Boston needs a nightlife. It's just they have to integrate within the neighborhood to work together."

For instance, her building shares an alley with an upscale Indian restaurant on Temple Place. Though it wasn't late-night club-goers, it was allegedly the staff taking a break at the back door, chatting and dumping the trash loudly, that annoyed the neighbors. "We had a negotiation, and we are now friendly neighbors," says Ponti.

The issue is likely to raise even more concerns as 10,000 residents are slated to move into the Downtown Crossing area over the next 10 years, according to the Boston Redevelopment Authority.

Downtown Crossing, the Seaport District and South Boston are hot spots for potential clashes -- and compromises -- as residential development increases in an otherwise commercial or industrial areas.

"Hindsight is 20-20," said Scott Farmelant, a spokesperson for Longwood Events, a Boston-based events company that specializes in unique venue locales. Last year, Longwood Events owner Jim Apteker signed a lease to take over a warehouse space at 15 Channel Center in South Boston, hoping to turn it into a chic urban setting for functions, namely parties and weddings. Longwood pulled out of the lease one month ago.

"We were unable to build consensus with the community," said Farmelant. According to Farmelant, residents were concerned about late-night noise among other things. The Channel Center and the surrounding area house artists lofts as well as market-price condominiums.

Some residents in other neighborhoods hope that consensus never comes. Ubah Ahmed, a single mom with a 16-year-old son, who lives about two blocks from Estelle's, said she would not want Estelle's to reopen as a club.

"The music's always loud, you can't sleep," she said. "Everybody's drunk ... I just want it safe for my child."

Despite the push back from residential newcomers, some commercial site owners say they are doing their part to bring harmony to their neighborhoods.

For Sidell, that has meant spending $50 monthly for a "puppy stop" outside the South Street Diner. The area has a hydrant-shaped trash can where dog walkers can deposit scooped poop and get their dogs a drink of water and a milk bone. Residents had been using Sidell's trash -- and missing the receptacles, causing consternation with the garbage collectors. "It's about compromise on both sides," said Sidell, who may go for an entertainment license at a later date.

Likewise, LTK Bar and Kitchen in the Seaport District, an area that's undergoing a renaissance with increased residential and mixed-use growth, shares its loading dock with residents of Park Lane Seaport apartments, which opened last year; salmon is received where couches are delivered.

"We need to communicate very well with the GM (of Park Lane) and residents on keeping things clean," said Rich Vellante, executive chef and vice president of restaurants for Legal Sea Foods, which operates LTK. "It's the future right now, is a mix of residents and services ... in close proximity. It's negotiating, being respectful of your neighbors."

Link (http://www.bizjournals.com/boston/stories/2007/11/05/story1.html?b=1194238800^1544627 )

johnmcboston

11-09-2007, 03:54 PM

"Hi. I moved to the city but I want absolute silence and lots of green grass so I can feel just like I did in the suburbs".

Ron Newman

11-09-2007, 03:59 PM

888 Tremont is in a district that traditionally had many jazz clubs. 210 South Street is primarily a business district, which was formerly a warehouse district.

vanshnookenraggen

11-09-2007, 04:10 PM

Maybe this is some secret way the city is trying to get the entertainment to move to the South Boston Waterfront?

statler

11-21-2007, 07:46 AM

No holiday twinkle here
Without the Basement, Downtown Crossing fears a retail disaster

By Jenn Abelson, Globe Staff | November 21, 2007

Filene's Basement in Downtown Crossing was always a big part of Nina Braun's holiday shopping tradition, the place she scored countless finds, like a $35 Coach wallet for her mother, marked down from $200.

But since the historic Basement was shuttered in September, Braun has not returned to the beleaguered retail district. She plans to take her holiday shopping elsewhere this season, to the high-end shops on Newbury Street, the new Filene's Basement in the Back Bay, and the Northshore Mall in Peabody.

"Now that the Basement is gone, I can't think of why I would need to go over to Downtown Crossing," said Braun, who lives in Boston.

Downtown Crossing, once a retail mecca that attracted families every weekend, has struggled for years to reinvent itself amidst the departure of department stores, persistent vacancies, and suburban competition.

The final blow may be the loss of Filene's Basement, which was the city's top shopping attraction. The disappearance of shoppers like Braun has merchants in Downtown Crossing bracing for what could be one of the worst holiday shopping seasons in memory - and city officials scrambling for ways to bring shoppers back.

To that end, the city said yesterday that it's planning to spend $100,000 on new marketing and programs to help lure shoppers during the holiday season to Downtown Crossing. A temporary market selling wreaths and Christmas trees will open in December on Summer Street, along with a petting zoo nearby. The city also is bringing Santa to the area on the weekends and offering free candy canes and hot cocoa.

The Boston Redevelopment Authority is also starting to run advertisements in local media, including the Globe, to market Downtown Crossing. The BRA has signed up a dozen restaurants and retailers to take part in promotions, such as two appetizers for the price of one with an entree or a free dessert at local restaurants and 10 percent off purchases over $25 at retailers.

And on Tuesday, Mayor Thomas M. Menino and the BRA will present final recommendations for branding strategies for Downtown Crossing, an initiative that was started last year.

Preliminary plans, revealed this year by the city's consultants, called for expanding the pedestrian-centered shopping district while creating an urban oasis filled with sidewalk cafes, bicycle taxis, and food markets.

"Mayor Menino cares deeply about the merchants in Downtown Crossing and he knows the next six weeks are critical for them," said Susan Elsbree, a BRA spokeswoman.

Meanwhile, some Downtown Crossing retailers are struggling to keep their doors open. Some are reducing staffs and store hours because of the slowdown in business since Filene's Basement closed. Other merchants have slashed inventory as much as 50 percent because they are expecting so few shoppers.

"This will be the worst Christmas season ever," said James Adler, who sells Boston and Red Sox merchandise at three pushcarts in Downtown Crossing, including one sandwiched between the empty Filene's Basement and the former Barnes & Noble store, vacant for more than a year.

"I've ordered about 50 percent less merchandise," he said, "and now I have to reinvent myself. Most vendors are going to try to make it through, but we don't know if we can."

If retailers can make it through the holiday season, they will see changes in the shopping district. Downtown Crossing will turn into a construction zone in January as demolition begins for a massive redevelopment project that will convert the Filene's complex into condominiums, a hotel, offices, and retail space. Filene's Basement plans to return to Downtown Crossing in spring 2009.

But that will do little to help retailers that are struggling now. And the city's promotions, events, and expansion plans may not be enough to immediately lure back some shoppers who have long made a holiday tradition of going to Filene's Basement at Downtown Crossing, where streets that once bustled with shoppers and big department stores are now lined mostly with vacant storefronts and low-end chains.

After all, the century-old Basement pioneered the concept of bargains when it devised a system of automatic markdowns, with merchandise discounted on a set schedule that customers could track.

The coveted automatic markdowns were what drew Braun to Downtown Crossing every holiday shopping season.

"The automatic markdown game turned the stress of holiday shopping into a 'winner takes all' entertainment," she said, listing other deals, including a $40 Italian leather photo album, originally priced over $100, and a Kenneth Cole handbag, discounted to $35 after weeks of markdowns.

While other Filene's Basement stores have opened - including one this year in the Back Bay - only the Downtown Crossing location maintained the famed automatic markdowns, drawing loyal shoppers, tourists, and suburbanites to the area.

Sue Camies, who is visiting Boston this week from the United Kingdom, decided to stay at the Hyatt Regency specifically because of its proximity to the Basement. Camies said she was shocked to find out the store had closed, because it was still being promoted on British Airways' website. Now, she plans to amuse herself with restaurants and shopping excursions elsewhere in the city.

Would-be Downtown Crossing shoppers like Camies have lots of other options. Several major shopping centers in Greater Boston have opened in the past year, including Patriot Place in Foxborough, with unusual destination stores like the outdoor retailer Bass Pro Shops. And the Natick Collection recently unveiled its expanded center, with 100 new upscale shops. On the day after Thanksgiving, traditionally the start of holiday shopping, an elaborate schedule of events is planned in Natick, including free yoga sessions, a swing orchestra, and a "Wine, Women, and Shopping" giveaway at the ritzy Stuart Weitzman shoe and handbag store.

But shoppers aren't the only ones who notice all the new choices.

"People need a reason to come down here, and without Filene's we can't compete with other shopping centers like Natick," said Karl Volker, who owns Super Socks on Winter Street in Downtown Crossing and sells Boston sweatshirts, hats, gloves, and other merchandise.

Volker has cut his workers' hours by 30 percent since Filene's Basement closed, and he expects sales to drop as much as 50 percent this holiday season.

"It looks like it will be one of the worst seasons," he said.

Jenn Abelson can be reached at abelson@globe.com.
Link (http://www.boston.com/business/articles/2007/11/21/no_holiday_twinkle_here/ )

Ron Newman

11-21-2007, 08:57 AM

It's hard for me to see what will bring people into DTX to shop this year. At the moment, I can't name one store in DTX that isn't also found in another more attractive or convenient location. The Christmas window displays always used to be a big draw, Jordan Marsh competing with Filene's across the street, but that's not happening this year either.

tommym96

11-21-2007, 12:17 PM

they need a better variety of stores and it wouldn't hurt to have a decent restaurant somewhere in there. basically there are vendors, which are great but not always ideal, a quizno's and al capones.

statler

11-21-2007, 12:36 PM

They seem to be doing something with the B&N site, but I don't know what. Most of the other store fronts are filled, albeit with crappy jewelery stores and sneaker shops.
It could be a lot better (and hopefully it will be when the new Filene's building opens) but it could also be a lot worse (shuttered stores, empty lots, etc..)

Ron Newman

11-21-2007, 01:36 PM

Winter Street always seems to be pockmarked with empty or closed stores; the ugly former CVS/Gold's Gym building on Summer Street is empty as are its neighbors; Lafayette Place and the Ritz Towers still have empty storefronts, too.

statler

11-21-2007, 02:07 PM

Winter St stores never seem closed for long (there is always going to be some down time due to turn over.)

Lafayette Place and Ritz will probably fill up when the Paramount & Modern restorations are completed (or maybe not till Hayward Place is completed).

I don't know what's up with the old CVS location. That is such a busy corner (even excluding the homeless traffic). The owner must be asking for some absurd rents. Hopefully that will be corrected soon.

Again, DTX could be doing A LOT better. But it's not all doom and gloom.

Ron Newman

11-21-2007, 02:23 PM

If the former CVS/Gold's building has a nice facade hidden underneath, I'd like to see it uncovered. Otherwise, somebody please demolish it.

Even a day later, I still can't think of much that really makes Downtown Crossing a destination now, something you can find only at Downtown Crossing and nowhere else in the city. Brattle Book Shop, some high-end jewelers, but what else?

That is why the loss of Filene's Automatic Bargain Basement hurts so much. It was truly unique.

lexicon506

11-21-2007, 03:16 PM

OK, so the district will go through two years of depression. People are acting like this is a permanent state. It sucks to be a retailer there now, but as long as the Basement keeps its promise to return (along w/ the automatic markdowns), people will flock back to DTX come 2009. The new residences springing up combined with nostalgia will attract even more people than before, and if vacant storefronts exist they'll fill up with a whole new batch of retailers. It'll hurt to see DTX until then, but I think it'll come back healthier than ever before.

statler

11-21-2007, 03:30 PM

^^Exactly.

However I still think the city, landlords and existing retailers could do more to moderate the damage done during those two years, rather than just saying, "Fuck it. Wait it out."

And I still say this would be a perfect time for the Corner Mall to rip down that god-awful 80's era Pac-Man inspired marquee and put up something halfway decent before someone gets it into their head that it's a 'landmark'.

Ron Newman

11-21-2007, 04:29 PM

Filling the vacant storefronts with short-term commercial tenants, even at sub-market rents, would help a LOT. The tenants will need to know that they are likely to be booted out in 2009 or 2010, or have their rent increased, but surely there must be business people who would jump at this opportunity?

ablarc

11-21-2007, 05:03 PM

Pitiful.

Anybody with eyes could see this coming ten, twenty, thirty years ago.

And you know what? They still don't have a plan.

Breaks my heart.

lexicon506

11-21-2007, 05:36 PM

Anybody with eyes could see this coming ten, twenty, thirty years ago.

See what coming? Certaintly not the redevelopment of the Filene's building into a major mixed use tower that will attract hundreds of shoppers, office workers, condo buyers, and tourists straight to the heart of Downtown Crossing! Or maybe you're talking about the construction of the luxury tower at 45 Province or the influx of Suffolk students at 10 West and the Modern?

I don't see what the big failure here is. I think the city is doing a great job of addressing the decline of DTX. Whether they had a plan or not, something was successful, or else why would developers be attracted to invest in the district? Sure, the city failed to plan what to do during the short gap between the beginning and end of construction....but I think they've had more important issues to deal with.

Ron Newman

11-21-2007, 07:21 PM

I don't think the merger of May and Federated could have been forecast even three years in advance. A federal administration that cared about anti-trust would have blocked the merger, leaving us with two healthy and competing department stores.

Padre Mike

11-21-2007, 08:40 PM

Some trivia: The CVS/Gold's Gym building on Summer/Arch St. used to be a Bond's Shoe Store. It's facade (ugly as we now consider it) was quite the thing when it was erected. A sadder commentary is the 7-11 across Arch St. Originally, a beautiful 19th C building anchored the corner. Then the Union Warren Bank (now defunct) bought the building, tore it down, and built that pathetic 1.5 story yellow brick thing in its place. The Charlestown Savings bank across Summer St. at the same location, now the hulking black CVS, was a wonderful neo-gothic building needing some restoration. Again, destruction and useless plazas were the them of the 70's.

kz1000ps

11-22-2007, 11:34 AM

That dinky little 7-11 building always bugs me whenever I walk by. You can tell something of stature once stood there, but now we have that ugly brown brick thing that's too short for its site. And to top it all off, an architectural firm occupies the upper floor :rolleyes:

Lurker

11-22-2007, 09:11 PM

And a bad architecture firm at that

Beton Brut

11-22-2007, 11:46 PM

Anybody with eyes could see this coming ten, twenty, thirty years ago.

Are you suggesting that Boston's politicians, business community, academics, and other civic leaders all maintained an "it can't happen here" mentality about our downtown? Did everyone just assume that Boston's historic character and place as a academic and research hub would render it immune from calamity that has happened in the downtowns of larger and lesser cities since the end of WWII? If you're saying that, then right on...

And you know what? They still don't have a plan.

What's yours?

kmp1284

11-23-2007, 03:19 AM

And a bad architecture firm at that

Ablarc's?

JoeGallows

11-23-2007, 11:03 AM

I believe these are some of the original buildings in question. The one with the Waldorf's sign on the left is where I believe the 7-11 is now, the one across the street (with the Leopard Morse sign) is the gym, I think. Arch Street is right in the middle of the picture running between the two buildings. Has that mailbox been at that corner for that long? :)

http://fb.xenostarz.com/joestuff/Summer%20&%20Arch%20Comp.jpg

Link to picture info (http://rfi.bostonhistory.org/boston/default.asp?IDCFile=/Boston/details.idc,SPECIFIC=3767,DATABASE=ITEM )

EDIT: I took a photo of the same area this afternoon to create this comparison, but having had the wrong lens with me, I couldn't line it up quite right. The building at far left should serve as a point of reference. 1950's on the left, 2007 on the right.

Padre Mike

11-23-2007, 04:16 PM

Yes, yes, JoeGallows! I remember venturing into town at the age of 14 with a friend. We ate at the Waldorf's cafeteria...I had Swedish meatballs...and heartburn the entire bus ride back to the 'burbs. Thanks for the picture! I wonder if all that wonderful architectural detail of the Morse building is underneath the facade of the present gym building across Arch St.?

Lurker

11-24-2007, 10:44 AM

kmp1284, Given ablarc's postings here I don't think he'd ever be caught dead working for a firm as contextually and ethically challenged as the one in question.

czsz

11-26-2007, 01:49 AM

Something I wrote in the Newbury Street thread:

Newbury Street thrives while Washington Street dies because one is more versatile than the other: there's no use for an exclusive, 9-5 downtown retail district when the majority of people in the metro (and even the inner city) can head for malls to get their big-box fit. If Downtown Crossing's makeover results in a more diverse-use, 24 hour culture for that whole area, it will be the best thing that ever happened to it.

statler

11-28-2007, 08:17 AM

Plan seeks private $$ to refresh Downtown Crossing
By Donna Goodison Wednesday, November 28, 2007
http://multimedia.heraldinteractive.com/images/9f9c0c6e3f_bromfieldst_11282007.jpg
Photo by BRA

City officials have revived controversial plans for a business improvement district - or BID - at Downtown Crossing, with the hope of raising $2 million to $4 million annually from private property owners to pay for a “clean and safe” program, events and marketing for the down-on-its-luck shopping area.

The proposals for the BID and new organizations to oversee the area were revealed yesterday as consultants hired by the city unveiled recommendations, previewed in February, to rebrand and rejuvenate Downtown Crossing as “Boston’s meeting place” and attract new businesses.

Talks of a BID come 11 years after the city and some Downtown Crossing business leaders first attempted to get legislative approval for a special zone where property owners would be levied a surcharge based on the size of their holdings there. That BID proposal languished and died on Beacon Hill due to opposition from labor groups, most notably the Boston Police Patrolmen’s Association, which in part feared that private security guards would encroach on their turf and paid details.

More recently, Menino had trouble convincing Downtown Crossing property owners to pony up $500,000 in matching funds for street furniture and more frequent cleanups. But city officials are hopeful the new BID proposal will meet with approval from all parties this time around. “The big difference is this time we have a comprehensive plan,” said Randi Lathrop, the Boston Redevelopment Authority’s deputy director of community planning.

Lathrop said the BRA already has reached out to the patrolmen’s association. But BPPA president Thomas Nee said he only received a brief, last-minute courtesy call Monday night about the plans. Nee said the association is willing to be involved in new BID discussions, but deemed previous legislation “unacceptable.”

“There were no competitive bidding laws, nothing. It was outside all the current statutes,” said Nee, who said he remains concerned about any “privatization of law enforcement services.”

“We don’t need security guards walking up and down public ways doing our job,” he said.

The city’s plans call for a new Downtown Crossing Partnership that would serve as an umbrella organization to set policy for the district. It would use BID funds to hire “ambassadors” who would wear uniform jackets and serve as the city’s “eyes and ears” there, assisting people in need and working closely with Boston Police, Lathrop said.

Millennium Partners Boston principal Tony Pangaro supports plans for a BID.

“Millennium has projects in BIDs in San Francisco and New York, and we’re very supportive of this one,” said Pangaro, whose company built the Ritz-Carlton Boston Common and Residences and will develop Hayward Place. “It’s a way of targeting resources. You can focus and coordinate efforts in a much more concerted way with a BID.”

But other, smaller property owners privately voiced frustration with what they see as attempts to shift what should be city responsibilities onto private businesses and a new layer of “bureaucracy” for the district. Other new organizations or groups would be formed to handle events and marketing and pedestrian-zone issues.

The recommendations also call for increased oversight and enforcement for pushcart retailers through a stepped up role by the Downtown Crossing Association, which was characterized as chronically underfunded. Rosemary Sansone, the association’s new president, said she assumed the role to bring the group to a “new level” and work more closely with pushcart owners.
Link (http://www.bostonherald.com/business/general/view.bg?articleid=1047503&format=text)

I don't see the problem with the security issue. The small businesses are balking at the expense of running the BID, the BPPA is balking at 'privatizing public safety'.
The obvious solution is to build the BID but exclude the rent-a-cops. Leave the city the expense of patrolling DTX.
The businesses do what they do best: marketing, branding & maintenance and the city does what it does best.
Everybody wins.

underground

11-28-2007, 09:37 AM

The Globe ran a similar article this morning, but what the Herald called "controversial" the Globe called "innovative." BIDs are one of Shirley Kressel's favorite targets, so I'm betting we're all in store for some awesome inane rants! Her website (Boston Neigborhood Collalition, or whatever) has a pretty good one going already.

statler

11-28-2007, 09:51 AM

^^ Thanks for the heads up
New tax may aid retail district

By Jenn Abelson, Globe Staff | November 28, 2007

Creating a business improvement district in Downtown Crossing is key to raising up to $4 million annually for the struggling retail area and helping it spring to life, consultants hired by the city said yesterday.

The proposed initiative would allow merchants in the 20-block area around Downtown Crossing to tax themselves and use the millions in revenue to beef up safety, sanitation, and marketing efforts. It would be the first business improvement district in Boston, which remains one of the only major US cities without one.

"We must be creative and willing to do things outside the box," Boston Mayor Thomas M. Menino said yesterday. "We will have some challenges over the next 18 months, but we'll come through this, and the future is very bright."

Downtown Crossing is at a crossroads, having lost two of its biggest attractions - Filene's Department store and Filene's Basement - within the past year. Millions of dollars in new investment are pouring into the pedestrian retail district, but it is still plagued by vacancies and competition from the suburbs.

Moreover, the redevelopment of the Filene's complex, for which demolition starts in January, will turn the heart of Downtown Crossing into a construction zone for the next two years. Filene's Basement plans to return after the construction is done.

City officials and retailers pushed a plan for a business improvement district nearly 10 years ago, but it failed twice. It faced opposition from the Boston Police Patrolmen's Association, a labor union, because of plans to hire private security guards. And the Legislature voiced concerns that the plan did not give an equal voice to all property owners and lacked sufficient oversight by local government.

A spokeswoman for the Boston Redevelopment Authority said the city plans to work with all stakeholders to make the legislation successful this time. The proposal will not call for privatized security, she said.

Thomas J. Nee, the patrolmen's association president, said he was invited to participate in discussions about the proposal. "The city indicated they have no desire to chase the failures of the previously proposed legislation," Nee said.

Other recommendations issued yesterday included restricting traffic on parts of Bromfield Street, eliminating curbs in the pedestrian-only sections of Downtown Crossing, and restricting cars in these areas between 8 a.m. and 8 p.m. The consultants, who have been working for the past year on branding and marketing initiatives for the retail district, also suggested reducing the number of pushcarts and having the vendors sell more diverse merchandise.

The BRA plans to unveil a marketing effort next year to brand Downtown Crossing as the meeting place for all Bostonians. A website to promote the area is expected to be launched in April.

Jenn Abelson can be reached at abelson@globe.com.
Link (http://www.boston.com/business/globe/articles/2007/11/28/new_tax_may_aid_retail_district/ )

vanshnookenraggen

11-28-2007, 11:58 AM

I've said it before and I'll say it again, the unions in Boston have too much power.

PaulC

11-28-2007, 09:23 PM

Some info from the BRA:

http://www.cityofboston.gov/bra/images/11-27-ALL-sm-No-Photos.pdf

shiz02130

11-29-2007, 07:27 PM

There's a rendering of Hayward Place in the PDF - one that I don't recall seeing before...

statler

11-29-2007, 10:14 PM

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2062/2074459317_96e3e83e43_o.jpg

Padre Mike

11-29-2007, 10:16 PM

Roxxma

11-30-2007, 11:29 AM

Hmmm, trees on Bromfield St.?? It's one of the darkest streets in downtown. I would hate to see yet more trees wasted on certain streets of downtown; they will not thrive without light.
Some trees do quite well in shady areas, IE certain types of oak, some beeches as well some birches (admittedly, not really what most people think of as urban plantings, but I've seen birches and beech trees planted in urban areas in Northern Europe that seemed to thrive). I worked at a small urban park a few years back and was surprised at how well lindens and cork trees did in the shade (though portions of this park did have short periods of sunlight in the morning most times of the year, however that may have changed because some buildings have since been built on two sides).

aquaman

11-30-2007, 11:50 AM

Regarding the BRA PDF: Hmmm, trees on Bromfield St.?? It's one of the darkest streets in downtown. I would hate to see yet more trees wasted on certain streets of downtown; they will not thrive without light. And what's with the fabric canopy on Winter St.?....another very dim street needing all the light it can get from above. I hope these unrealistic renderings are not the final product.

My thoughts excatly. Aside from the inadequate light along Bromfield, why would anyone contemplate putting trees in there -- aren't the DTC/Ladder District sidewalks narrow enough already without adding more obstacles? Two people can barely walk abreast on some sidewalks.

As for the tarp covering DTC, that's just ridiculous. The last thing that area needs is more shade. If anything, they should add reflective mirrors on some of the higher buildings to shine some light into those tight streetscapes. *LOL

sidewalks

11-30-2007, 12:25 PM

Winter Street etc...

Those decorative tapestry/tarp concotions look ridiculous. I have a sinking feeling that the choice of street pavers will eventually be those crappy concrete things that crack and look like hell in a few years. The crosswalk by the orange line headhouse at the intersection of Franklin and Bromfield already looks lousy. The same will happen to the entire district if the do it on the cheap.

Ron Newman

11-30-2007, 12:38 PM

Anything you see now around Franklin and Bromfield is probably going to look very different once Filene's construction is finished.

underground

11-30-2007, 03:56 PM

Re: The BRA Brochure on DTX.
I laughed out loud when I read that they'd be nenaming Hobo Row, Shoppers Square.

Ron Newman

11-30-2007, 04:33 PM

I think that name (Shopper's Park) dates back to its creation, when Franklin Street was realigned to line up with Bromfield.

Lurker

11-30-2007, 08:49 PM

It was named that when Raymond's block was torn down for the new Woolworth building. It made a through-way with Bromfield Street and created a view towards the ornate Washington Street buildings. This was of course before cheap landlords started ripping off, rather than repairing, cornices and other ornament that were slowly making their way to the street below.

JimboJones

12-01-2007, 09:04 AM

If I read any more stories that include a discussion of how to deal with the pushcart vendors, my head will explode!!!!

Jesus, there are a handful of them and they sell shit!

whighlander

12-01-2007, 11:02 AM

Actually, I looked at the DTX pdf brochure and outside of the fabric roof -- it wasn't bad

I like the idea of geting rid of the street curbs and paving the entire surface at a uniform level {obviously there needs to be slope for drainage}

I think Downtown Crossing will be fine -- its just going to take a few years as the Filenes development, Province Place, Haywood Place and Tommy's Tower join the Millenium Towers -- there will be substantial pressures on the other owners in DTX to either upscale or sell to others who will upscale and redevelop.

AS a reference point -- When I was a student at MIT in the 70's a lot of the now fully gentrified BackBay was occupied by students. Even Newbury Street except for the Taj (ne Ritz) block -- was a lot like the today's Mass Ave. There was even a student dive restaurant {I think it was called the Engliseh Tea Room or some such -- that served communal salad and rolls while you were waiting for your server -- and hence if you were a really poor student -- you could get fed for free} within steps of the then Ritz.

If you look at Newbury St. today -- a scant 30 years -- it's a lot closer to Ritz than English Tea Room

DTX will similarly eveolve in then next 5 years -- just hide and watch

Westy

Ron Newman

12-01-2007, 11:40 AM

Is that desirable? I want Downtown Crossing to be busy and occupied again. I don't want it to go upscale. We have enough upscale in our city.

whighlander

12-01-2007, 11:57 AM

I doubt that its Newbury St or Copley Place upscale - more of the Boylston St-level upscaling

It inevitable -- you put several fairly expensive hotels, bunch of condos and perhaps some apartments in the professional price-range -- you will get people who don't want to live or visit a low-brow dump and the landlords and developers will respond.

Of course due to the easy T access to the rest of the city, Cambridge, Arlington, Somerville, Medford -- the mix of shops and victuals purveyors will be more eclectic than just high-end upscale

Westy

jass

12-01-2007, 03:35 PM

I think part of it needs a glass roof, it'll keep heat in during the winter and draw costumers. In the summer its simply there (with proper ventilation).

Ron Newman

12-01-2007, 11:46 PM

it'll ... draw costumers.

at Halloween?

briv

12-02-2007, 03:59 AM

Nothing drastic needs to be done to make DTX vital again. Re-open the streets to auto traffic and you'll see a difference overnight.

lexicon506

12-02-2007, 11:57 AM

I don't understand why some people keep insisting that DTX should be reopened to cars. What in the world do you think that would accomplish?? We would have more pollution, more noise, more angry drivers, and yet another set of congested roads in Boston. If that sounds like a lively environment to you, then go ahead and reopen DTX. But if you ask me, cars have done NOTHING to help cities since their invention in the early 1900s...That's not about to change.

vanshnookenraggen

12-02-2007, 01:40 PM

Cars add life just as people do. The problem is we decided that cars were better than people and started giving them more and more room. DTX does not have the room for a lot of cars so the traffic will always be manageable.

Think of it this way, if you made Newbury St pedestrian only the place would fall apart. I know it is hard for some people to see the point of cars in a city but they have just as much a right to be there as people, we just need to make the streets have a balanced approach to serving traffic.

Also remember people can be just as polluting. They throw their trash on the ground, spit gum, they can be really noisy (especially after last call).

Suffolk 83

12-02-2007, 05:56 PM

lexicon, opening a couple streets isnt going to cause more pollution, but I understand your point. I dont think it needs to be opened to cars, the lack of cars is most definately NOT the reason DTX is struggling. And I think the whole idea of DTX being dead is comlpetely overblown. Once Filenes tower gets built and the basement is back, the area will revive itself. The corner mall has gotta go though, or at least a major overhaul. That place blows.

lexicon506

12-02-2007, 06:15 PM

DTX does not have the room for a lot of cars so the traffic will always be manageable.

That's exactly the problem. Why do you think Boston is considered to be one of the most difficult American cities to drive in? Because we don't have room for all the cars that come into the city everyday! Boston's narrow and crooked streets, especially in downtown, make traffic the opposite of manageable. Opening DTX would encourage more drivers to enter the city and eliminate one of the few spots downtown where you can get away from traffic.

lexicon, opening a couple streets isnt going to cause more pollution

Stand at the middle of the intersection of Washington and Winter and take a gulp of air. Now, what would happen to the quality of that air if you were surrounded by cars, trucks, and buses?

Suffolk 83

12-02-2007, 07:15 PM

Are you really gonna say that as you walk down the street in any part of Boston you notice how bad the air quality is. That actually goes through your mind? Of course crossing the street in between cars you can get a strong "gulp" of exhaust or when a bus/truck goes by, you might get a whiff every now and then... I completely agree with you about the no cars thing in DTX, but that's a very transparent arguement if you ask me. Who won't go to DTX because cars give off exhaust. come on.

lexicon506

12-02-2007, 07:28 PM

Listen, all I'm saying is that every vehicle pollutes, and the more vehicles there are, the more polluted the air is. Are you going to deny that one too?

cden4

12-03-2007, 11:07 AM

bdurden

12-03-2007, 11:21 AM

The Lincoln Rd Mall in South Beach could provide Boston with a good approach--allow the cross streets (Summer, Franklin) to operate undisturbed by remaining open to vehicular traffic while permanently closing Washington and adding benches, tables, restaurant and kiosk space, and vegetation. Make the mall itself the destination--retail will naturally rebound.

KentXie

12-03-2007, 11:23 AM

I'm going to agree with lexicon here. If this area was open to traffic, the road will be congested thanks to the high pedestrian rate and the high traffic rate that will enter this area. Since the road is extremely narrow, it worsens the condition to the point that the cars will slowly move through DTX and thus create a havoc for pedestrians trying to cross the street and drivers trying to dodge the shoppers. I do not understand how cars will necessarily liven up the area either. What are the cars going to do? Drop people off to shop there? They can drop people off at the common of further down Washington Street. The 93 and 92 can drop passengers off near TJ Max. There is no need for cars here.

MKfan07

12-03-2007, 11:54 AM

Having been to a few European cities recently and having lived in London for three months I feel that it is a bad idea to open this street up to cars. There are A LOT of areas in London closed off to traffic that definitely get some of their charm and vibrancy because they are closed off to traffic. examples: Chinatown, Covent Garden (part of it reminds me a lot of Fanuel Hall) and Leicester Square. In Brussels they had a street that was closed off to traffic and was full of shops and retailers and that street saw loads of foot traffic.
I also have another idea for the kind of retailer that would be really good for that area, since I believe it is rumored that Zara is going to go in and considering the kind of retail I find that goes a long with Zara and H&M in Europe I would say someplace like an Urban Outfitters would fit well (I think beyond Boston most people see Urban Outfitters as a fashion store as opposed to a place to furnish an apartment as well). Also a more exciting idea is that Top Shop an amazing clothing store in London that Kate Moss is involved with is preparing to open three stores in Manhattan and wants to open a flagship store in Boston. DTX would be the perfect locale for it and would really liven up the area as a major shopping attraction. The clothes are bold and very high end looks but they also have lots of discount racks and all students get a 10% discount.
http://www.topshop.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/TopCategoriesDisplay?storeId=12556&catalogId=19551
here's a link to Top Shop to get a sense of the kinds of stuff they sell there.

Ron Newman

12-03-2007, 12:41 PM

I see no benefit whatsoever from having car traffic in Downtown Crossing. Even the police cars should not be there; the area should be patrolled entirely on foot or bicycle. The only proper time for motor vehicles in DTX is from 9 pm to 7 am, for deliveries.

tobyjug

12-03-2007, 02:13 PM

Indeed, part of the problem is that too many vehcles get in now. One is always looking over one's shoulder for fear of being run down. Better to enforce the current pedestrian only rules, and, in warmer weather, fill the street with outdoor dining.

commuter guy

12-03-2007, 03:59 PM

I was killing time at work today and was googling "downtown crossing" and found the wikipedia entry for downtown crossing which purports high end retailers are on the way. In pertinant part is states:

"Gucci has showed interest in opening up a 45,000 sq. ft. flagship in Downtown Crossing in the early part of 2008. The store is rumored to be three to four stories and merchandice should include men and womens ready to wear, couture, shoes, leather goods, assessories, furniture, and their full line of make up. (Milan News Ledger, October 10th, 2007)

Fendi has recenty signed a private lease deal to open up a 7,450 sq. ft. flagship in Downtown Crossing, this will be the U.S.'s second largest Fendi location after New York. Fendi has said that they plan on adding exclusive furs and ready to wear fashions to the store that are available only in exclusive boutiques as well as normal ready to wear for men and women, handbags, shoes, assessories, and fragrances. Newbury Street was their first target location, but no available space was adaquet. (WWD, September 3rd, 2006).

Stores such as H&M have also set up world flagship stores here. A small mall called Lafayette Place Mall was attached to the Jordan Marsh store in 1985; by 1992 the mall was closed. It has since been converted to offices.

Also located at Downtown Crossing is the Suffolk University Law School. The Downtown Crossing subway station directly serves Downtown Crossing. The State Street and Park Street stations are within walking distance. Silver Line service is also available."

Anyone heard any rumors to support this?

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Downtown_Crossing

awood91

12-03-2007, 04:33 PM

^ i hope that that news is bullshit because gucci and fendi have absolutely no place in downtown crossing. How much upscale retail can one city use? DTX really just needs to stay a lower-scale shopping center.

Ron Newman

12-03-2007, 04:46 PM

They would not be out of place in the Ritz Towers' currently-vacant storefronts.

Is our H&M really the chain's "world flagship" store?

Lrfox

12-03-2007, 07:08 PM

They would not be out of place in the Ritz Towers' currently-vacant storefronts.

Is our H&M really the chain's "world flagship" store?

I think that's written poorly. It is A flagship store, not THE flagship store. It's on par with other flagship H&Ms such as the one in Madrid (which is on a beautiful pedestrian only street and sees high volumes of customer traffic, but that's another point). I guess better phrasing would have been calling it a Category A branch, while you mostly see Category B and C branches in suburban malls.

daimio1

12-03-2007, 07:21 PM

i think downtown crossing is a good place for a "destination" type supermarket. something along the lines of dean and deluca in nyc or gelson's in socal

JimboJones

12-03-2007, 08:49 PM

High end tenants, great idea.

I believe that a market of any sort is no longer part of the Filene's building's plans.

Maybe next door?

stellarfun

12-04-2007, 05:58 AM

The Gucci story looks to be bogus. There is no Milan News Ledger newspaper. All the newspapers in Milan have nice Italian names, like Corriere della Sera. A search of Corriere through October past has no mention of a Gucci store; though there are stories about the Red Sox and a technologically futuristic bathroom designed by MIT.

statler

12-04-2007, 07:41 AM

Best definition of Wikipedia:
What you've proposed is a kind of quantum encyclopedia, where genuine data both exists and doesn't exist depending on the precise moment I rely upon your discordant fucking mob for my information.

LeTaureau

12-04-2007, 09:14 AM

I hope that this news on Gucci and Fendi is just a factoid. I don't think that the city needs more luxury retail - Copley Place and Newbury Street seem to handle that well. And, luxury retail at DTX is not what the mayor had planned for this area. I remember Menino touting the area as a place where ordinary people could take the red or orange lines into the city to shop.

kmp1284

12-04-2007, 01:01 PM

It's not about what the MayorforLife wants, it's about what the market can sustain, and if Gucci and Fendi think DTX could work for them, that would be wonderful. I would love to see that area become a true destination rather than the rat trap it is now.

Suffolk 83

12-04-2007, 01:20 PM

"Rat trap" is a little unfair. Not everything can be Newbury St.

Bos77

12-04-2007, 01:53 PM

Not everything can be Newbury St.

Nor should it be!

kmp1284

12-04-2007, 01:56 PM

I'm not saying it can be Newbury, but cleaning it up with some worthwhile retail is a very noble cause.

PaulC

12-04-2007, 03:13 PM

If you look at Winter Street, which does not have curbs, people walk all over the street. Washington St has curbs and most people walk on the sidewalks.

I think it would be a disaster to open the streets to traffic during the day. At night however I think traffic would have the opposite effect, it would create a more vibrant area. Traffic would also add a lot of security and convenience. People could be dropped of by cab right at restaurants, stores or clubs. It does not have to be all the streets, could be Washington only or just he cross streets.

chumbolly

12-04-2007, 03:19 PM

^Hear, hear, on the worthwhile retail, but Gucci and Fendi? Only a very small slice of the population can afford to shop at those places. They certainly wouldn't draw in a large number of people to actually shop. Now, a store selling knock-off Gucci and Fendi--that would bring the crowds.

palindrome

12-04-2007, 03:20 PM

Lets edit the wikipedia and correct it then. I am going to start by adding the new tower and the suffolk purchase. Everyone feel free to help.

statler

12-04-2007, 03:26 PM

Ron Newman

12-04-2007, 03:44 PM

While you're editing the Wikipedia, Suffolk Law School is not in Downtown Crossing by any reasonable definition of that district.

PaulC

12-04-2007, 05:10 PM

I'm still undecided about the pedestrian only plan, but you argue that car traffic has the added benefit of forcing people on to the sidewalks and adding to sense of 'hustle & bustle' a la Times Square.
Spreading people out across wide streets like Washington could lead to a duller, slower, less vibrant feeling, especially during off-peak times.

Crowds are a big problem in Times Sq. Many of the office buildings are trying to figure how to get thier employees and guest in and out of their building because the crowds are so thick. I believe some are already looking to relocate to the rail yards on the west side when that is built up.

I always walk around Times Square because it's faster and easier than going through. Don't forget a good deal of the people are looking up at signs or taking pictures.

I don't know what the status is, but a few years ago I read that there was talk of converting a street to a pedestrian and trolley only. I think 34th st.

But when Matthew Jones of Brooklyn lingered on the corner of 42nd Street and Seventh Avenue in the early morning of June 12, 2004, gabbing with friends as other pedestrians tried to get by, something unusual happened: He was arrested for it.
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/18/nyregion/18movealong.html?_r=2&oref=slogin

Padre Mike

12-04-2007, 08:49 PM

I recall vividly shopping at Jordan's as a child in the 60's. Traffic was an utter nightmare then, especially in the winter, with snow piled up everywhere. If vehicular traffic is once again permitted I hope the sidewalks will be increased in width and the road reduced to one travel lane and intermittent parking. On most days, the hustle and bustle of the sidewalks north of Summer/Winter Sts. is already a chore to negotiate. South of this intersection, it's a ghost-town, and I wonder what's being planned to foster businesses and restaurants that will attract lingering crowds.

nico

12-05-2007, 04:41 PM

People here are always talking about DTC being dead. Yes there are a lot of vacant storefronts right now, but as far as foot traffic goes, even w/out the business the area is packed w/people. As it is I don't like the current number of cops and utility workers that feel the need to drive up Washington St., and it would be impossible to allow cars on Summer. Once the area developments are complete and business begins to pick up, it will be impossible to allow cars anywhere near downtown crossing.

palindrome

12-09-2007, 06:06 PM

Ok, i changed the wikipedia, but i need more info. I removed all the perceived misinformation, but i know i missed alot of info too. What else should i add?

whighlander

12-18-2007, 11:58 AM

Best definition of Wikipedia:
Quote:
What you've proposed is a kind of quantum encyclopedia, where genuine data both exists and doesn't exist depending on the precise moment ....

That's a slur and a gross misunderstanding of the Quantum World.

While Herr Doctor Professor Heisenberg’s eponymous Principle specifies a bounded uncertainty -- it is the product of two complementary parameters that allow the interesting stuff that permits other interesting stuff such as the Transistor {60 years old this week} and Life itself.

Westy

whighlander

12-18-2007, 12:10 PM

A very practical solution is ban traffic of any kind {except absolute emergency vehicles} until all of the public venues have closed for the evening

Then DTX would be pedestrian friendly M-F 8:00 AM to 2:00 AM and car and mostly delivery vehicle friendly from 2:00 AM until 8:00 AM

I'd expand the pedestrian zone until it was bounded by two major thoroughfares Tremont to the West and Congress St. to the East with some minor exceptions to permit the 9-5 crowd with access to the underground parking garages.

Krakow does this around its Medieval era Rynek Glowny {Main Market Square} with 3 levels of auto exclusion:
1) a zone for people, dog, horses and emergency vehicles
2) a zone for passing through of vehicles -- but no parking except with special very limited permits -- so there are no cars circling looking for parking – but some cars passing through to drop off people and access the peripheral area
3) a zone of limited parking and unlimited vehicle access just on the edge of the "Modern City" where everything is permitted

I think it would work for Boston at DTX and also around the Faneuil Hall Quincy Market district

Westy

justin

12-18-2007, 03:55 PM

While Herr Doctor Professor Heisenberg’s eponymous Principle specifies a bounded uncertainty -- it is the product of two complementary parameters that allow the interesting stuff that permits other interesting stuff such as the Transistor {60 years old this week} and Life itself.

Westy

It sure describes my life: if I have the energy, I don't have the time; once I get the position, I lose momentum...

whighlander

12-26-2007, 11:16 AM

Justin

Well said "if I have the energy, I don't have the time; once I get the position, I lose momentum..."

And once I get the momentum -- I never quite now where I'm going to end-up {although that's also a true in 19th century classical mechanics of a statistical nature}.

Anyway -- I was down in DTX recently and while less active than in the past and even recently -- there was still the feeling of "Christmas Bustle" around Macy's and Borders

As today is "Boxing Day" and traditionally in the US the day to return the ties and socks that one didn't want -- perhaps it is bustling today as well.

Westy

JoeGallows

02-20-2008, 10:47 AM

I hate to drag up an older thread, but I couldn't find the thread with the discussion about the former, one-story CVS building on Washinton St. across from the Jewler's Building. The search showed zero results when searching 'CVS.'

Anyway, I had a you've-got-to-be-kidding-me moment walking by it to class. It looks like we'll getting another Verizon Wireless store. Hoo-ray! :rolleyes:

kz1000ps

02-20-2008, 10:57 AM

...great. Now I have to walk all the way to Pi Alley to find a CVS. What's this world coming to?

statler

02-20-2008, 11:01 AM

^^ No, you're cool. They just reopened a brand-new one across the street in the Jewelers Building. :rolleyes:

And a Verizon store. Oh goodie, that'll bring DTX springing back to life, what with all the suburbanites flooding the city to get their hands on a new Razr.

Ron Newman

02-20-2008, 11:13 AM

You can take a 10-minute walk through downtown and walk by seven CVS stores (and no competing pharmacies). Center Plaza, two on upper Washington street, Milk Street, Summer Street just beyond Macy's, Tremont Street opposite the Common, and finally Washington at Boylston in Chinatown.

nico

02-20-2008, 11:15 AM

Anybody know why they didn't put the Loews Theater on the Washington St. side of the building instead of on Tremont? Seems to me it would've made for a cool stretch along with the renovated Paramount and Opera House.

kz1000ps

02-20-2008, 11:20 AM

^ It's a shame they didn't (put the Loews on Wash), because all the tourists that wander on down that way always look so lost. Hopefully whatever will go in the base of the development across the street (arg.. its name is on the tip of my tongue) will have something worthwhile in it.

^^ No, you're cool. They just reopened a brand-new one across the street in the Jewelers Building. :rolleyes:

Oh, phew! I was starting to break out into a sweat for a moment there..

statler

02-20-2008, 11:29 AM

Yes but the real tragedy is that there are ZERO Dunkin Donuts on that block!
You either have to walk alllll the way down Milk St, near P.O. Square or walk allll the way to Pi Alley to get your Dunk's fix.

Ron Newman

02-20-2008, 11:53 AM

The Loews cineplex has a lot more visibility where it is, being across from Boston Common. It was built on the site of the former Astor (Tremont) Theatre, by the way.

02-20-2008, 07:54 PM

ChitchIII

02-21-2008, 08:01 AM

Porta Classica Menswear is getting ready to clear out. It's in a two story building sandwiched between two much larger buildings, south of (towards Chinatown) the Washington/Summer intersection at 467 Washington St.

Ya, and the reason they are leaving is that their lease is not being renewed.... interesting I would say.

kz1000ps

02-27-2008, 03:06 AM

"the tears aren't coming; the tears just aren't coming!"

http://img441.imageshack.us/img441/8036/img1786aw8.jpg

vanshnookenraggen

02-27-2008, 10:05 AM

"It looks like he's dead."
"Wait, he is dead or he just looks like he's dead?"
"It just looks like he's dead; he's got blue paint all over him."

Ok... back to architecture.

kz1000ps

02-27-2008, 03:13 PM

"It looks like he's dead."
"Wait, he is dead or he just looks like he's dead?"
"It just looks like he's dead; he's got blue paint all over him."

Lol, awesome Van. Best new show of the decade..

(the new format Top Gear comes in a close second)

AdamBC

03-15-2008, 11:22 PM

A site with so much potential (could at least hide the hideous parking garage)... and we get a Verizon store... seems like a bit of a waste.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2018/2336660448_fa43cdabec_o.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/24786860@N08/2336660448/sizes/o/ )

vanshnookenraggen

05-20-2008, 02:26 AM

Retailers, restaurants eyeing Hub
Menino promotes city at Vegas event

Globe Staff / May 20, 2008

Popular apparel discounter Steve & Barry's is aggressively scouting Boston locations, including the former Barnes & Noble space in Downtown Crossing, to open a shop in the city within the next two years, according to Mayor Thomas M. Menino.
more stories like this

Steve & Barry's executives met yesterday in Las Vegas with Menino, who returned to Sin City for his annual trip to promote the Hub at the International Council of Shopping Centers convention. Founded in 1985, Steve & Barry's operates over 260 stores in 38 states, and has struck partnerships with celebrities, including basketball star Stephon Marbury and fashion icon and actress Sarah Jessica Parker, to offer collections that largely retail for under $10.

"They're serious about coming to Boston soon," Menino said in a phone interview from Vegas. "They are visiting the city in early July to meet with us and look at some sites."

Steve & Barry's recently opened a flagship store in Manhattan on Broadway, a space previously occupied by Tower Records.

"We are looking forward to touring the city of Boston and working with the mayor's office in order to find great locations so that we can best serve our customers," said Doug Calvin, Steve & Barry's director of real estate. "At the moment, we are looking forward to opening our first Boston area location at the Liberty Tree Mall in Danvers this summer and hope to have more locations to announce over the coming year."

During his Vegas jaunt yesterday, Menino also met with cosmetics giant Ulta which is scoping out space in West Roxbury and Downtown Crossing, including the former HMV record store space on Winter Street. Ulta, one of the largest beauty retailers in the country, is planning to open more than 60 stores this year and dozens more next year, according to Susan Elsbree, a spokeswoman for the Boston Redevelopment Authority who met with store executives.

An Ulta spokeswoman confirmed that the retailer is interested in coming to Boston and discussed several locations with Menino.

Meanwhile, Menino said yesterday that Morton's Restaurant Group Inc., which recently opened a second Boston steakhouse, at the Seaport, is interested in a third location at the redeveloped Filene's complex in Downtown Crossing.

Mike Wood of Tavistock Restaurants also confirmed to Menino yesterday that the company had signed a deal to lease space on the waterfront at the former Jimmy's Harborside Restaurant. Wood, in an interview, said the restaurant group would open ZED 451, a high-end restaurant in 2010 as part of the redeveloped space.

Noodle bar Wagamama, which has opened stores in Faneuil Hall and Harvard Square, is also negotiating for a space in the Prudential Center, in one of the Talbot's clothing stores that is closing.

"We expect to reach a deal soon with the Prudential Center and we're hoping to open within the next year," said Ed McGraw, vice president of development for Wagamama.

Menino also met with Pinkberry, a California-based frozen yogurt franchise, that is eyeing potential locations in the Back Bay, Downtown Crossing, and Fenway areas. Discounter Payless ShoeSource is considering a site in Faneuil Hall and one in Hyde Park, and LA Fitness International is close to signing a deal for a West Roxbury gym off the VFW Parkway, according to Elsbree.

Jenn Abelson can be reached at abelson@globe.com.

Link (http://www.boston.com/business/articles/2008/05/20/retailers_restaurants_eyeing_hub/ )

riffgo

05-20-2008, 03:08 AM

Good, but what we really need is a major full-service department store.

Mike

05-20-2008, 11:11 AM

can someone merge this thread into the other, larger downtown crossing thread?

http://www.archboston.org/community/showthread.php?t=1042&page=39

vanshnookenraggen

05-20-2008, 01:20 PM

Done.

BarbaricManchurian

06-19-2008, 04:48 PM

I wish we can have this kind of urban vitality every day. The crowds look nice, even if its only for a day :(.

mdd

06-19-2008, 05:07 PM

I wish we can have this kind of urban vitality every day. The crowds look nice, even if its only for a day :(.

Once both housing towers are complete and some more diversified retail / commercial and quality restaurants move in, I think it will be much more animated. I used to work down there and during commute times and lunchtime Downtown Crossing was very active. It was so interesting the crowd was so diverse that I saw businessmen and vagrants sharing the sidewalk, daily. I miss working downtown a lot.

Meadowhawk

06-20-2008, 08:03 PM

The old Barnes and Noble could sure use a facelift. I hope something decent goes in there.

Pierce

06-23-2008, 11:15 PM

I wish we can have this kind of urban vitality every day. The crowds look nice, even if its only for a day :(.

Seriously? I challenge you to find a day when the crowd isn't like that for at least 3 or 4 hours. You'd be hard pressed to find a more active pedestrian district in the city. Of course it's not a white enough crowd for the mayor, is that the problem?

Ron Newman

06-23-2008, 11:20 PM

The problem is, most days after 7 pm you could roll a bowling ball down the middle of Washington Street without hitting a pedestrian.

BarbaricManchurian

06-24-2008, 08:16 AM

Seriously? I challenge you to find a day when the crowd isn't like that for at least 3 or 4 hours. You'd be hard pressed to find a more active pedestrian district in the city. Of course it's not a white enough crowd for the mayor, is that the problem?

Yes, everyday. There might be some people passing through DTX, but Asian-style crowds only appear on major events, plus the district shuts down at night. The new condos will help alleviate that, but DTX isn't the most vibrant spot in Boston. I would say Chinatown is, it always has a huge crowd, street vendors, honking horns, construction noise, tons of pedestrians and seedy establishments, its like a slice of a much larger city (and no one complains about the vitality either, unlike in Back Bay or Beacon Hill, those two districts seem positively ultra-quiet by comparison).

Suffolk 83

06-24-2008, 10:12 AM

What the heck is an "asian-style crowd"? lol. DTX is packed in the afternoon mon-fri. The difference between that pic during the celts parade and the average sunny wednesday at 1pm is negligible

BarbaricManchurian

06-24-2008, 10:39 AM

^^crowds like in Asian cities

BostonObserver

06-24-2008, 07:34 PM

Of course it's not a white enough crowd for the mayor, is that the problem?

What the hell does this stupid ass comment mean.

Lurker

06-24-2008, 08:04 PM

Pierce

06-24-2008, 09:16 PM

Trolling for racial comments methinks. The ethnicity of the young thugs, which put off some shoppers from Downtown Crossing, is actually fairly diverse. They hang around without doing much, beyond trying to look tough to impress their peers, and eating at Corner Mall food court. An increase in pedestrian activity is going to make it more difficult to stand around all day and they'll find other places to congregate.

trauling, perhaps. not trolling though, I'll stand by it. What I reference is Menino's emphasis a year ago or so about "revitalizing" downtown crossing and his choice of other words which indicated that DTX was somehow failing as an urban space--which is obviously just plain wrong, lest we indict every public space in the city under such lofty standards. Really it was his way of getting around what he meant: that Hip Zepi USA and "urban" shops that sell the then-popular "stop snitchin" shirts, flashy sneakers, etc., and the crowds they attract, were not the type of vitality that he was looking for for the district

KentXie

06-24-2008, 10:28 PM

^^ And where's your proof of this?

tobyjug

06-24-2008, 10:37 PM

Most of these "thugs" are just kids. Never had a problem with any of them. You treat them with respect, they treat you with respect. Just like everyone else. Biggest problem with the Corner Mall is the food sucks and is over priced ($9.50 for 2 slices of pepperoni and a Pepsi at Sbarro...right.) Those Filenes renderings of the rosy future were looking mighty white. I swear some of the folks had plaid shorts and Lacoste shirts. Its the city, man, not White Fish Bay, Wisconsin.

BostonObserver

06-24-2008, 10:56 PM

Pierce

06-24-2008, 11:14 PM

^^ And where's your proof of this?

Sorry, after searching in vain for the "footnote reference" button I remembered that this is a public bulletin board, and I was opining. I don't have proof that this was motivation for saying (to the best of my recollection, I'm not hitting the library for this) that DTX was "tired" and needed "revitalized". "Tired" could describe the absolute best among our public infrastructure. Certainly DTX is a bit dated looking, with furniture and details out of "Entourage" (the 70s design drawing source, not the tv show), but it works brilliantly. How is it more in need of revitalization than the decrepit common and its non-functioning fountain of piss and pigeons? Hizzoner's brick parking lot? The crumbling plaza turned VIP-parking for state services employees heading to the Celtics' game? The bridge that had to literally start falling into the water + a sidewalk to be registered as a public hazard + the red line forced to go 5mph before a city truck would stop to pay attention?

I know Menino will eat whatever Ken Greenberg has in hand (to be honest, so would I) but really a strategy that focuses on revitalizing an area that is bursting with vitality when much of the area surround it lags leaves itself open to conjecture, and my [admittedly rash] suggestion gains resonance as our suburban mayor turns a blind eye (or at least checkbook) towards areas that are disproportionately represented by minorities and have had an upsweep in violence while he plans for 1000 foot towers and waterfront palaces

Lurker

06-24-2008, 11:17 PM

Hip Zepi USA isn't an "Urban" store by any means, every kid who listens to hip hop and rap from the boonies, burbs, slums to mum's luxury high-rise wears that stuff. There is absolutely nothing "urban" in the fashion it caters too and I personally detest "urban" being used to label whatever some idiot fashion director for a music video decides to put his cast in.

DTX Doesn't work brilliantly, if you look at photos of the place prior to 1978, you'd understand what far more lively place it was 1890-1978. The area is a run down embarrassment of asphalt sidewalks, filth, vacant storefronts, and vagrants. The place was once a mecca for shopping for everyone from the yankee elite to the poorest of the poor. Now its a low rent dump of pawn shops, t-shirts, and other cheap garbage. DTX needs its middle and upper class component back. Not at the expense of all the low rent business, but as a compliment to it.

Pierce

06-24-2008, 11:19 PM

Ron Newman

06-24-2008, 11:34 PM

DTX needs (a) retail vacancies filled (hello, Barnes & Noble), and (b) stores, restaurants, bars, theatres, and clubs that stay open late at night. Fix these two things, and everything else will fix itself.

Suffolk 83

06-25-2008, 08:21 AM

I think Ron is on the right track.

BostonObserver, I've never heard of anybody with that problem, my thoughts are if your trying to stick out, your gonna. I've walked through DTX at all times of days dressed in everything from a full suit to a golf shirt and khakis to a backwards black baseball cap, tims and baggy jeans hundreds of times. Its gotta be something your doing.

I would love to see how many people are wishing for up-scale development here and at the same time drone on and on in that bs thread "is Boston built for babies?"

statler

06-25-2008, 08:33 AM

I would love to see how many people are wishing for up-scale development here and at the same time drone on and on in that bs thread "is Boston built for babies?"

Gentrification vs grit. The most fascinating yet infuriating debate in all of urban planning.

Suffolk 83

06-25-2008, 08:42 AM

BosDevelop

06-25-2008, 08:58 AM

which indicated that DTX was somehow failing as an urban space--which is obviously just plain wrong

Have you seen all the empty storefronts in and around Downtown Crossing? Some days when I walk through it appears as though there are more vacant storefronts than occupied ones. The area is a success in that it offers tons of fast food establishments and a place for kids and young adults to congregate. As much else, I personally think it is a failure.

Pierce

06-25-2008, 09:21 AM

Have you seen all the empty storefronts in and around Downtown Crossing? Some days when I walk through it appears as though there are more vacant storefronts than occupied ones. The area is a success in that it offers tons of fast food establishments and a place for kids and young adults to congregate. As much else, I personally think it is a failure.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'd love to see how many of those were vacant before/after the Filene's project (part of the "revitalization") was announced. Maybe my memory is cloudy, but I don't remember many empty storefronts there in 2005

bosdevelopment

06-25-2008, 10:07 AM

I'm not sure grit is the word I'd use, but I follow.

Toby, the Asian place in the CornerMall on the far left against the back wall isnt bad and its 4.50 a plate? double the chicken for 50cents extra! Cheaper than McD's or Wendy's

That entire food court is disgusting, except for the place that makes gyros. (And McDonald's and Dunkin' Donuts)

Suffolk 83

06-25-2008, 10:56 AM

Eh, its no worse than anyother food court. Maybe it looks disgusting, especially if you've ever eaten downstairs.

BostonObserver

06-25-2008, 11:25 AM

I've been harassed while wearing a shirt and tie and while wearing jerseys and jeans. Just because it hasn't happen to you does not make me a lyer or mean that there is no problem. Why do you think they put in a mini police station right there. Apparently if I was trying to 'stick out' then I deserve to get shoved around and have a lit cigarette thrown at me.

Lurker

06-25-2008, 11:56 AM

There's been a police kiosk at 100% Corner since the 1910s if you look through old photos. The number of shoppers, vehicles, and pedestrians in the area has made it necessary for reasons of public safety since then.

The storefront vacancies have been getting progressively worse since the early 80s. Bromfield used to be a camera lovers dream in addition to many framing and luggage stores. West, Avon, & Temple, used to have a variety of small stores from fruits, cutlery, wigs, buttons, books, real army navy surplus, tobacco, toys, etc. The area once had life all the way down to the Combat Zone with stores on all the streets branching off Washington and it has withered away to 100% corner.

More cafes, clubs, or restaurants which stay open later, and a few middle to upper class stores would add enough activity and socioeconomic mix to fix the problems of the area.

Cleanliness of the streets, actually having non asphalt sidewalks, and storefronts that didn't look look like a bad part of Beruit would probably help too. If the sidewalks and pedestrian streets (Winter Street only please) were redone in modular stone block like what is used in many cities in Italy, which is easily cleaned and removed/replaced for utility work, that would do wonders. If Washington was reopened to all traffic but paved with a modular cobblestone system along the lines of euro-cobble (to naturally slow down traffic) but flush crosswalks for all the carts, wheelchairs, and divas in high heels, it would add more activity at all hours.

Perception of an area is often defined by its upkeep, if it looks well kept people will be more apt to want to be there.

BostonObserver

06-25-2008, 12:44 PM

I believe they made a big deal about put it in in the 80's or early 90's. I don't think it's been there the whole time.

Ron Newman

06-25-2008, 12:58 PM

Perhaps some of what the city does for outlying retail districts (e.g. Roslindale Village Main Streets) needs to be directed to this downtown area as well. Get the existing retailers and commercial landlords together and find ways to lease all that empty space. Vacant stores don't pay rent.

JimboJones

06-25-2008, 01:02 PM

You said, "Perception of an area is often defined by its upkeep."

Guess we can call it the "Dirty Windows" theory, similar to "Broken Windows", right?

Ron Newman

06-25-2008, 01:10 PM

That is one of the things that a Main Streets program addresses -- the exterior appearance of storefronts.

Lurker

06-25-2008, 04:03 PM

Yeah I guess Jimbo... to be honest I think the biggest improvements to 100% Corner in recent years was So Good Jewelers' storefronts and Macy's implementation of street level windows.

If all the storefronts were maintained, some effort was put into graphic design, and thin vertical or horizontal facade signs were stressed instead of the typical square block signs, it would make a big difference. Tellos and Barnes & Nobel really need to have their 2nd floor windows exposed, even if they are blacked out or contain advertising. The recently uncovered buildings on Winter Street look hundreds of times better as a result of this.

The better the street looks, the more people are wiling to walk down it, and it becomes more enticing it is to retailers to lease there.

In the USSR, and from the photos I've seen of poor areas here in the US, poor neighborhoods always looked the same and there was one easy way to tell if was a bad area instead of just a poor one. If there was litter, no one cared about the neighborhood and it would be a place to expect trouble. If it was clean, no matter how in ill repair the buildings were and how poor the people were, people had enough pride in their neighborhood to not be committing crime.

statler

06-25-2008, 04:13 PM

100% Corner?

Lurker

06-25-2008, 04:59 PM

The intersection of Winter/Summer/Washington once was the longstanding most valuable retail and office space in the country. Having three major (and elegant) department stores connected directly to two major subways (which at the time were lovely ornate tile and not vynil clab urinals), with downtown and other subway connections nearby made it the "hub" of the hub. The occupancy rate was always 100% due to the perceived value and demand for the space. As result 100% corner was the real estate nickname for the intersection.

When one thinks of what is left of Gilchrists shell, Filenes no more, and Jordan Marsh's grand old store demolished, it gives you an idea of how run down the area has become.

statler

06-25-2008, 05:00 PM

^^Cool, thanks. Learn something new everyday.

Ron Newman

06-25-2008, 05:29 PM

I did not know that Gilchrist once connected to the subway. Is any remnant of that connection still visible?

JimboJones

06-25-2008, 05:45 PM

Regarding boarded-up storefronts, they could always start doing what they did in Lynn, several years ago - paint the boards to look like the interiors of the shops, complete with people.

Lurker

06-25-2008, 06:43 PM

I'm not sure if Gilchrist's was directly connected to Washington Station. The store closed within months of me arriving in Boston and I had only really poked around inside 2-3 times when it was open to get free macaroons. In the station, the tunnel to Park Street runs directly under Winter Street with the fare area, underpass stairs, and platform running snugly against Gilchrist's basement. Since everything except the closet door, to the right of the stairs where the tile is painted, has been covered in 'modernized' garbage it's hard to tell if there was ever a direct opening similar Jordan Marsh & Filene's.

I really think a rehabbed Gilchrist's building with a major retailer on the lower floors, with rentals or condos above could be a major shot in the arm for the area. Tearing down Lafayette place to reconnect West Street to Bedford, with a new Macy's under a One Franklin style tower, and development down to the Essex Washington Building....essentially rebuilding the crummy street wall vertically and re-knitting the streets. The whole mess has needed a sane and comprehensive master plan for decades and considering the lack of a brain-trust at the BRA and investment into improvements, I'm holding my breath. One Franklin and 45 Province Street are going to help significantly, but there are so many little issues that need to be addressed that probably won't because of our balkanized bureaucratic patronage system.

Ron Newman

06-26-2008, 12:01 AM

The pedestrian tunnel between Park Street and Downtown Crossing stations was built at the same time as the Red Line, but was not opened for public use until some time in the late 1970s -- Wikipedia says 1978. By that time, I think Gilchrist's had already closed.

tobyjug

06-26-2008, 07:02 PM

That's bull. Just because it doesn't happen to you doesn't mean it doesn't happen. I've been harassed on several occasions. I've seen this same stupid response on this topic over and over again. I have friends who have also been harassed by groups of kids in down town crossing.

I've also been harasses by a group of white kids in the common, or perhaps i must be dreaming because that never happened to you either

That hasn't happened to me either. Guess punks fear the Toby.

It doesn't matter what you wear, B.O., unless you're always wearing a bad attitude.

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh109/tobyjug_2008/L10707352-1.jpg

whighlander

06-28-2008, 02:34 AM

RE: Tunnels and Connections

The T is a massive hodgepodge of old and formerly used connections and tunnels (pedestrian and vehicular) including several bricked-up under passes on the Green Line that have been rediscovered in the process of the current platform raising at Arlington and Copley. Of course there is the un-used former Green Line grade-separated connection at Boylston that once was the launching point for another branch line.

On the pedestrian front -- Several major buildings (mostly department stores such as Kennedys) used to connect directly to the Green and Red Line in the DTX area as well as a couple of connections to the Orange Line -- most are now closed

However, the one tunnel that never existed (as far as I know) -- and which should be done now -- is to connect the Orange Line platforms of State and DTX (thereby integrating Park Street with State via DTX) -- the Filenes (Franklin St) tower construction makes this particularly easy access-wise -- but I've never heard of any plan to do it

Westy

Ron Newman

06-28-2008, 08:50 AM

I'd love to see that connection made. The problem is that the southbound State (Milk) platform is left-side, while the southbound Downtown Crossing platform, a few hundred feet away, is right-side.

whighlander

06-28-2008, 08:59 AM

Ron,

It does pose some 3D tunnel design and construction challenges -- however that's why we now have 3D design software and modern tunnel jacking a such tools.

I would expect that to make it work that you might need to come up from below on escalators and elevators connecting the two platforms to a common mall-like hall located below and to one side

However the benefits are extraordinary -- you suddenly have a walkable weather-proof link between State Street (Orange and Blue) with DTX and Park Street -- the long wished for goal of linking the Red and Blue Lines!

Westy

jass

06-28-2008, 03:13 PM

Boston does need a more extensive tunnel system. It would encourage more people to shop downtown if they could move about underground in the winter. Or else, theyd just go to a warm mall.

AdamBC

06-29-2008, 06:36 PM

Boston does need a more extensive tunnel system. It would encourage more people to shop downtown if they could move about underground in the winter. Or else, theyd just go to a warm mall.

I agree, it wouldn't be easy, but if more buildings were attached to a tunnel system that tied into the T, people would be better able to move around the system the 50% of the year that it is raining/snowing/15 degrees outside.

statler

07-09-2008, 07:33 AM

Boston Herald - July 9, 2008
Hub hopes logo, Web site boost business area
By Donna Goodison | Wednesday, July 9, 2008 | http://www.bostonherald.com | Media & Marketing
http://multimedia.heraldinteractive.com/images/4f718e9274_crossinglogo_07092008.jpg
Downtown Crossing has a new logo, and the city has launched a searchable Web site of commercial properties for sale or lease throughout the Hub.

Both were unveiled yesterday by Boston Mayor Thomas Menino, who hosted the first leg of an “Experience Boston” tour of the city’s retail opportunities prior to the International Council of Shopping Centers’ Boston Idea Exchange.

With 60 projects worth $4 billion under construction in Boston, the city’s economy is growing despite national economic uncertainty, Menino told the assembled retailers, brokers and developers.

With microphone in hand, the mayor led the tour from the future site of Hayward Place on Washington Street to Bromfield and Province streets. Along the way, he singled out improvements such as new greenery-filled planters and open retail spaces, including the recently vacated Porta Classica and Casual Male locations.

Companies on the tour included 1-800-Flowers, Aveda, Chipotle, Wagamama, Planet Fitness, Yum! Brands, Boloco, Chunky’s Cinema Pub and Foodie’s Urban Market. Ulta Salon, Cosmetics & Fragrance hopes to open a Boston location in the next six to 24 months.

“You’ve got an established retail corridor, which is hopefully on the incline,” said Dave Rayner, Ulta’s vice president of real estate. “It’s growing, plus you have huge pedestrian traffic there.”

The new Downtown Crossing logo is now plastered on the street between Macy’s and the former Filene’s building and wrapped around the police kiosk that city officials hope to turn into an information booth. Businesses are being encouraged to use the logo in their marketing as the city and Downtown Crossing Partnership push forward with an economic improvement initiative.

The city’s new Web tool is www.bostonprospector.com. In addition to locating 300-plus available Boston commercial properties, users can analyze demographic and business data and link to city agencies for zoning and tax information.
Article URL: http://www.bostonherald.com/business/media/view.bg?articleid=1105860

It's gimmicky, but I like it. It has got a certain European vibe to it.

briv

07-09-2008, 08:12 AM

Did the city actually pay someone to come up with logo? Good lord. I give it a month.

Suffolk 83

07-09-2008, 09:34 AM

Lol I got a good laugh over that logo. Doesn't the word Down give a negative connotation? The logo and the colors remind me of the corner mall, and that aint a good thing. Somebody got a C in marketing 101. If your gonna shorten it up to try and jazz it up, lose the crossing, keep the cross (aka crossing), put the words down and town in a cross except center the midpoint higher and to the right more so the O's are the same and it doesn't make it seem like your going to church. And get some modern feeling colors, jesus christo. Would look good on those lightpole "flags" cities like so much days.

statler

07-09-2008, 09:41 AM

^^ Looks like they a shooting for that retro 70's design look the kids are all into nowadays.

underground

07-09-2008, 09:45 AM

Maybe it's just my monitor, but those colors have some sort of Filmore Auditorium Concert Poster circa 1968 vibe going on. It looks like they just plastered "Downtown Crossing" over "Big Brother and the Holding Company @ 9".

unterbau

07-09-2008, 09:45 AM

Wow, harsh. Seems like they're moving away from the fancy dept store feel and aiming at a younger mindset. If they really want to revitalize the area, it seems like they'll need some non-chains. They can't really compete with the malls, so why not go a different direction?

On another note, has there been any talk about getting cars completely out of the Downtown Crossing Area? It seems like pedestrians have already taken over the streets anyway, but making the streets into walkways would allow for even more street vendors.

statler

07-09-2008, 09:50 AM

I missed this:

Companies on the tour included 1-800-Flowers, Aveda, Chipotle, Wagamama, Planet Fitness, Yum! Brands, Boloco, Chunky’s Cinema Pub and Foodie’s Urban Market. Ulta Salon, Cosmetics & Fragrance hopes to open a Boston location in the next six to 24 months.

A Chunky's would be nice, but 1800Flowers? Chipotle? Yum!Brands? Ugh. :P

I think we need to start another ArchBoston meme:

Better than another jewelry store.

stellarfun

07-09-2008, 09:50 AM

A quick glance and to me it reads Crosstown Crossing.

unterbau

07-09-2008, 10:21 AM

A quick glance and to me it reads Crosstown Crossing.

I'm getting an intense craving for phillips head screws.

Lurker

07-09-2008, 10:52 AM

My eyes! The goggles do nothing!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uE9Dgp4zlPg

JimboJones

07-09-2008, 11:47 AM

Your anus says what?

From yesterday's Globe article:

The Midwood development is the latest in a buzz of development to hit Downtown Crossing. The city estimated there are 2,900 residential units in the neighborhood, with 1,350 more under construction, including college dorms.

Indeed, Menino kicked off his walking tour of Downtown Crossing at the Hayward Place parking lot on Washington Street, where a $200 million, 14-story residential and retail building is planned.

Hayward Place??????????? BEEEEE SEERIOUSSSSSS!

tobyjug

07-09-2008, 01:40 PM

Feel the buzz.

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh109/tobyjug_2008/L10901522.jpg

statler

07-11-2008, 01:54 PM

Along the way, he singled out improvements such as new greenery-filled planters

Has anyone else seen these?

Does anyone else agree with me that they look like shit?

commuter guy

07-11-2008, 02:15 PM

^^^

Yes, now that you mention it, I noticed them while walking thru Downtown Crossing this morning. There huge to the point that they are somewhat of a sidewalk obstruction (I was walking next to other pedestrians and had to fall back when my path was blocked by these round planters). I saw three of them grouped together on the street corner in front of CVS (Summer and Chauncy Streets). The sidewalk is fairly wide so you can pretty much walk around them, but they are fairly large.

Overall I think they are very underwhelming, not hideous, but not good looking either.

statler

07-11-2008, 02:24 PM

You that ugly gray that concrete becomes after a few years outside without being cared for?

These came in that color.

These things are brand new and they look 10 years old.

Ginjitsuman

07-11-2008, 02:31 PM

I think the planters are all right, nothing spectacular but better than nothing IMO.

tobyjug

07-11-2008, 03:18 PM

Down by the parking lot across from the Paramount (I refuse to call it a development site) the planters practically eliminate the sidewalk. I'll admit that together with the hanging plant baskets, it looks jolly and pink, even if though incommodes the passersby.

I was quietly enjoying numerous adult beverages at Vinalia last night. The Mayor was there trying to con the mugs (I mean pursuade the investors) about the many wonderful opportunities available in the neighborhood. The Guinness was good.

Mike

07-12-2008, 12:57 AM

BRA eyes Downtown ‘Meeting Place’
By Donna Goodison
Saturday, July 12, 2008

Downtown Crossing businesses next week will receive a take-home blueprint of city consultants’ recommendations to turn the area into “Boston’s Meeting Place.”

The executive summary will capsulize Toronto-based Urban Marketing Collaborative’s branding and identity strategy work for Downtown Crossing over the last two years and urban design goals.

“It’s a marketing tool to be used by retailers and property owners to entice people to Downtown Crossing,” said Randi Lathrop, the Boston Redevelopment Authority’s deputy director of community planning.

The city’s revitalization efforts are becoming more apparent in the long-struggling district. Its work was buoyed this week by news that Midwood Management plans a $200 million, 28-story retail and residential project at Bromfield and Washington streets. Mayor Thomas M. Menino said the $650 million redevelopment of the Filene’s block by Vornado Realty Trust will force other property owners to spruce up their businesses. The city will work with new retailers to improve building facades as they move in, he said.

“The facade of a building is really what sells a business and invites you in,” Menino said.

The Downtown Crossing Partnership will lead a renewed effort to establish a business improvement district (BID) for Downtown Crossing. The plans call for raising up to $4 million annually from property owners to fund a public-safety program, events and marketing. The BID will take 12 to 18 months to get off the ground, according to Lathrop.

Though past efforts have failed, Menino said there’s increased support this time around.

“It’s a different form of a BID district than we had before,” he said. “It’s more about promotion of the district and what it looks like.”

Vornado backs plans for a BID, said Russ DeMartino, vice president of development. “We’re part of very successful BIDs in New York City, and we’re very supportive of it,” he said.

The city also is designing a new interactive Web site to market Downtown Crossing and its stores and eateries.

Link (http://www.bostonherald.com/business/general/view/2008_07_12_BRA_eyes_Downtown_%E2%80%98Meeting_Plac e_)

vanshnookenraggen

07-14-2008, 10:45 AM

What will really push DTX into a desdination would be to keep it open later. I remember going to a show at the Orphium that got out at 10:30pm and everything around there was closed. Washington St could be so much more (and as much as it pains me to say this), it could be the Times Sq of Boston (it used to be the Herald Sq of Boston).

The city needs to do a better job of connecting the Theatre District with DTX. There needs to be a flow of people to give the whole area life. Once you get people moving in and out then more people will want to be there. The biggest obstacle to this is the dead zone from Macy's to Hayward Pl. There is no life down at this end of DTX and that leaves people to wander and get lost even though they are just around the corner from the Theatre District.

Here's an idea, how about the city cuts a new street from the corner of Washington and Essex St diagonally to the corner of Stuart and Tremont St. With the new W Hotel going up, this would give the pedestrian a visual landmark to continue walking south and west from DTX. This would also connect Chinatown to DTX and the Theatre District better by creating an anchor square, a nexus if you will, where multiple neighborhoods end and begin. This lets the pedestrian know where they are and where they can go.

whighlander

07-14-2008, 11:11 AM

I think the Mayor for Life should personally install a giant "MAPPIN" at DTX -- presumably as near to the old shoppers park as can be accomodated by the construction at Filenes

By the way -- whatever becme of the bronze art iembedded in the street (Asartoon) that was installed during Kevin White's nearly Mayor for Life tenure?

Westy

Beton Brut

07-14-2008, 11:55 AM

A better model for Downtown Crossing is the rabbit-warren of streets around Shibuya (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shibuya%2C_Tokyo).

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3114/2577285748_710dbbe610_b.jpg

(One of my favorite shots from my trip in April of '06)

whighlander

07-14-2008, 12:12 PM

Ah but there is no Giant or ottherwise Mappin

Neon is nice at night -- but you need a Mappin to really put a place on a Map during the daytime

westy

Waldorf

07-14-2008, 05:08 PM

What is this Mappin you keep mentioning?

Charlie_mta

07-14-2008, 07:06 PM

vanshnookenraggen said: "Here's an idea, how about the city cuts a new street from the corner of Washington and Essex St diagonally to the corner of Stuart and Tremont St. "

This same concept at exactly the same location was proposed by the BRA in their 1967 comprehensive plan for Boston. In their proposal it would have been a pedestrian only street. One open to vehicular traffic would be better, as your idea would provide.

Lurker

07-14-2008, 07:23 PM

I think replacing the theaters which were torn down to relink the district would be better than cutting an odd angle street. New theaters on the corner of Washington and Lagrange and Washington and Stuart, perhaps one more at the corner of Tremont and Stuart, would make the connection to the rest of the theater district complete.

atlantaden

07-14-2008, 07:43 PM

What is this Mappin you keep mentioning?

I think this is what Westy's referring to...in the last paragraph.
From Howie Carr's column (mocking the mayor's Boston accent) in the Herald the other day.

In Mumbles’ Hub, stuff ‘mappens’
By Howie Carr
Sunday, July 13, 2008 - Updated 1d 7h ago
+ Recent Articles Boston Herald Columnist

Mumbles Menino - he’s not just your mayor, he’s your tour guide. Got the can’t-afford-to-go-on-vacation summertime blues? Is the price of gasoline, and in a few months heating oil, keeping you close to home this summer?

Mumbles feels your pain. Let’s go straight to the audio, all of which you can hear at bostonherald.com. As we join the mayor of summer, he is speaking at the Frog Pond on the Boston Common:

“These cost increases can get away-a havin’ summer fun ba only we let it.”

That’s right. Or, as FDR might have put it, “We have nuttin’ ta fear ba fear itself.”

So Mumbles, what would you suggest people do, if they’re flat broke and can’t leave the city?

“When you tryin’ to plot your summer fun, look for the oversized mappens, they’ll be at different lo- attractions across our city.”

Mappens? Usually I can figure out whatever Mumbles is babbling about. This time, I drew a blank, until someone pointed out that the city has been putting up, not mappens, but map pins, giant “oversized” map pins at alleged major tourist attractions. I actually saw the “mappen” on the Common on Friday.http://www.bostonherald.com/news/opinion/columnists/view.bg?articleid=1106662

choo

07-14-2008, 07:46 PM

I dont know much about the theater scene. I know Bostons is pretty good, but could it support that many new theaters?

Ron Newman

07-14-2008, 09:20 PM

While I'd love to see new theatres, I'd first like to see the ones we have fully utilized. Currently the Wilbur is vacant and unleased, while the Wang-Shubert combination is losing bookings and having serious financial problems. And then there's the RKO-Boston...

KentXie

07-14-2008, 09:21 PM

I dont know much about the theater scene. I know Bostons is pretty good, but could it support that many new theaters?

That's the exactly the same concern I have about DTX. Besides the fact that getting enough audiences for each show may get tough with so many competitions, there is another problem and that's the amount of performances available to use the theaters. I'm glad the Opera House was re-opened but most of the time, I see it sitting idle without any shows and creating more theaters in Boston would not exactly help the problem.

JimboJones

07-14-2008, 09:55 PM

Included in the developer's plans for Seafood, I mean Seaport, Square is an 1800-person live theater.

How they would fill this, I don't know.

Honestly, much as I love the project, I can only see this as an effort by him to somehow impress critics.

KentXie

07-15-2008, 07:15 AM

I'm guessing they are working under the theory of "If you build them, they will come" but I don't see that happening in a place like Boston.

ShawnA

07-17-2008, 01:33 AM

I argee that downtown crossing to be better it needs to connect to the Theather district. I think the project Hayward Place sucks. This for me would be a great place for a Tall Tower with more retails space at the bottom. I also think lower washington Street and the Theather District is not bright enough.

ShawnA

07-17-2008, 01:46 AM

Say "cheese" in Downtown Crossing Boston Business Journal - by Naomi R. Kooker Boston Business Journal
Print Article Email Article Reprints RSS Feeds Add to Del.icio.us Digg This

The Downtown Crossing photo campaign continued Wednesday as passers-by stood in line to get their photos taken as part of a public art project, “Have we met yet?”

The installation will include hundreds of “street portraits” of visitors to Downtown Crossing and wrap around the construction site of One Franklin, the historical landmark of Filene’s department store. The installation is part of the Downtown Crossing rebranding effort by the Boston Redevelopment Authority to create a shopping and meeting destination as more development takes place there.

Quincy resident Kelly Brennan, a 31-year-old guidance counselor, waited in line after shopping at DSW.

“I’d love for it to be, ‘Oh yeah, let’s go to Downtown Crossing for night life and better restaurants,” she said.

Beverly, Mass. photographer Matt Kalinowski has been hired by the BRA for $6,000 to take the photos, which will be used for the installation as well as other marketing materials. The BRA has spent upwards of $700,000 in the effort and hired Philadelphia-based 160 Over 90 agency to implement the rebranding in three phases.

The wrap portion of the project will be funded by Vornado and Gale International, the developers of One Franklin. The cost is about $30,000, according to the BRA.

“Have we met yet?” is intended to raise awareness of the 230,000 people who live, work, an commute through the Downtown Crossing area daily.

tobyjug

07-17-2008, 02:07 AM

There is a lame ass tent out there with sign up sheets. $700,000? It's a great country.
Set up some outdoor cafes with beer, wine, espresso and Japanese lanterns out in those "closed" streets. Hire a bunch of Berklee guys (or whomever) to play some tunes.
You will give some of those 230,000 people a reason to linger and spend.

tobyjug

07-22-2008, 04:31 PM

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh109/tobyjug_2008/L1090305.jpg

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh109/tobyjug_2008/L1090307.jpg

Looks like the tunes are here.

JimboJones

07-22-2008, 10:08 PM

"Up next we'll be playing a little Aerosmith, here's 'Sweet Emotion', enjoy!"

Suffolk 83

07-22-2008, 11:00 PM

I'm sorry but that looks pathetic as hell

tmac9wr

07-23-2008, 01:10 AM

Give it time...before we know it there will be at least 20-30 people watching these band performances.

statler

07-23-2008, 07:38 AM

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh109/tobyjug_2008/L1090305.jpg

Hi! and welcome to downtown Toledo!

Pierce

07-23-2008, 09:11 AM

Hi! and welcome to downtown Toledo!

I resemble that remark! As a native Toledoan I can say: your comment would have been accurate in 1983. Now you would either need to erase the people, or photoshop a baseball game behind them.

statler

07-23-2008, 09:14 AM

^^ Sorry I was just trying to come up with some generic 'suburban', midwestern city and Toledo popped into my head. There are probably better choices.

tobyjug

07-23-2008, 09:53 AM

Give it time...before we know it there will be at least 20-30 people watching these band performances.

Hmmm. Better put in a grassy knoll and some Lumber Liquidators boardwalk to accommodate the crowd. DTX doesn't have any outdoor performance areas.

Pierce

07-23-2008, 10:01 AM

^^ Sorry I was just trying to come up with some generic 'suburban', midwestern city and Toledo popped into my head. There are probably better choices.

no i don't think so. Toledo is quite standard and does the trick. It's just that even an octogenarian jazz band and a crowd of 3 would be more than one could reasonably expect to see in downtown toledo without a baseball game being played.

Beton Brut

07-23-2008, 10:40 AM

^^ There are probably better choices.

Peoria, statler. Been there for a friend's wedding. I asked one of the bridesmaids: "What's there to do around here at night, aside from crystal meth and suicide?"

The pic reminds me of the classic Simpsons episode featuring Spinal Tap: "We thought they knew how to rock in Shelbyville. That was before we came to....(awkward pause)...Springfield!"

Suffolk 83

07-23-2008, 10:48 AM

Grand Island, NE.

JimboJones

07-23-2008, 11:16 AM

Clarinet-player to oboist, "I'm going into Jordan Marsh after this and buy a couple of those delicious blueberry muffins!"

tobyjug

07-24-2008, 03:01 PM

Just reading Jimbo's post on the South End BCA Plaza thread that the redo is a redon't. Looks like there might be some plans available!

kz1000ps

07-29-2008, 12:00 AM

Woooo we're partying now!

http://img521.imageshack.us/img521/6985/img6193qq3.jpg

JeffDowntown

07-29-2008, 04:51 PM

Woooo we're partying now!

http://img521.imageshack.us/img521/6985/img6193qq3.jpg

Doesn't that just completely remake the neighborhood!

Menino in action.

Beton Brut

07-29-2008, 04:57 PM

To misappropriate ablarc's sarcastic mantra, it's better than a boarded up store-front.

cden4

07-29-2008, 05:19 PM

It most certainly looks better than the dilapidated CVS that was there before (and the new CVS across the street looks nice too!).

blade_bltz

07-29-2008, 05:22 PM

What did the new CVS replace?

Ron Newman

07-29-2008, 10:13 PM

The other old CVS a block away also closed a few weeks ago.

The former Tower Records in Harvard Square is also becoming a Verizon store. Bleaah.

tobyjug

07-30-2008, 12:39 AM

And Verizon was formerly a ground floor tenant at 101 Arch, space now vacant. Gad, I feel the blight creeping up my building like rising damp. Throw me another floral cement lifesaver, quick!

Boston Needs A ShakeShack

07-30-2008, 07:20 AM

The other old CVS a block away also closed a few weeks ago.

The former Tower Records in Harvard Square is also becoming a Verizon store. Bleaah.

I really don't understand cellphone stores. Who goes to them? I've been a satisfied cell phone user for I guess 8 years now and I've never set foot in one.

Lrfox

07-30-2008, 08:22 AM

^Teens... they go to see what's "Hot" and play with it before their parents buy it for them (probably online).

castevens

07-30-2008, 08:26 AM

I really don't understand cellphone stores. Who goes to them? I've been a satisfied cell phone user for I guess 8 years now and I've never set foot in one.

I second that. I have used cell phones for 8-9 years, and I've never used one except for the initial activation at the very beginning.

ngb_anim8

07-30-2008, 12:01 PM

I've been in 3 times. Twice to get new phones (I'm too impatient to wait for it to be sent in the mail) and once to get a phone repaired. I suppose everything could have been done via that internet thingy that's all the rage with the kids these days.

vanshnookenraggen

07-30-2008, 12:10 PM

I would put cell phone stores second after banks in terms of streetlife killers (other than blank walls.)

tobyjug

07-30-2008, 01:50 PM

^Teens... they go to see what's "Hot" and play with it before their parents buy it for them (probably online).

That is a pretty good summary of the client profile I'd see in Verizon when it was at 101 Arch. Many people get them from their companies. My first "cell" phone was half the size of an attache case. I believe the earlier model had a rotary dial!

statler

07-30-2008, 01:56 PM

And Verizon was formerly a ground floor tenant at 101 Arch, space now vacant. Gad, I feel the blight creeping up my building like rising damp. Throw me another floral cement lifesaver, quick!

I really like the plastic tarp look you guys having going on in the lobby. Very chic!

Ginjitsuman

07-30-2008, 02:00 PM

The building Verizon's new store is in should have been demolished decades ago, that belongs in a stripmall on route 1 not downtown Boston. I wonder what Urban renewal destroyed in order to put that there :/.

JimboJones

07-31-2008, 01:27 AM

OMG, I have just seen the future, and I'm sure it includes a phone store on Tremont Street in the South End. There are four or five empty storefronts in our neighborhood now, and I can just imagine ... it makes sense ... oh, lord.

I agree, phone stores are street-killers.

Suffolk 83

07-31-2008, 10:01 AM

cell phone stores are only street killers if there are too many of them. If there's not one close by, the place will be packed with a steady stream of people throughout the day, no matter the time. I go into cell phone stores to a.) get my cell fixed b.) lie that it "just broke" and didnt fall in a puddle c.) get a new battery d.) get the headphone accessory I don't feel like waiting for through the internet e.) get out new phones when my two years is up to see what I like. I know this is different, but the Verizon store in the SS Plaza is packed 90% of the day.

Divot

07-31-2008, 10:01 AM

Downtown Crossing need more sneaker stores... When I'm in the mood to go shoping for a new pair of kicks I just don't have enough options.

Ron Newman

07-31-2008, 10:08 AM

Some of the hostility to cell phone stores comes from a feeling that they are far inferior to what they have replaced (for example, a grocery or Tower Records)

statler

07-31-2008, 10:11 AM

^^ And jewelry stores. If only there were more jewelery stores.

archBOSTON.org > Boston's Built Environment > New Development > Downtown Crossing

PDA

View Full Version : Downtown Crossing

Pages : 1 2 [3] 4 5 6

tobyjug

07-31-2008, 11:36 AM

I really like the plastic tarp look you guys having going on in the lobby. Very chic!

Another pointless overhaul of the lobby that I'll be paying for. The third iteration of it, too: once when I was a 101 Arch tenant 15 or more years ago, once while I was away at 31 St. James, and now this. Gonna look like King Tut's tomb this time.

Suffolk 83

07-31-2008, 04:14 PM

Tobes I was over at 31 St. James a little while ago and they were redoing some of the floors: covering up the marble walls and the other art deco details with sheetrock and plaster. craziness.

tobyjug

07-31-2008, 04:40 PM

New lobby usually means either: 1) big time vacancies, or 2) the building is for sale.
They re-did that one 5 years ago two when Paula Zahn's husband was tarting the place up to put on the market. They put all their eggs in the First Marblehead basket and pretty much told existing tenants "f.u., First Marblehead, (which already had several floors) will take all the space we can give them". F.M., a student loan servicing company, had some hiccups, and now, well, you read the papers.

pelhamhall

07-31-2008, 05:07 PM

Funny thing about cell phone stores... I need a new cell phone and a friend said "go to Coolidge Corner in Brookline, it's like the Cell Phone District, they have every major carrier all within one block of each other in big flagship stores - you can walk into them all and get a chance to touch and try every single cell phone on the market"

As a former resident of Coolidge Corner, I threw up in my mouth a little. "the Cell Phone District."

It's true though - Sprint, Verizon, ATT, T-Mobile and Radio Shack are all crowding the block with mega-stores hawking cell phones - what a bizarre trend in retail storefronts.

Beton Brut

07-31-2008, 05:32 PM

I've purchased phones from two different carriers at Coolidge Corner. I agree, it's a bit off-putting, but at least I can grab some coffee at Pete's, or a bite at Rani afterwards.

I mentioned to a person in line next to me at the Verizon store last spring, "Ten years ago, didn't we all have something better to do than this on a Saturday morning?" The place was mobbed at 10:30 am...

tobyjug

07-31-2008, 05:43 PM

I like the food at Rani.

blade_bltz

07-31-2008, 06:12 PM

As long as Brookline Booksmith, the Theatre, Brookline News and Gifts, and Shawarma King are around...I can (gulp) handle the invasion of the cell phone stores. Oh yeah, and Mr. Sushi. I think I've eaten more meals from there than any other restaurant in the world.

kennedy

07-31-2008, 06:51 PM

To throw fuel in the fire, doesn't the Apple store qualify as a phone store? And it certainly isn't a street killer.

Lurker

07-31-2008, 08:01 PM

Apple isn't a store, it's a cult's mecca.

atlrvr

07-31-2008, 08:16 PM

Suffolk 83

07-31-2008, 08:17 PM

lame... you forgot the word lame. lame cult mecca

Suffolk 83

07-31-2008, 08:18 PM

^ I don't know about the BEST steak and cheese, but it is damn good. All the food there is good and its cheaper than the POS Subway next door

tobyjug

08-01-2008, 01:10 AM

Toby......any chance of new elevators to go with the King Ramses II exhibit?

Me, until recently, an 101 Archer....the wife, until recently, a F.M. 31 St. Jameser...she was one of the last to leave....literally 1 person to every 25 cubes, and she was on the only occupied floor. I do miss Park Square Cafe though.....best Steak and Cheese in Boston, in an office building cafe no less.

Is the Verizon space still empty at 101? Seems like the perfect spot for Krispy Kreme to roll out their new urban format.

Good idea. Make the elevators look like mummy cases!

The steak and cheese at the Park Sq. Cafe was a highlight. The guy who owns the "New York Deli" in 101 Arch is nephew of the guy who owns the Park Sq. Cafe.

Verizon is still empty, but no to Krispy Kreme: I'll need to be wheelbarrowed to the elevators every day! "Lawyers Stationary" on the Arch St. side is vacant too. A liquor store would be a good fit.

Sorry to hear your wife got caught up in the F.M. meltdown. They really were on top for awhile. I remember seeing one floor with what looked like a thousand cubicles in it, every one of them occupied. Never saw the other floors. I never saw a company get so big so fast.

Hmmm... sell the balance of the lease at 101 Arch and offer $18 psf at 31 St. James, pocket the difference. I wouldn't like the longer walk to work, but every female employee would probably be happy to depart DTX.

atlrvr

08-01-2008, 12:03 PM

You could probably even negotiate in the world's longest shuffleboard court....

bostoncitywalk

08-13-2008, 02:28 PM

Walking around at lunch I saw them building a mock up at Hayward Place. Anyone have any idea what this could be for?

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2272/2759843699_3130debd80_o.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/bostoncitywalk/2759843699/ )

http://www.flickr.com/photos/bostoncitywalk/

statler

08-13-2008, 02:32 PM

Emerson at Paramount, maybe?

bostoncitywalk

08-13-2008, 02:34 PM

They had a couple things in boxes all marked "Hayward". So I think that is unlikely.

Boston02124

08-13-2008, 03:30 PM

Interesting!!! Could they finally build something there?

Beton Brut

08-13-2008, 04:01 PM

Looks an awful lot like the rain-screen and glazing for the Filene's tower...

type001

08-13-2008, 04:09 PM

I'm not sure what that is, but I'm sure it's something good! :)

Suffolk 83

08-13-2008, 04:42 PM

you shoulda pulled a toby and struck up a conversation and found out what it was they probably knew.

JimboJones

08-13-2008, 09:16 PM

There was that Globe article about a month ago about the mayor walking through Downtown Crossing and the new apartment building on Bromfield. There was a graf about Hayward Place.

The city estimated there are 2,900 residential units in the neighborhood, with 1,350 more under construction, including college dorms. Indeed, Menino kicked off his walking tour of Downtown Crossing at the Hayward Place parking lot on Washington Street, where a $200 million, 14-story residential and retail building is planned.

Hayward you blow me (http://www.boston.com/news/local/massachusetts/articles/2008/07/09/high_rise_proposed_at_downtown_crossing/ )

Ginjitsuman

08-14-2008, 06:19 PM

Okay so I'm finally contributing to this site other than complaining about NIMBYs.

When I got out of my office today I asked a construction worker at Paramount what the mock up was for and he said that some company named Bovis is planning 3 towers for the plot (18, 14, and 12 stories high). He also said that they're apparently only putting that up so that the developers investing in the project can decide whether they like the exterior scheme for the site or not, and if they don't they're going to pack this one up, re design and come back with another. That's all I could find out on the street, but it's definitely for Hayward place.

Btw the construction workers in Boston are awfully friendly, after telling me all about the project for about 3 minutes he threw up a peace sign which I haven't seen in person in almost half a decade. I feel like he was looking for more of a conversation, but I really had to get to class haha.

kz1000ps

08-16-2008, 03:24 PM

Here's the mockup:

http://img514.imageshack.us/img514/2923/img7861up2.jpg

http://img299.imageshack.us/img299/5526/img7862xh5.jpg

JimboJones

08-16-2008, 04:58 PM

Um, why aren't I in these photos? I was right on the other side when you took them!!!!

JimboJones

08-16-2008, 05:42 PM

http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk287/JackoffJones/IMG_3306.jpg

http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk287/JackoffJones/IMG_3313.jpg

http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk287/JackoffJones/IMG_3314.jpg

tobyjug

09-30-2008, 02:51 PM

The city's ambitious plan to spruce up DTX continues...

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh109/tobyjug_2008/L1090982.jpg

Lurker

09-30-2008, 03:53 PM

http://img412.imageshack.us/img412/6027/haywardplace2qe0.th.jpg (http://img412.imageshack.us/my.php?image=haywardplace2qe0.jpg )http://img412.imageshack.us/images/thpix.gif (http://g.imageshack.us/thpix.php )

From the mock-up, things have drastically changed.

tobyjug

09-30-2008, 05:00 PM

Lower the front portions and precast more detail, if you please. In compensation, raise the back, just like a big arm chair (or the McCormick Federal Building.)

The developer is going to need alot of Lysol and Febreeze to keep that shadowy parkette smelling clean.

Mike

09-30-2008, 05:42 PM

That's an old rendering from the Lincoln Properties proposal several years ago.

JimboJones

09-30-2008, 06:19 PM

Jeez ... the front of that building looks like the construction elevator still runs up the side of it.

On the plus side, the first three floors have an appeal to them. Almost looks as if they were trying to mimic the front of the old "T" stations (which, by the way, is being stripped at the Copley Green Line station).

ShawnA

10-03-2008, 03:52 PM

Downtown Crossing
The Opera House, with its many ornamental details restored, is a Washington Street landmark. (John Tlumacki/Globe Staff/File 2004)

September 28, 2008
Email| Print| Single Page| Yahoo! Buzz| Text size – + Downtown Crossing
Median home prices: Condominiums $540,000 (Boston proper)
Residential tax rate: $10.97 (citywide)
Average tax bill: $3,801 (citywide)
Choice location: The Opera House on Washington Street, with its mural art and ornamental details, restored to its former glory.
Cocktail party nugget: British troops trashed the Old South Meeting House during the Revoluntionary War as payback to the patriots who used the historic building as a gathering spot.
SOURCES: Warren Group, City of Boston, Massachusetts Department of Revenue, Old South Meeting House

photos Tour Downtown Crossing
More community snapshots and information
THE GOODS It wasn't that long ago that buying here would have been considered a questionable move. But these days Downtown Crossing is more than just the junction of several MBTA lines or a destination for some quick lunch-time shopping. Downtown Crossing is emerging as a neighborhood - a very cool one, its newest residents argue. Some of the 6,000 people who live in the area where Washington, Winter, and Summer streets intersect consider this a vibrant community. They tend to be young professionals looking for a raw, urban environment to call home. Some of its rougher edges are in the process of being smoothed out - Emerson College is rebuilding the Paramount Theater as theatrical space, and the Filene's block is being renovated. The Boston Redevelopment Authority is heading a rebranding campaign, and new hotels, retail, and restaurants are lining up to be part of the changes underway here.

PROS This is a busy place. Nine hundred condo units are proposed or under construction, including high-end luxury units on top of the Filene's building and at 45 Province. The Residences at the Ritz Carlton were among the first of a new generation of luxury housing to come here. There are numerous new loft-style units that have been redeveloped in the small buildings on the side streets. A few units have balconies, but as a whole the neighborhood tends to have the feel of converted office buildings. Real estate prices for the area's lofts and condos are arguably lower here than many of the city's more established neighborhoods. And you can get a big, rectangular apartment here with newer finishes, 12-foot ceilings, tall windows, and an open layout. Two local colleges are also building dorms here. There's plenty of shopping right at your fingertips, although one can argue how good it is - particularly without Filene's Basement, which closed last year. One of the most beautiful parks in the country is your front yard, and it's hard to top the central location.

CONS One needs a bit of patience to settle here - the name doesn't yet carry cache and the neighborhood is still in flux. Teenagers seem to always be hanging around, some storefronts are empty, and the community lacks certain amenities many people have come to expect of urban communities, such as a grocery store. It looks in many ways like a thoroughly commercial district and is quieter at night than some people might want.
http://www.boston.com/realestate/community/articles/2008/09/28/downtown_crossing/

statler

10-03-2008, 03:57 PM

Meanwhile:

Police investigate stabbings, report of shots downtown
Email| Text size – +
October 3, 2008 03:35 PM

By Globe Staff

Boston police are investigating a double stabbing near the State Street MBTA station, police said.

The attack happened shortly before 3 p.m. on State Street. Police said the victims were taken to area hospitals with non-life-threatening injuries. A hunt is underway for possible suspects.

Meanwhile, police are looking into a report of shots fired on Bromfield Street near Downtown Crossing. No victims were found. Police are looking for shell casings on Bromfield and have called in the canine unit.

It's unclear if the two incidents are related.

Suffolk 83

10-03-2008, 04:06 PM

very rare and isolated incident...don't scare off the tourists.

Ron Newman

10-03-2008, 04:08 PM

3 pm? State Street? Geez, I was just a few blocks away on the Greenway at 1:30. Not a pleasant thing to think about.

yigal

10-03-2008, 04:10 PM

Look what people are asking the mayor:

http://www.metrobostonnews.com/us/article/2007/09/25/19/3340-72/index.xml

Mr. Menino,
Recently I had some friends come from out of town, they wanted to stop at the Trinity Church and take some pictures. To our dismay, there were at least 10 homeless drug addicts taking refuge there. They began shouting profanities at us. We then noticed that in a far corner a group of individuals was lighting a spoon. Needless to say my friends were shocked that this type of behavior was taking place out in the open in the middle of downtown Boston on a landmark. They were also shocked that not a single police officer was present in the area. And just a few days ago, a woman was raped in the Back Bay Station just a few blocks away. Why are there not enough police officers on our streets and why are drug addicts shooting up at the Trinity Church? Why are foot patrols a rare sight unless it’s Christmas and you're on Newbury Street or in Downtown Crossing? This was not the kind of image I wanted my out of town friends to leave with.
Chris
Brighton

Dear Chris,
I’m sorry that you and your friends had such an unpleasant experience in Copley Square and I hope that your sense of safety in one of Boston’s landmark neighborhoods returns.

Boston police take great pride in their ability to ensure the safety and well being of all those who live in or visit our great city. Over the past year, the city has gone to great lengths to help, understand and provide more effective services to our homeless population through the Health and Human Services Department and the Emergency Shelter Commission.

With the help of our legislative leaders, we have put more police on the street than at any time since 2002 and Commissioner Edward Davis has deployed officers in Safe Street Teams, walking the blocks that need police presence the most. We have also increased the number of police detectives by 25 percent to investigate and solve crime and last year we reduced violent crime by 9 percent, homicides by 11 percent and shootings by 14 percent.

But there is more work to be done. For the third year in a row there was a major decrease in the number of homeless people living on the streets over the winter as well as fewer adults in emergency shelters. However, the number of homeless families has increased significantly and federal funding for assistance programs like the Section 8 Housing Choice Voucher program isn’t likely to meet the need.

If you witness a criminal activity or quality of life concern, call 9-1-1. You can also aid policing efforts in an anonymous fashion by calling the Crime Stoppers hotline at 800-494-TIPS or text the word “TIP” to CRIME (27463).

As the winter cold approaches, citizens can call the mayor’s hotline at 617-635-4500 if they see homeless people in need of care.

Should I be more worried than I am?

Ron Newman

10-03-2008, 04:12 PM

A bit off-topic though; Trinity Church is in Copley Square, not DTX.

tobyjug

10-03-2008, 05:04 PM

You are right, of course. But the original Trinity Church stood here.

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh109/tobyjug_2008/L1100061.jpg

Meanwhile, the shouting street preacher who replaced it sizes up a prospect...

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh109/tobyjug_2008/L1100064.jpg

Boston02124

10-07-2008, 09:02 AM

http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn80/boston02124/095.jpg

jass

10-12-2008, 07:22 PM

The moving windows are expanding

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y17/jamesinclair/IMG_6376.jpg

New facade is done

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y17/jamesinclair/IMG_6377.jpg

ablarc

10-12-2008, 11:12 PM

^

http://66.230.220.70/images/post/bostonintheseventies/2380.jpg

Ron Newman

10-13-2008, 01:31 PM

And now, if you look at the ex-Strawberries store head-on (rather than from the sidewalk approaching it), it has no name.

I wish the Orpheum's vertical sign and marquee still existed on Washington Street, even though the theatre no longer has an entrance from that side.

statler

10-13-2008, 01:47 PM

On the plus side, that hideous glass awning is gone.

AdamBC

10-13-2008, 10:02 PM

On the plus side, that hideous glass awning is gone.

When I first saw that picture I was taken back to my youth in Indiana where the architects had fallen in love with that design element and used it everywhere! Begone curved-glass awning - your kind is not welcome here.

Ron Newman

10-13-2008, 11:18 PM

Those glass awnings appeared in the late 1970s, at the same time as the Downtown Crossing name was introduced. The district was trying to compete with suburban shopping malls, and they thought protecting shoppers from rain would help.

czsz

10-17-2008, 02:21 PM

The moving windows are expanding

Kudos to Mayor Menino for distracting us from our latest, greatest depression with the magic of moving images. O Brave New World. Though better these conceal squatters and crack dens than plywood, I guess.

As for the glass awnings - I don't see what's wrong with them. They're still used in the Italian quarter of Montreal to great effect. In Australia, shopping districts are all completely awninged...it beats battling back wind and rain with a flimsy umbrella.

jass

10-17-2008, 05:36 PM

Kudos to Mayor Menino for distracting us from our latest, greatest depression with the magic of moving images. O Brave New World. Though better these conceal squatters and crack dens than plywood, I guess.

As for the glass awnings - I don't see what's wrong with them. They're still used in the Italian quarter of Montreal to great effect. In Australia, shopping districts are all completely awninged...it beats battling back wind and rain with a flimsy umbrella.

I agree, if anything, I feel that downtown crossing should be turned into a pru like place.

Ron Newman

10-17-2008, 05:39 PM

Turn it into an indoor mall? The last attempt to create an indoor mall at DTX, Lafayette Place, was an epic fail.

tobyjug

10-17-2008, 05:49 PM

jass

10-17-2008, 06:40 PM

Turn it into an indoor mall? The last attempt to create an indoor mall at DTX, Lafayette Place, was an epic fail.

Unlike the current state?

At least cover the sidewalks with a more modern structure. Or even better, let buildings over the sidewalks.

Why cant DTX look like this modern example (built in the 50s), if glass isnt popular?

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y17/jamesinclair/IMG_4664.jpg

Padre Mike

10-17-2008, 06:53 PM

Please check out the arcaded walkway of 1-3 Center Plaza in Govt. Center. When proposed it was to be a recreation of European retail districts....but has become IMO a windswept, univiting failure. Besides, such arcades work architecturally only when every building on the block corresponds accordingly. I vividly recall the glass awnings also; I was always afraid of walking into a post in (formerly evident) crowds, which were placed in the middle of the sidewalks. The awnings ruined the look of many of the buildings because of their incongruity. Also they didn't cover the whole of Washington St. and only on one side at that. They ended well before Summer St. and extended only up until School St. Regarding Lafayette Place!! That circular mess of a mall was a failure from day one....it was never completely rented, a great place for muggers to hide in the dark corners, and felt like a rat maze for shoppers. You never knew where it began and where it ended and the lighting consisted of occasional spot lights (it was supposed to be "moody")!

ablarc

10-17-2008, 06:59 PM

The glass awnings didn't really keep the weather off you. They were ugly, got dirty and were never cleaned (that I recall.) The awnings obscured the many interesting facades too. I remember thinking at the time they were ripped out that it was like taking down an elevated railway. Everything was light again.
Exactly. Tawdry when new, drab when old.

The same folks did a number on Park Street's Green Line. That was equally dispiriting: dusty bas reliefs in compromised colors.

ablarc

10-17-2008, 07:03 PM

Regarding Lafayette Place!! That circular mess of a mall was a failure from day one....
Designed by the then-Dean of Columbia; he also designed the Australian Capitol building.

czsz

10-17-2008, 10:14 PM

Why cant DTX look like this modern example (built in the 50s), if glass isnt popular?

Where is that? It looks vaguely fascist or Stalinist.

Lurker

10-17-2008, 10:25 PM

Bolonga?

tobyjug

10-17-2008, 10:36 PM

Where is that? It looks vaguely fascist or Stalinist.

Yeah, EUR or something. Use the Wang/Big Dig building as a stand in for the Palazzo della Civilta Italiana while you're at it.

The photo is inapposite. The arcades are part of the buildings and compliment them. On Washington St., any arcade would obscure and destroy the buildings.

atlrvr

10-17-2008, 11:59 PM

I must admit when I worked in 101 Arch and felt the improbable cravings for Sakkio Japan for lunch from the Corner Mall on cold rainy days, I would first cut diagonally to Macy's and walk under their cantilivered awning, until crossing Summer again to be under Filene's, inching my way down Washington until I was perpendicular to the Corner Mall awning, insuring I expose my self for the least possible time to the elements.

That said, during nice weather, they are blemishes to the facades, and prevent the dissapation of the stench of urine.

That's my eternal stuggle, the low-class gormund versus the elitist urbanite.

jass

10-18-2008, 02:05 AM

Where is that? It looks vaguely fascist or Stalinist.
Bolonga?

Close, Livorno, which is near Pisa. It was completely destroyed during WW2, which is why everything in the picture is from after that period.

Y
The photo is inapposite. The arcades are part of the buildings and compliment them. On Washington St., any arcade would obscure and destroy the buildings.

My point is not to add this to the existing structures, but to allow this in new construction, make it part of the design.

The new filenes building is the obvious start point.

For the older buildings, a flat and much lighter glass awning would be better. Make it suspension style, not pole supported.

tobyjug

10-18-2008, 11:05 AM

Ah. I see your point then. Street arcades would be pleasant in the right setting.

justin

10-21-2008, 05:26 AM

How 'bout each store putting in its own canvas awning? Not as much protection, but it might be colorful and recall Washington St. of yore.

caravaggiste

10-21-2008, 09:50 AM

eh, trashy alert. Why is Downtown Crossing so trashy? blagghhhhh

atlrvr

10-21-2008, 10:41 AM

^ Weren't you the one supporting graffiti in another thread as free expression and quality urban grittiness?

Perhaps you think DTX needs more graffiti?

caravaggiste

10-21-2008, 11:14 AM

I was supporting graffiti in the appropriate places - i.e. alleys, highway trenches, certain public domains. I'm mostly speaking of DTX inability (and the city,) to present a clear identity or not even that. I just don't understand what is going on down there. I'm all for urban 'gritty-ness' etc. It's just such a polyglot of stores and a mish mash of everything else. I have to examine further why I don't really like it down there...Perhaps I will examine it further today.

cden4

10-21-2008, 01:02 PM

One big problem is that the streetscape is looking tired. Also, more places are needed for people to stop and enjoy the area as opposed to just walking through (i.e. outdoor cafes).

The BRA has identified this need. Check out this Vision document that was recently created:
http://www.cityofboston.gov/bra/images/11-27-ALL-sm-No-Photos.pdf

Ron Newman

10-21-2008, 01:04 PM

Vacant storefronts are the cause of all other problems there. Fill them and everything else will take care of itself.

caravaggiste

10-21-2008, 01:31 PM

Well still, all I see are CVS x 3, Verizon Wireless, Starbucks, CVS, CVS, Starbucks, H&M, CVS, CVS, ATT Wireless, CVS, CVS. I have seen their 'branding' attempt. It is admirable but renderings are renderings.

statler

10-21-2008, 01:36 PM

To be fair, they did consolidate two CVS' into one, so I think they are down to about 6 in the general area (including the ones on Tremont and Center Plaza)

caravaggiste

10-21-2008, 01:51 PM

haha, well still. I hate to be such a debby downer. Boston is an admirable city and pessimism isn't always the right approach. There have just been so many missed opportunities and things move at such a slow pace and get changed erratically. Why doesn't the city employ more progressive students into the planning office - such as myself (blast, its so hard to get a job there even with good references and school,) design charettes, etc.....they should have more meetings with the college students studying these things who are going to be shaping the future cities of this country. They should have a 150 year master plan like harvard...haha. Isnt that ridiculous?!

cden4

10-21-2008, 02:57 PM

I'm actually really excited about the supermarket that will be part of One Franklin. That will without a doubt generate more activity in the area. Residents will have a place to go, and daytime workers will be able to grab a few groceries or a quick lunch.

But yes, filling in the vacant storefronts would also be a big help.

pelhamhall

10-21-2008, 04:09 PM

Mayor Menino squandered hundreds of thousands of dollars to have an ad agency come up with the "where ___ meets ____" branding campaign and plaster empty storefronts with sayings like "Where wine meets glass" and "where shoes meet bags" - I'm not making this up.

Seriously. A hundred thousands dollars that makes nobody more interested in DTX.

At all.

We are urban people, we love the city - does anybody here on this board actually visit and use this $75,000+ web site: http://www.downtowncrossing.org/ ??? For anything at all? It was subsidized by your tax money.

The government has piles and piles of money just sitting around to burn and waste. And when you you ask them how much you should give, the only answer is more, more, more.

I would think suffocating the state of our income taxes would help with the situation. With a stripped down and gutted BRA, the community process would also have to be streamlined, and One Franklin would have been built years ago. There would be a lively mixed-use property instead of thousands of dollars worth of "where theatre meets dancing" posters.

Serious people who design cities would end up designing cities instead of government workers who couldn't hack it at serious business enterprises.

Sorry... my bitter anti-government rants probably need to be toned down, but these DTX posters are just such a laughable waste of money - all that money squandered so Menino can stand at a press conference and shore up the DTX constituent support - without any follow up about results or ROI.

caravaggiste

10-21-2008, 04:29 PM

thank you, i couldnt agree more or said it better myself......minus the income tax repeal.

Beton Brut

10-21-2008, 04:34 PM

- does anybody here on this board actually visit and use this $75,000+ web site: http://www.downtowncrossing.org/ ??? For anything at all? It was subsidized by your tax money.

Think the DTX branding initiative is a waste of money? Well, you'll love this (http://www.archboston.org/community/showthread.php?t=2548 ).

Sorry...my bitter anti-government rants probably need to be toned down, but these DTX posters are just such a laughable waste of money - all that money squandered so Menino can stand at a press conference and shore up the DTX constituent support - without any follow up about results or ROI.

There's never a need to apologize when you're right.

Bubbybu

10-21-2008, 04:51 PM

There is just so much sarcasm on this board......

ChunkyMonkey

10-22-2008, 09:02 AM

City pushes regulations for signs at Downtown Crossing
By Donna Goodison | Wednesday, October 22, 2008 | http://www.bostonherald.com | Business & Markets

New regulations would rein in the mishmash of business signs in Boston’s Downtown Crossing.

The proposed changes would set maximum sizes for new signs and their lettering, and would ban several sign types and all flags except for the U.S. flag. All new signs would be subject to review by the Boston Redevelopment Authority.

The goal is to improve the struggling shopping district’s appearance and better showcase its architecture as part of an economic improvement initiative. “There’s no more one-upping of each other, and there’s no more carte blanche,” said Andrew Grace, a BRA project manager.

Current zoning makes city management of the signs a bit cumbersome, Grace said. The BRA oversees only a small portion of the signs, the majority of which are under the Inspectional Services Department’s purview.

Existing signs would not be affected by the regulations, save for freestanding and in-ground ones, which would be banned. New plastic waterfall awnings also would be prohibited. And businesses that close would be required to remove their signs within 30 days.

“There are some interesting fragments of history up there, but it could really be disorienting if you’re looking for a business and it doesn’t exist,” Grace said.

The city started approaching business owners four years ago about the need for sign approvals, and it heightened enforcement. The city has been working with a dozen small retailers in the last six months, giving them $2,500 grants for new signs and free design assistance.

“The intention behind the regulations is good, which is to clean up the area and make it look better,” said Alexander Leventhal, managing partner of Advisors Capital, which is buying the building at 467-469 Washington St.

The firm, which plans to lease space to the Sleepy’s mattress chain, is working with the BRA on plans to remove an awning and signage behind it and retrofit an old blade marquee from the former Rogers Jewelry, which closed in 1996 after 89 years.

Article URL: http://www.bostonherald.com/business/general/view.bg?articleid=1127034

kz1000ps

10-22-2008, 09:06 AM

City's retail vision requires changing a youth hangout

By Milton J. Valencia
Globe Staff / October 22, 2008

The buses and trains seem to arrive simultaneously, unleashing a mob of teenagers onto the streets of Downtown Crossing at the close of the school day. Some shop. Most loiter on corners or outside sneaker stores and cellular phone shops. A few look for trouble.

Like the Roxbury gang members spotted by police one day last week. Or the 100-plus youths who descended on the area earlier this month and engaged in scattered fights up and down Washington Street. Those episodes came just days after a young man opened fire Oct. 3 on a rival crowd, and two men were stabbed, prompting city officials to provide a strong police presence since then in the afternoons.

This should not be happening at Downtown Crossing, "Boston's Meeting Place," as officials now call it, a neighborhood that is seeing $4 billion in investments to develop new office buildings, restaurants, high-rise condominiums, and high-end lofts that officials hope will restore the area to its glory days of the 1960s as Boston's center of shopping and leisure.

But as the city and developers have been planning the revitalization with million-dollar homes at 45 Province and the construction of a 38-story tower above the old Filene's, Downtown Crossing is dealing with the type of urban nuisances typical of a neighborhood in transition. For now, according to residents and business owners, the area is short of the world-class shopping destination the city has long envisioned.

"I think it's disappointing," said Alana Menitoff, who manages a handbag vending cart on Washington Street.

Said 37-year-old Anne Murphy, who recently bought a Washington Street loft: "There's shady stuff going on. That's kind of always been the case down here. I don't think it will ever be what they thought it would be when they first started."

Vacant storefronts dot Washington Street, the main thoroughfare. Homeless men sleep in the crevices of T stations and ATM vestibules. And Filene's, the focus of huge plans, is for now an enormous, gaping construction site.

Of particular concern are the hundreds of youths who converge on the scene in the afternoon, taking over street corners, yelling, fighting, and, in some cases, intimidating shoppers and tourists.

"The kids that don't belong stick out," police Lieutenant Sean Feeney said recently, during a tour of the neighborhood. Since the shooting, police commanders have sent extra teams of officers to patrol Downtown Crossing, from West Street toward the State Street T stop, beginning around 2:30 p.m. Boston police teamed with MBTA police, court officials, and school workers who can help identify problem students.

Downtown Crossing station, where riders can catch the Red Line or Orange Line or make a short walk to the Green Line, serves as the crossroads of the city's transit system, and is the T's busiest. Deputy Chief Joseph O'Connor of the Massachusetts Bay Transportation Authority police said the station has its share of crime, but much of it centers on teenagers stealing iPods and cellphones from each other. Police statistics related specifically to Downtown Crossing were not immediately available.

"When you get large groups of adolescents going into stations, sometimes it creates fear for riders, even if they're not committing crimes," O'Connor said.

Mayor Thomas M. Menino said the increased patrols are to ensure that shoppers feel comfortable in Downtown Crossing and diminish any sense of disorder that the large youth presence might cause. The mayor is planning elaborate decorations for the holiday season, just as FAO Schwarz is to open a new store in the basement of Macy's. By then, Menino hopes, cold weather will push the youths to congregate elsewhere.

"It's a nuisance to us, not a crisis," said Menino, an inveterate shopper who ventures through Downtown Crossing nearly every day. "But you have to behave yourself. There are other people down there, and we want you to behave yourself to make it a thriving shopping district."

The police effort has triggered a mixed reaction among students. Teenagers from several high schools said in interviews in the area that they understand the need for the police presence because of the recent violence and tendencies of people their age to fight for mundane reasons. But they also said they, too, are trying to enjoy the area as "Boston's Meeting Place."

"We come down here to enjoy ourselves," said Shauntell Thomas, 16, a sophomore at West Roxbury High School. "Where else are we going to go?"

Justin Crespo, a 15-year-old at the John D. O'Bryant School in Roxbury, said the area is a meeting place for students from high schools throughout the city. He realizes police are trying to disperse crowds, but believes students should not have to feel they are being harassed or targeted.

Students are known to move from one corner to the next. The management company that runs the Food Court on Washington Street has resorted to blasting classical music to annoy and eventually repel teenagers who like more modern music. Other businesses simply ask teenagers to move, and they welcome the police presence.

"If this was just another neighborhood, Dorchester or Roxbury, you wouldn't have this much police," said Frank Chaparro, who runs a T-shirt vending cart. "But here, you need to crack down. It's Downtown Crossing."

Some 230,000 people walk through the neighborhood each day. An estimated 6,000 people live in the area, including students from nearby colleges.

Rosemarie Sansone, president of the Downtown Crossing Partnership, said residents and business owners are working with police to revitalize the neighborhood and are more engaged than ever.

"It's personal now," Sansone said. "It's personal to them because it's their family name" on the business. "It's . . . where they live."

She and others see promise in projects like the continued $650 million investment in the former Filene's property, where developers envision replacing the storied department store with retail shops, condominiums, a hotel, and offices, with a 38-story tower next door. The project could be completed by July 2011.

Down Washington Street, Suffolk University is renovating the former Modern Theatre into a residence hall and theater, and Emerson College is embarking on an $80 million renovation and addition to the Paramount Theater.

In the meantime, neighborhood businesses and residents have worked to clean up their properties. Macy's, the department store, helped spotlight Summer Street by setting up display windows, and planted pots now dot the area, serving as accessories for the neighborhood.

Through it all, Downtown Crossing still serves as a tourist destination for some.

Maureen White, a 61-year-old from Connecticut, recently returned to the area where her mother worked on Summer Street decades ago, but the businesses she recalled were no longer there. She thought of heading to the corner were she used to buy muffins, but a friend advised her not to stray from the main road. "Hold your pocketbook like this, walk fast, and turn your rings around," the friend told her.

White sees the potential in the neighborhood, but the police patrols made her nervous.

"This has a village feeling here, like I remember," she said, "but I don't feel the warm, fuzzy side at all."

Link (http://www.boston.com/news/local/articles/2008/10/22/citys_retail_vision_requires_changing_a_youth_hang out/ )

jass

10-22-2008, 09:09 AM

Re: Signs

Meanwhile, the mandarin oriental is using different signs as a selling points to make the building more vibrant and seem less like one building

Ron Newman

10-22-2008, 09:10 AM

I agree with removing obsolete signs. I walked into a store once and asked where Rogers Jewelers was, only to find that it didn't exist.

But banning flags? Why? Flags and banners add color and life to a commercial district. Plus, I doubt you can legally allow a US flag and ban a Canadian or French or South African one.

ablarc

10-22-2008, 10:00 AM

Hope they allow the big, vertical signs that once jutted out to characterize this narrow street. The Paramount sign is a surviving example.

cden4

10-22-2008, 10:08 AM

Here are the new regulations. They seem quite reasonable to me: http://www.cityofboston.gov/bra/pdf/PlanningPublications/Downtown%20CrossingDRAFT%20Signage%20Regulations%20.pdf

http://www.bostonredevelopmentauthority.org/pdf/PlanningPublications/Downtown%20Crossing%20Signage%20Guidelines%20Volume%201.pdf

CDubs

10-22-2008, 10:48 AM

But banning flags? Why? Flags and banners add color and life to a commercial district. Plus, I doubt you can legally allow a US flag and ban a Canadian or French or South African one.

My only beef with some of the flags in DTX is that once they succumb to the elements, become faded, torn, frayed, etc., the retailer the flag belongs to will rarely replace it with a new one, and it ends up looking pretty trashy. Other than that, I'm in agreement with you on this.

statler

10-22-2008, 10:55 AM

I remember when Macy and/or Filene's would put out flags for some cosmetic company and they were pure white. By the end of the day they were filthy. And they left them up for weeks.

sidewalks

10-22-2008, 11:07 AM

Speaking of wasteful boondoggles...there was an article in the Globe today regarding a Boston centered social networking website that the mayor wants to create at a cost of $1 million. At least Flaherty had the good sense to rip the mayor for such an absurd waste of money.

As for DTX...the only thing that is going to 'rebrand' the area is a substantive change. Filenes and 45 Province will definitely help. The city can contribute with new paving and street furniture.

BostonObserver

10-22-2008, 11:18 AM

Would any of those who's reaction to crime in downtown crossing was - it never happend to me so there can't be a problem - like to comment on the Globe's article?

statler

10-22-2008, 11:27 AM

^^ Sure.

Fear mongering sells papers.

Next?

Boston02124

10-22-2008, 11:55 AM

I used to fell very safe there but now it's gang central! I don,t want to be an innocent by stander that get's shot!

cden4

10-22-2008, 11:55 AM

I walk through Downtown Crossing every day. Do some of the teenagers make me a bit uneasy? Perhaps. Have I ever had a problem with anyone? No. As the article states, most of the problems are between the teenagers, not between the teenagers and the strangers.

I realize that part of being in a city is that you may sometimes be around people who you don't feel comfortable around. Whether the fear is real or perceived depends on ones' own experiences. I would much rather have the teenagers there and deal with my own insecurities than kick them out and turn DTX into another upscale area full of uppity white people.

atlrvr

10-22-2008, 12:11 PM

City's retail vision requires changing a youth hangout
...

For now, according to residents and business owners, the area is short of the world-class shopping destination the city has long envisioned.

"I think it's disappointing," said Alana Menitoff, who manages a handbag vending cart on Washington Street.

Says Alana, who stongly believes her cart is a positive contribution to the world-class destination envisioned.....*sigh*.

JimboJones

10-22-2008, 12:17 PM

cden4: great, could you give us your address? we'll ship them all over to your house.

palindrome

10-22-2008, 12:19 PM

hahaha ^^.

Can anyone answer why dtx (i know i know, but easier to type) has to even be a "world class" shopping area? (what is that anyways?) We already have Newbury st. (which dtx will never rival in terms of reputation) and copley/prudential malls, which also has all the expensive stuff.

History aside, I would rather this become a student infused neighborhood with an active night scene and more trendy/hip/original destinations than a so called "world class" shopping area.

I know this might sound crazy but i had a bad morning and am taking it out on Menino.

Ron Newman

10-22-2008, 12:25 PM

underground

10-22-2008, 12:41 PM

To sum up the Globe article for those who don't want to read it: GET OFF MY LAWN YOU DAMN KIDS!!!

ablarc

10-22-2008, 12:44 PM

...turn DTX into another upscale area full of uppity white people.
Barack Obama was called uppity by some Southern politician ... so what would you think about uppity black people?

ablarc

10-22-2008, 12:48 PM

I think it's great that young people are choosing to shop in Downtown Crossing.
Do they actually shop?

I'd be much more concerned about the district's future if its main customer base were people my age and above.
The actual customer base may well be.

statler

10-22-2008, 12:53 PM

Do they actually shop?
Of course they are, why do you think there a hundreds of sneaker stores, youth clothing shops, jewelry shops and cell phone stores in there area. How many business suits are being purchased at Hip Zeppi and Wet Seal?

Boston02124

10-22-2008, 12:53 PM

quote (most of the problems are between the teenagers, not between the teenagers and the strangers.) like I said I don,t want to be an innocent bystander! We have the same problem in Dot .I live in a beautiful nieghboorhood,I have 2 bullet holes in my house,8 kids shot or shot to death outside my gate,anything to do with me? no! but I still could be an innocent bystander caught in the middle.So, I take enough chances at home I don,t need to get caught up in it while I,m shopping downtown.ps I do most of my shopping in Quincy very safe!

cden4

10-22-2008, 12:54 PM

Barack Obama was called uppity by some Southern politician ... so what would you think about uppity black people?

First, I don't agree that Obama is uppity. Second, I don't like uppity people in general, or anyone who thinks they're "better" than someone else.

statler

10-22-2008, 12:56 PM

^^You "could" also win Megabucks. In fact your odds are probably a lot better.

BosDevelop

10-22-2008, 02:06 PM

I think it's great that young people are choosing to shop in Downtown Crossing. This means it's more likely they'll continue to shop there as they get older. I'd be much more concerned about the district's future if its main customer base were people my age and above.

I walk through Downtown Crossing at least twice a day. The vast majority of the young folks that are referenced in the Globe article do not shop in Downtown Crossing save for the occasional fast food purchase. There is a reason the store vacancy rate in Downtown Crossing is out of control and has been for years. There are storefronts that have been vacant for the better part of 5 years now.

ablarc

10-22-2008, 02:15 PM

...I don't like uppity people in general, or anyone who thinks they're "better" than someone else.
So ... it has nothing to do with race, right? That "uppity white people" just crept into your post, no meaning to the "white". Or maybe it just naturally goes with "uppity"?

statler

10-22-2008, 02:21 PM

I walk through Downtown Crossing at least twice a day. The vast majority of the young folks that are referenced in the Globe article do not shop in Downtown Crossing save for the occasional fast food purchase.

Who the hell is keeping Hip Zeppi, Wet Seal, Foot Locker, Lids, Skechers, Mahattan, etc in business? It ain't suburban kids coming in from Weston, it ain't the 9-5er's and it ain't the Ron Newmans.

Lurker

10-22-2008, 02:34 PM

Who the hell is keeping Hep Zeppi, Wet Seal, Foot Locker, Lids, Skechers, Mahattan, etc in business?

I dunno the thug kids who steal stuff, pawn it at one of the many crooked jewelery and cellphone stores, and then buy $300 sneakers? Ever read about the epidemic of shoplifting in Downtown Crossing? It was one of the worst locations for retail shrinkage in the country in the 1980s!

This is only considered a racial issue because some idiots will sue over discrimination instead of admitting bad behavior is unacceptable by any gangs of youths. If Quincy Market was overrun with lily white Italian thugs behaving the in the same manner, I doubt it would be considered acceptable either.

I don't care if the kids are freakin' orange skinned ethnic ompa loompas in white overalls brandishing candy canes and listening to blaring polka, thuggish behavior, littering, and loitering is unacceptably detrimental to any shopping district.

statler

10-22-2008, 02:40 PM

So your assumption that most of the goods bought in these stores are paid for with ill-gotten loot is based on crime statistics of the 1980's?

Ron Newman

10-22-2008, 02:47 PM

Yeah, how are crime statistics from the days of the Reagan administration relevant now?

Lurker

10-22-2008, 02:59 PM

So your assumption that most of the goods bought in these stores are paid for with ill-gotten loot is based on crime statistics of the 1980's?

No, it's based on all the police reports of stolen jewelery, GPS devices, and cell phones being 'found' on thugs being collared in Downtown Crossing or being identified by people who happen to see their stuff being hawked in a store window. Try buying a 'used' cellphone from a non chain store down there, it's the shadiest thing you'll legally ever do, if you don't believe me.

Do you honestly think a bunch of kids who are never in school, never at work, obviously don't have rich parents, can somehow magically afford $300 dollar sneakers, enough bling to make Laurence Tureaud jealous, really expensive cell phones, new jackets and hats on a weekly basis?

statler

10-22-2008, 03:20 PM

Heh. Reminds me of a few jokes I heard as a kid (paraphrased of course).

Q.What do you call an urban youth on a bike?
A. Thief!

Q. What do you can an urban youth in a suit?
A. Defendant

Lurker

10-22-2008, 04:28 PM

Well I guess those hoodies must be perfectly swell people and that's why stores have not problem staying business, PAYING customers feel safe in the area at all times of day, there are never fights, intimidation, theft, vandalism, nope it's all a sterotype in peoples' minds. Turning a blind eye to a problem doesn't make it go away and taking discussion off the table because someone is going to cry racism doesn't help either.

Thugs are thugs, no matter what their ethnicity is, until the city and the politically correct crowd can acknowledge that fact and move them out of Downtown Crossing, the place will continue to be a municipal money pit.

Ron Newman

10-22-2008, 04:56 PM

Where should young people shop then, if not here?

yigal

10-22-2008, 05:04 PM

I wonder how Macy's and Borders survive in DTX. Clearly their clientelle is different from the teenagers in question.

Lurker

10-22-2008, 06:11 PM

Borders is on the edge of Downtown crossing close to major tourist attractions and swanky hotels. Macy's has the pass through office crowd and is directly accessible from the subway. If no loitering was enforced on Winter Street and the Corner Mall was replaced with a major retailer taking up the Gilchrist building, it would make a major difference.

It's the concentration of stores which tend to attract troublesome youth and their loitering that is creating the problem. One group hangs around in front of one store, and exponentially their friends or rivals passing through start to hang around and it becomes an issue of critical mass. If the stores were spread out evenly throughout Downtown Crossing's side streets and mid Washington Street with other shops of differing clientele and economic strata interspersed between them, it would eliminate a lot of sociological problems.

ablarc

10-22-2008, 06:20 PM

If the stores were spread out evenly throughout Downtown Crossing's side streets and mid Washington Street with other shops of differing clientele and economic strata interspersed between them, it would eliminate a lot of sociological problems.
In other words, desegregate the shopping?

caravaggiste

10-22-2008, 07:28 PM

haha, well I'm sorry but you can't prevent people from hanging out with their friends in DTX. Just because it isn't white, stagnant, and homogeneous - something this city seems to like - doesn't mean it's bad. The issue is a lot larger than these 'thugs' hanging out around the area. It is rather ignorant for anyone to suggest such a thing. My friends from out of town and in design/planning and ME don't cite these issues as errors or MAJOR issues for the area. Sure, mass congregation in certain areas can be detrimental to certain storefront passages but other than that, it isn't a problem, and if it is to some people then they should reconsider their existence. There is a BPD kiosk in the area you talk about - which is further proof they don't do their jobs correctly.

vanshnookenraggen

10-22-2008, 07:31 PM

Damn kids, get off my..... sidewalk!

commuter guy

10-22-2008, 07:35 PM

I also usually walk through Downtown Crossing once a day too. After school hours in the afternoon it can get seedy with kids loitering, however I have never had a problem and I don't feel any fear when walking through. There are just too many people and police nearby to feel fearful in my opinion. As far as the shooting a few weeks ago, I doubt its a sign that the area will become a war zone, its likely an abberation. As some may recall, there was a shooting in the upscale copley mall a few years back when rival kids happened to cross paths. I don't think Downtown Crossing is a dangerous place to visit and this is coming from a father of two kids nearing middle age and originally from Nebraska. A bit seedy yes, but not dangerous. Also there is a huge leap from relatively minor types of crimes like shoplifting etc. and violent crime like shooting. I just don't think Downtown Crossing is a hotbed for violent crime like shootings, rape etc.

Also, I was pleased to recognize the name of the BRA project manager, Andrew Grace, quoted in the Herald article on the new signage regs. If its the same Andrew Grace who used to work at Goody Clancy, I had brief interactions with him when I was involved in the "Roslindale Main Streets" program. My impression of him was that he was very well versed in urban design issues. It makes me feel better to find out that the BRA is hiring some talent and not all political hacks.

Lurker

10-22-2008, 08:32 PM

Randi Lathorpe is in charge of Downtown Crossing, unless that's changed that's part of the problem. Her unwillingness to confront zoning, leaving everything to draconian variance processes, and often deferring inquiries to ill-informed minions has been a serious deterrent to projects in the zone.

commuter guy

10-22-2008, 08:50 PM

Just to clarify - Andrew Grace from the BRA was only quoted in the article re: the signage program. He may not have much to do with development projects in the area.

atlrvr

10-23-2008, 09:14 AM

For the record, I really generally don't mind DTX in its current diverse form. Perhaps if I had visited it decades ago, I might have a different perception, but to me its just a loud, busy, place with a variety of shops where I can buy most anything I need except for staple groceries and designer fashion.

I also think that people behave in a way reflective of their physical environment. All the money spent on branding, lobbying, studying, etc should be redirected to improving the physical appearances. Perhaps tax-credits for facade rehabs, money spent on upkeep of city property, etc. And for the love of god, spend the several million to completely update the appearance of DTX subway station.

Dark, dirty, crowded stations are catalysts for crime. Bright, clean, airy stations would reduce crime.

Like I said, people actions are often reflective of the physical environment they are in. I've never heard of purse snatchers roaming BPL, even though I would assume it would be easy targets. The social expecatation is you act proper in a clean, orderly place.

aHigherBoston78

10-23-2008, 11:12 AM

*Reality check*

The problem with these kids is that they come from sh!tty, broken homes. The majority of them probably live in single-parent households with no discipline and are never taught personal responsibility. They don't give a sh!t about anyone else but themselves. Their only concerns in life are:

* cash/money/bling
* getting laid
* appearing tough

Besides that, nothing else matters. Until DTX is cleaned up and more police are on patrol, these losers will continue to congregate there.

As for feeling safe? I'm fine there. But I really don't want my mother or sister around there.

pelhamhall

10-23-2008, 12:03 PM

There is a parallel case study for Boston's DTX in New York's Times Square:

It is ironic that as part of the revitalization/sanitation of Times Square, new rules regarding signage were also enacted - but exactly the oppposite of Menino's plan.

Guiliani's plan was to let the free market retailers decide what kind of signage would work for free market retailers. Go nuts - have fun.

You could now build whatever wild, crazy signage that you wanted. Free from restrictions of government, retailers were able to literally bring the former hooker/crime district to life with lighting, banners, etc. There is a 30-story high neon red "Ernst & Young" vertical sign for example. Imagine such a thing on One Franklin...

The sterilization (or revitalization depending on your outlook) of Times Square was partly accomplished by abolishing the city's signage policy - the opposite of Menino's plan.

It could never happen here - Guiliani is a free market capitalist and Menino is a true-blue socialist.

Like most Boston regulations, the ultimate plan is to make the city look clean, sanitized and sterilized. All signs must be the same small size. Font sizes will be regulated by the newly-appointed Font Czar, colors will be approved by "concerned citizen councils" etc, etc.

This is not unique to DTX - there is a BRA plan for the Dorchester Avenue corridor, Lower Allston, Brighton Center, Seaport. Communist Mike Ross wants to steal the ugly buildings on Cambridge Street and make them "historic" so the "Historic Czar" can exert control over what types of windows home-owners may want to buy, etc.

If you want to know what the ultimate realization of this socialist policy towards urban design, check out Pyongyang in North Korea. Individualism is stripped away so the "district" can present a unified, orderly, and clean face forward.

So DTX plans to solve its image problem by removing it's image altogether and fading into the "context" of orderly, clean and neat new Boston.

atlrvr

10-23-2008, 12:38 PM

Pelhamhall....I don't think you were responding to what I stated above, but in case you were I want to clarify that I'm not promoting sterility or even heavy-handed design standards, rather general upkeep, and improvement of publically owned spaces. I agree the government's roll should be limited to addressing public infrastructure, and encouraging private businesses to make investments, but staying out of micromanaging the investments.

pelhamhall

10-23-2008, 01:31 PM

I'm sorry - I should have been more clear - I was responding to the Boston Globe article about how the city will add another costly layer of bureaucracy so that somebody's nephew can get a job reviewing signage standards, fonts and colors for DTX, and how this person and like-minded citizen-councils will do the work of designers, architects, retailers, and environmental branders.

TheRifleman

10-23-2008, 02:46 PM

I think the markets are in more trouble than you can imagine. I would not want to be building anytype of skyscrapers at this point. The downtown deal will end up costing more than it was worth.

Filenes not sure how this will turn out. The numbers are probably not making sense at this point to BUILD. How much do you think the Condos will sell for?

pelhamhall

10-23-2008, 02:59 PM

^ a good reason to vote against Question 2.

Joking, joking, my friends.

The Filene's deal is signed from what we know, the money is lent, secured and currently being spent on the skyscraper.

A recession generally lasts 6-12 months... who knows if we're in one and for how long we've been in one. This building will open in 3-4 years. Who knows where we'll be then. The terror in the markets will be good for Filene's because it's stalling possible competition from getting built at South Station, Gov't Center Garage, TransNational Place, etc.

It's simple supply and demand. When it opens, demand may be high, but there will be no supply delivered during this year

cden4

10-23-2008, 03:07 PM

The problem with leaving signage totally up to the business owners is that many of them cheap out and put up inexpensive signs that look like crap and age horribly. The most common worst offender is the internally lit lightbox sign. It fades very quickly turning the white plastic yellow and looks horrible.

Boston Main Streets funds signage improvements for business but has some stipulations on signage size, materials, etc, but leave a lot of flexibility in the overall design. IMO this is a good thing. It's helped to spruce up Allston and other neighborhoods, as business owners get some grant money and end up with a nicer sign than they necessarily would have created without the guidance.

Of course as with anything, regulations can go too far, but left to their own devices business owners can make some pretty bone-headed moves, saving money in the short term, but to the detriment of the neighborhood and even their own business in many cases. The key is finding that middle ground.

pelhamhall

10-23-2008, 03:50 PM

A large problem is that people with the real big signs have their rights grandfathered - but can't change the sign.

Example:

I want to erect a five-story high, neon, glowing orange, animated jumbotron at the entrance of historic Back Bay. I am not allowed to do so.

Flipside: I am the Citgo sign and you cannot remove me. I am "historic"

riffgo

10-23-2008, 04:17 PM

Fifty years ago there were gigantic animated electrical signs all over the area. The Charles River reflected a profusion of colored lights from the Cambridge side. There was an enormous animated Anheuser-Busch sign in City Square, a Handschumacher Frankfurt sign near Faneuil Hall that simulated fireworks, a Cities Service Fuel sign(or was it White Fuel?) in Kenmore Square that replicated a gushing oil derrick, and others. They were all identifiable "landmarks" that added a great deal of pizzazz to the area's nightlife. I don't think it's so much a matter of whether we should have such things, but rather where they should be. I understand there are three areas in the city (South Boston Waterfront, Theatre District, and Kenmore Square) where such signage is actually now encouraged.

Ron Newman

10-23-2008, 04:32 PM

The Cities Service sign (a clover) was replaced by the CITGO sign when that company changed its name and logo.

From the late 1970s, I remember the White Fuel sign with the animated oil derrick. It was on top of the Buckminster Hotel.

There also used to be lighted signs along the Cambridge bank of the Charles River between the Longfellow Bridge and Lechmere. One of them was for 'Electronics Corporation of America' which I guess had a factory there. And don't forget the Coca-Cola sign on the Allston riverbank, about where Genzyme is today.

There was a CAINS Mayonnaise sign near the railroad tracks on Vassar or Albany Street in Cambridge, which you could see from across the river in Boston because there were no buildings yet in the way. One or more MIT buildings probably occupy that site today.

The SHELL sign on Memorial Drive in Cambridge is a lonely survivor from this era.

Boston02124

10-23-2008, 04:37 PM

Don,t forget the Cains mayo sign long gone!

tobyjug

10-23-2008, 05:15 PM

There was a dandy Coca Cola sign along Storrow Drive in Allston. When the bottling plant was taken down, the sign was supposed to be preserved and reinstalled. It languished in a corner of the Beacon Park rail yard for a couple of years. Then one day, people noticed it was gone! Shock! Horror! A great New England mystery!

Actually, the yard master got tired of looking at this pile of lightbulbs and ordered a crew to smash the sign to bits and haul it away.

czsz

10-23-2008, 05:20 PM

Boston Main Streets funds signage improvements for business but has some stipulations on signage size, materials, etc, but leave a lot of flexibility in the overall design. IMO this is a good thing. It's helped to spruce up Allston and other neighborhoods, as business owners get some grant money and end up with a nicer sign than they necessarily would have created without the guidance.

Everything Boston Main Streets touches seems to wind up looking like a uniformed Maine outlet mall.

blade_bltz

10-23-2008, 07:30 PM

Two of my personal favorite neon signs, both recently taken down: Dunkin Donuts on Market st in Brighton, and Fontaine's on Rt 1. West Roxbury.

In both cases the replacements are decidedly inferior. Understandably, the waving chicken had to go, as the restaurant closed down...Still, no question of its landmark status in that area.

Beton Brut

10-23-2008, 11:21 PM

Actually, the yard master got tired of looking at this pile of lightbulbs and ordered a crew to smash the sign to bits and haul it away.

Swell. Was he carted away for vandalism?

...and Fontaine's on Rt 1. West Roxbury. Understandably, the waving chicken had to go, as the restaurant closed down...

Classic! This sign made an appearance in a good friend's undergraduate thesis. If you're a Sox fan, you may know his blog (http://www.survivinggrady.com).

LowerRoxbury

10-24-2008, 01:10 AM

Every time I inadvertently re-strengthen my faith in this physically beautiful city, I am convinced to rid it once again. So ignorant are some comments made on this site, I rarely contribute to a forum that I’ve been following since the days of Boston Skyscraper Guy. hiFor me, at times, this has merely become a place of news updates without the desire to contribute. Although opinion is free, as is speech, this is a shared world and should be a city of shared space. It would be so unkind if I were to have some of the same views of the young kids that congregate on the beautiful plaza of the Boston Public Library, smoking and skating about while nearly colliding with unsuspecting pedestrians. I don’t assume they’ve come from torn homes, or that they’re trouble. I realize that I live in a city metro with millions of people from all walks of life and that this is the very element that makes this place beautiful and worth living in. Taking the same situation downtown with a different race of youth and the kids are thugs, trouble, and from single parented broken homes??? I’m saddened by this attitude which is honestly and unfortunately way too familiar to me growing up in Boston. If Boston can learn one thing, and from any other city, have a look at the public integration of New York City where space is shared and people aren’t afraid of their own shadows.... Give me a break Boston, ugh!

Let’s face it, this city is beautiful, but quite a bore unless eating and going to the theatre all day and night after people watching and walkin around all damn day is your thing.
Let us take on this simple math problem, lol…

Boston minus Kids that hang in front of Berklee
minus “Thugs” from broken homes hanging downtown
minus Hipsters hanging at the top of Newbury
minus Hazardous Skateboarding
minus All neighborhoods West of Mass Ave, etc...

= A flavorless Yuppville lacking public social skills and appeal to anyone other than other boring individuals that believe the city should be washed of anything non-Jamaica Pond like and White-American.

Boston, Boston how I love you so, but in order for you to grow, there are way too many screwed minds within your city limits that have to go…

Give me a minute to go back into my protective bubble.

statler

10-24-2008, 08:28 AM

Well said LowerRoxbury.

yigal

10-24-2008, 09:07 AM

It kinda reminds me of the graffiti thread - anyone who prefers to see clean, safe streets is an elitist intellectual snob. Many cities would go a long way to have anything like Boston's "sterile" environment.

statler

10-24-2008, 09:26 AM

Everyone wants clean, safe streets.

Where we differ is what we think those street should look like. A few people here don't think haven't teenagers hanging around make the street unclean or unsafe. Some people do.

JimboJones

10-24-2008, 11:12 AM

I don't remember seeing any "ignorant" posts on this site.

Kids riding skateboards "hazardously" are something that should not be allowed.

Kids congregating in DTX should be allowed, but they don't just congregate, they jump, shout, and push each other around. On occasion, one will whip out a gun and shoot someone (please see the police reports for more information).

Kids congregating at the Cambridgeside Galleria do the same thing (and, with the same results, according to media reports).

When I was growing up, kids wandered the malls looking for fun and trouble.

There are some very good reasons that "loitering" isn't allowed.

For anyone to say, "You live in a city, you should have to put up with this stuff," is being hopelessly naive. Also, most likely, he or she doesn't live in one.

Why should someone in the city have to put up with crap that he/she doesn't have to, in the suburbs?

Teenagers are loud; it's the same everywhere. It annoyed me when I was one!

caravaggiste

10-24-2008, 12:07 PM

Haha well if you want the 'endless safety of the suburbs' then go to them. Boston violent crime is relatively low. There is a predilection for these kinds of conditions in an urban area.

Also you mean to tell me that if a bunch of random non 'thug' looking kids were congregating around the area almost on a daily basis, you would say the same thing? Something tells me you wouldn't nor would a lot of people. It would probably be a non-issue.

All of these factors you mention; skateboarders, ethnically diverse groups of young adults and high school students are a fundamental subject when it comes to making good cities. As I have said previously; homogeny, stagnation aren't what makes a good city especially in our so called downtown area. Sure, this violent crime you speak of should be thwarted but it is hardly an issue EVER and for someone to suggest that this group of young adults hanging out with their friends, etc. be broken up is a naive statement. Anyone has the right to do something in a place they live UNLESS they are killing each other or putting other people in serious danger - which isn't the case. If it is, the BPD SHOULD take care of it and they usually do.

tobyjug

10-24-2008, 12:33 PM

Swell. Was he carted away for vandalism?

No. It is an "unsolved mystery" that our journalists write about every 5 years or so.

As to DTX, I was out on Winter St. when the shooting occurred. Took some "shots" of my own, too. It wasn't very dramatic. Just a couple of kids with a beef.

35 plus years ago things got settled with fists, or perhaps with some boot leather. Those were the days...

Anyway, between 3 p.m. and 5 p.m. Monday through Friday, have a dozen beat cops actually walking around in pairs (rather than leaning on their Harleys or hiding in their little glass hut) on the turf between School St. and West St. and things will settle down real quick. The dangerous kids will screw, and the good kids will continue to have fun.

Ron Newman

10-24-2008, 12:55 PM

There are some very good reasons that "loitering" isn't allowed.

What? Loitering is one of the things that cities are for. I often like to loiter in Davis Square, just eating a sandwich or drinking coffee and watching people.

LowerRoxbury

10-24-2008, 03:52 PM

I guess Im back again, lol

Thank you for the comments everyone…

My relief does not only stem from the fact that there are obviously others that can identify some of the issues that I mentioned, but that there is a pattern of evidence for that mentioned.

In no way did I imply that violence should be tolerated. Jimbo, hello sir, I am sorry that you have failed to notice the blatant unfair labeling in past comments on this site. I’m not on the attack, just out for a little fair play. There are so many venues where congregation becomes “disruptive” that we cannot handle DTX and its “issues” any differently from a parade or any other gathering or organized event where the same takes place. When I attend our sports parades, I understand that all happenings are just pieces of the “Soundtrack of the City”. Maybe I’m too lenient, but I’ve learned from young that sharing space with people, having 5 siblings myself, lends to an environment where shit happens, simply put. Do I agree with it? Not exactly, but I don’t agree with the perceived 100% intolerant attitudes of those that CHOOSE to dwell in an urban space.

Here are a few points one must familiarize themselves with when living in ANY city:

• The suburbs are a boring ass soundtrack and you should be tolerant of many of the things that take place in this city when there are an additional 13,000 others living within a square mile radius of your home instead of 763…
• The very infrastructure of your city has been designed to accommodate the changes of a space inhabiting 20X more people than an area of a similar size in a suburban area
• Cats are ramped in the streets as are rats, thugs, crooked cops, loud teenagers, hookers, sirens, drugs, and fist fights involving an old man on an electric scooter and a young teenaged boy riding the same train home from school.
• Some folks have bad B.O which you may encounter often when you ride packed trains during rush hour
• Homeless people will ask you for money as will junkies
• Etc… must I go on?

When you fail to realize these things, you fail to realize the freedom that you have when you don’t MOVE OUT!

Hopefully, I have not been jaded by the large buildings lining Seaver Street; foolishly believing that I grew up in a city...

Go Sox, maybe next year…

tobyjug

10-24-2008, 04:13 PM

I just walked back from Borders to read the latest issue of "Octane" and to take a nap. You know what? DTX is just beautiful right now. Warm enough. Sidewalks crowded. Everybody relaxed and happy. Sun at a pretty angle. And all the dumb ass pictures, meeters and greeters, potted plants, planted pot, none of it had one bit to do with it.

It wasn't the "Shopping Precinct of Horror".

statler

10-24-2008, 05:21 PM

Wow and you made it out alive?!? I hope you clutched you purse real tight and walked as quickly as possible, because according to crime statistics and media reports you have an approx 120 percent chance of being robbed, killed, raped or beaten if walk through there.

Beton Brut

10-24-2008, 06:29 PM

Haven't we already had this conversation? (http://www.archboston.org/community/showthread.php?t=1272&page=24)

blade_bltz

10-24-2008, 06:50 PM

I remember that like it was yesterday.

Scary how time flies even when Boston's development doesn't

tobyjug

10-29-2008, 12:37 PM

"3 for $2.50"

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh109/tobyjug_2008/L1100438.jpg

Beton Brut

10-29-2008, 01:11 PM

^^ Another sad loss to our central shopping district.

czsz

10-29-2008, 02:03 PM

Does that sign indicate that it's only closing 75% of itself?

Beton Brut

10-29-2008, 04:12 PM

75% chance of closing?

statler

11-21-2008, 10:54 AM

Here we go again....

Boston Globe (http://www.boston.com/business/articles/2008/11/21/a_new_but_familiar_plan_for_downtown/) - November 21, 2008
A new (but familiar) plan for downtown

By Casey Ross, Globe Staff | November 21, 2008

Mayor Thomas M. Menino and business executives are moving to create a special tax on Downtown Crossing business owners to raise millions of dollars a year to pay for streetscape improvements and other upgrades to the gritty shopping district.

Merchants and commercial property owners in a 20-block area between City Hall and the Theater District would be asked to approve the tax to supplement city services. The money, up to $4 million annually, would go toward a variety of enhancements, including hiring more people to help clean up the area and give directions to tourists and shoppers.

City officials and executives are seeking to create what's known as a business improvement district. They said that it will help soften the ambiance of Downtown Crossing, where vacant storefronts mix with million-dollar condominiums, decades-old jewelry stores, and swank new restaurants.

"This is going to be the new retail area of our city, and its best days are still ahead of it," Menino said. "I'm very bullish on this idea. We have some good leadership in place to make it a reality."

Supporters said the district is critical to efforts to revitalize the neighborhood, especially as economic troubles undermine development projects and efforts to lure new retailers. A $700 million project to redevelop the former Filene's site was put on hold recently because developers could not get construction loans.

"Now more than ever, people need some protection for their investments, to make sure the streets are as clean as they can be," said Rosemarie Sansone, president of the Downtown Crossing Partnership, a business association. "Frankly, Boston should have been the first city in the nation to have a business improvement district."

Instead, it is among the last. Many major cities in the country, from Seattle to Denver to Hartford, have at least one improvement district, and some have multiple designations. New York City used the program to revitalize Times Square, which is now a vibrant eating and shopping area after being known for years as a district more defined by seedy taverns and nightclubs.

Efforts to create an improvement district in Downtown Crossing failed twice in the 1990s because of lack of support. It faced opposition from the Boston Police Patrolmen's Association, a labor union, because of plans to hire private security guards. That idea has been removed in the latest version.

Business executives involved in the current initiative said they are still crafting the exact dimensions of the district and how the tax would be assessed. But they said it has broader support than previous efforts, especially as new residents and businesses begin to move into the area.

There are now 6,000 people living in Downtown Crossing, a sharp increase from the few hundred who lived in the neighborhood in the early 1990s. New restaurants such as Ivy, on Temple Place, are joining with standard-bearers such as Locke-Ober to give the neighborhood more options.

Yesterday, Suffolk University and city officials broke ground on the $42 million redevelopment of the Modern Theatre, which will reopen in the fall of 2010 with a new 184-seat black box theater and gallery space, as well as a 12-story dormitory.

Developer Ronald Druker, who owns several buildings in Downtown Crossing, including the Corner Mall, said the district would help create a more unified design, similar to the environment created by the red brick plaza and classic street lighting of Faneuil Hall.

"You walk into Faneuil Hall, and it's something different," Druker said. "It's cleaner, it's brighter, it's better promoted, and that's what we want, so there's a different sense of place in Downtown Crossing."

The effort to create an improvement district remains in preliminary stages. Sixty percent of commercial property owners would have to agree before it could be submitted to the City Council and mayor for approval.

"No one is expecting Downtown Crossing to become Disney World," said John Rattigan, a lawyer for the firm DLA Piper that is coordinating the initiative. "But bringing more attention to bear and more supplemental services can improve the experience for people who live there and work there."

Casey Ross can be reached at cross@globe.com.

kennedy

11-21-2008, 01:56 PM

Well, at least it won't be Disney World.

vanshnookenraggen

11-21-2008, 02:04 PM

Well, at least it won't be Disney World.

SHhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!! You'll jinx it.

JimboJones

11-21-2008, 02:18 PM

Expect to hear from Ms Kressel about this. Private companies and individuals have to help where the city can't provide?

Why can't our tax dollars go to keep Downtown Crossing in good shape?

aws129

11-21-2008, 02:35 PM

Tax dollars WILL go to providing the services. The difference is that the $$ will only come from the people -- local property and business owners -- who benefit from the additional services.

Think of it as a local small-scale government that will supplement, but not compete with, City Hall.

I can't believe they haven't done it sooner.

sidewalks

11-21-2008, 02:39 PM

Ugghh...BIDs have been proven to be successful. Why can't people in this damn town accept a good idea on its merits?

BostonObserver

11-21-2008, 03:45 PM

Ugghh...BIDs have been proven to be successful. Why can't people in this damn town accept a good idea on its merits?

cops, cops,cops

Every time this has been proposed in the past the cops show up in force at the meeting to intimidate and surpise the plan is droped. They should have droped the private security component long ago.

JimboJones

11-21-2008, 05:43 PM

Super, then I get to stop paying for the city's schools, since I don't have kids in them, right?

Just because they work doesn't make them right.

The New York City BIDs work wonderfully; I just don't know if I support them, here.

The DTX community is all for it, the Mayor has shot it down, probably for the reason you mention.

kennedy

11-21-2008, 09:58 PM

If the DTX community is willing, then why does it matter to everyone else? They are the ones getting a tax hike, not anyone else.

underground

11-22-2008, 10:44 AM

Here's (http://www.archboston.org/community/showthread.php?t=2038) our previous epic discussion on BIDs

bostonnative

11-22-2008, 11:15 PM

BostonObserver

11-23-2008, 01:18 PM

A flavorless Yuppville lacking public social skills and appeal to anyone other than other boring individuals that believe the city should be washed of anything non-Jamaica Pond like and White-American

Death to yuppies.

You guys should organize a pogrom to rid us of all this yuppie scum. You have every right to demand that only people like yourselves can live in this city.

Die yuppie die.

czsz

11-23-2008, 01:31 PM

You have every right to demand that only people like yourselves can live in this city.

Kudos for misconstruing LowerRoxbury's point as much as logically possible.

BostonObserver

11-23-2008, 01:38 PM

Kudos for misconstruing LowerRoxbury's point as much as logically possible.

That's a matter of opinion. Didn't some one recenty post saying name calling on this forum doesn't help, or is generalizing about yuppies ok.

czsz

11-23-2008, 02:32 PM

No, it's not a matter of opinion. He said he didn't want a city that was only filled with yuppies. You literally took his statement of "I prefer the greatest degree of social diversity possible" to mean "only people like myself should live here".

BostonObserver

11-23-2008, 06:09 PM

I have never seen the term yuppie used in anything but as a derogatory term. Including on this forum.

kennedy

11-23-2008, 06:22 PM

I have never seen the term yuppie used anywhere but this forum.

BostonObserver

11-23-2008, 06:28 PM

If Boston can learn one thing, and from any other city, have a look at the public integration of New York City where space is shared and people aren’t afraid of their own shadows.... Give me a break Boston, ugh!

Give me a minute to go back into my protective bubble.

I think you have spent way too much time in that protective bubble:

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/ny_crime/2008/11/15/2008-11-15_two_white_teens_arrested_in_alleged_elec.html

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/22/nyregion/22crown.html?_r=1&scp=1&sq=Crown%20Heights%20&st=cse

I won't even get into how many Mexicans are killed and beat up on Long Island.

Race is a national issue, not just Boston's.

BostonObserver

11-23-2008, 06:33 PM

I have never seen the term yuppie used anywhere but this forum.

The Boston Globe loves that term, In the 80's the never used it without mentioning brie and chardonnay in the same paragraph. Herald uses it too.

Maybe we can rename this forum bubbleBOSTON.org

BostonObserver

11-24-2008, 08:46 AM

I hope I don't come across as down playing Boston racial troubles. Boston has a long history of problems starting with the pilgrims, terrible terrible people. I just think that too many people think this is unique to Boston.

kennedy

11-24-2008, 08:45 PM

...In the 80's...

'nuff said.

kz1000ps

11-30-2008, 10:14 AM

District hopes to do well by doing good for artists

http://cache.boston.com/resize/bonzai-fba/Globe_Photo/2008/11/26/1227758924_6512/539w.jpg
Boston Handmade artists plan to open their free storefront at 505 Washington St. this weekend to holiday shoppers. (Jessica Burko)

By Kimberly Sanfeliz
Globe Correspondent / November 30, 2008

Amid the chain retailers hawking Christmas sweaters and mass-produced neckties, something new is sprouting this holiday season in Downtown Crossing.

Two local property owners, the Druker Co. and Northland Investment Corp., have donated four retail spaces along Washington and Bromfield streets to local artists, as part of the city's Downtown Crossing Economic Improvement Initiative. From the storefronts, the artists will sell their handmade wares - everything from sea-glass jewelry and children's clothing made from recycled men's shirts to hand-spun cotton figurine Christmas ornaments and photographs of Boston scenes - until Dec. 28.

Some 525 businesses call Downtown Crossing home, and about 230,000 pedestrians travel its streets per day, making it one of the largest shopping districts in the city. But the area is going through what Randi Lathrop, the Boston Redevelop ment Authority's deputy director for community planning, calls a transition period.

"This was the only shopping district for years" in Boston, said Lathrop, the brains behind the donated storefront plan. "It was going downhill."

The economic improvement initiative, launched by the BRA in 2004, was designed to reverse that pattern.

Though the number of empty storefronts is relatively low for the district, according to Lathrop, many are in its heart, where Winter and Summer streets cross Washington. The temporary art spaces, three on Washington Street and one on Bromfield, are prime real estate, and their visibility gives artists a chance to sell their pieces in a highly trafficked area beyond the niche market of galleries and weekend art shows.

Jessica Burko, a Jamaica Plain-based photographer and mixed-media artist, said that when the BRA approached her early this month with the offer of a space at 505 Washington St., she jumped at the chance. Burko is the founder of Boston Handmade, an almost 2-year-old collective of Massachusetts artists and crafts people who meet occasionally to network and who are all registered sellers on etsy.com, a crafts website.

Burko quickly moved to set up a bank account, get a postal box and credit-card machine, and put the word out to Boston Handmade members to staff the store during operating hours. The group spent the rest of the time renovating the space, which Burko described as "very raw."

"I was worried no one wanted to work, but I was wrong," she said.

The time crunch proved to be the main challenge for Jen Matson, who is responsible for the space at 34 Bromfield St. A board member of the United South End Artists, Matson said she was approached only about a week and a half ago. However, unlike the space Burko inherited, Matson's storefront once housed a Ritz Camera shop and was more retail ready, making it easier for the artists to move in. Matson is now focused on having the shop ready for the open house that each storefront is holding this Thursday.

Each of the four groups that received donated space - the other two are Alternate Currents at 604 Washington St., and JP Art Market at 439 Washington St. - is responsible for staffing its own store and being open, at a minimum, Thursdays through Saturdays, 11 a.m. to 7 p.m., and Sundays from noon to 5 p.m. Although the groups won't be charged rent, they must pay the electric bill and the cost of insurance. The artists keep 100 percent of the selling price.

"The expenses are going to be low, but it's a busy time of the year" for artists, Matson said. Many artists she works with spend December weekends at various art shows and are unable to leave their pieces in the store for long periods of time. "The main challenge is going to be coordinating everyone to staff and inventory the store."

Matson, a photographer, said despite the challenges, this project is a great opportunity for artists to reach out to a more diversified public and for shoppers to buy directly from the people who created a work they admire.

"Those of us who do art shows find that people really like meeting the artists," she said. "They love the story behind the art."

Link (http://www.boston.com/news/local/articles/2008/11/30/district_hopes_to_do_well_by_doing_good_for_artist s/ )

czsz

11-30-2008, 04:51 PM

I like this.

JimboJones

11-30-2008, 08:49 PM

Art so good its practically "priceless".

kennedy

11-30-2008, 08:50 PM

This is good. I can't decide if starving artists belong more in FP or DTX or somewhere else...

PaulC

12-01-2008, 10:51 AM

Downtown crossing seems to finaly be getting their act together. Her are a few of the events they are now planning:

Downtown Crossing Wine Crawl

December 3, 2008
5:30pm-7:30pm

The Downtown Crossing Wine Crawl will take place Wednesday December
3rd from 5:30pm-7:30pm. Pick up your free wine crawl pass at any
participating restaurants: Ivy, Kennedy's Midtown, Kingston Station,
Mantra, Marliave, Max & Dylans, and Locke-Ober. Come enjoy FREE wine
and appetizers at the particpating restaurants. RSVP to
events@downtowncrossing.org

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Art MEETS Culture: Artists' Open House

December 4, 2008
5:30pm-7:30pm

439, 505, 604 Washington Street: Make these local businesses part of your holiday shopping by purchasing from the artists located in these spaces.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Home Sweet Home for the Holidays:
Living in Downtown Crossing
Over six thousand people live in Downtown Crossing - do you know where?

On Saturday, December 13th from 11:00 AM to 4:00 PM, the Downtown Crossing neighborhood invites the public in to discover the unique spaces, breathtaking views and convenience of living in Downtown Crossing, espcially during the Holiday Season. This self-guided walking tour visits 12 homes, from ultra-modern to historic and from loft to penthouse. Find out where over 6000 people live in Downtown Crossing, and discover their favorite shops and restaurants in the neighborhood.

The tour can be accomplished in less than two hours, but visitors should consider making a day of it and exploring Downtown Crossing's other attractions including historic buildings, restaurants and retailers. Tickets are available in advance for $20 and on the day of the tour for $25 at 520 Washington Street (near the intersection of Washington and West Streets).

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

complete list:
http://www.downtowncrossing.org/events/

Lrfox

12-01-2008, 10:55 AM

^DTX has been advertising on TV and promoting elsewhere pretty heavily. I was there on Saturday evening and there was quite a crowd. It actually felt very inviting and warm (despite the temperature).

As far as the artist thing goes, I like it. I know places like Pawtucket have had similar initiatives that have been successful, and Fall River just implemented something similar this Fall, but it's too early to tell how that will play out. Obviously DTX is a bird of a different feather so I doubt this incentive would be anything but a big success.

Bubbybu

12-01-2008, 11:40 AM

now we know how Druker got his Shreve Crump and Low Proposal to pass the muster....he promised Mayor Menino that he would donate retail space in DTX for 'hip' artists

BostonObserver

12-01-2008, 12:13 PM

'nuff said.

http://search.boston.com/local/Search.do?s.sm.query=yuppies&s.tab=globe&s.dateRange=&s.si%28simplesearchinput%29.sortBy=-articleprintpublicationdate

kennedy

12-01-2008, 01:31 PM

http://search.boston.com/local/Search.do?s.sm.query=yuppies&s.tab=globe&s.dateRange=&s.si%28simplesearchinput%29.sortBy=-articleprintpublicationdate

Alright, I've never heard the term yuppie used anywhere, ever.

PaulC

12-02-2008, 12:30 PM

I got this notice today:

Art Meet Culture--Artist Holiday Shops
From: Burbidge, Heidi <Heidi.Burbidge.bra@cityofboston.gov>
To: Burbidge, Heidi <Heidi.Burbidge.bra@cityofboston.gov>
Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2008 9:37 am

Attachment
Art_open_house_vertical.jpg
Join us for free food and wine at the opening event for four artist shops where Boston artists will be selling their handmade work, including jewelry, photography, painting, wearables like hats and scarves, notebooks, children's clothing, and lots of fun stuff. Great gift ideas--celebrate the season and Downtown Crossing! Other holiday related events will also be taking place: check out www.downtowncrossing.org/holidays.

The artist holiday shops are in Downtown Crossing at four locations within a couple blocks of each other: 608 Washington Street (by Chinatown T Stop), 505 Washington Street (across from Macy's), 439 Washington Street (across from Filene's building), and 34 Bromfield Street (next to the camera shop).

If you can't join us for the opening event, please be sure to visit the shops in Downtown Crossing and support the artists. The shops will be open Thursday- Saturday 11:00AM to 7:00PM, and Sunday 12:00-5:00PM. (439 Washington Street will be open Monday- Saturday 11AM-7:00PM and Sunday 12:00PM-5:00PM). You can stroll down on your lunch break or after work, or come by during the weekends until the end of December.

Thanks to the Boston Redevelopment Authority, the City of Boston, the Downtown Crossing Partnership, Northland Development, The Druker Company, Ivy Restaurant, Fajitas and Ritas and the Omni Parker House.

tobyjug

12-03-2008, 01:59 PM

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh109/tobyjug_2008/L1110146-1.jpg

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh109/tobyjug_2008/L1110150.jpg

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh109/tobyjug_2008/L1110140.jpg

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh109/tobyjug_2008/L1110164.jpg

statler

12-03-2008, 02:02 PM

No, no Toby. You need to get a shot of the wreaths on the construction fencing around the giant hole in the ground.

It's so...festive.

tobyjug

12-03-2008, 02:38 PM

Put water in the hole, let it freeze, and voila: Clark Rockefeller Center.

BarbaricManchurian

12-07-2008, 11:11 AM

Won't You Be My Neighbor?
Downtown Crossing is smack in the middle of the city. Its very location should make it the place where everybody wants to be. So why has it always felt like something was missing, and is that "something" about to finally turn it into a real, live neighborhood?

By Stephanie Schorow | December 7, 2008

At first, the cabdrivers would eye her incredulously and then, inevitably, ask the question: "Why the heck do you want to be dropped off with a bag of groceries in Downtown Crossing at midnight?" Well, Mary Ann Ponti would explain, she actually lived there, on Washington Street, just across from Macy's, adding, "Do you realize that people live there?"

Cabbies may not realize that people call Downtown Crossing home, but Ponti certainly does. In 2002, she moved into a condo converted from the offices of a former sheet-music business; she found that no other urban-feeling Boston neighborhood could give her as much space for such a competitive a price. She's not alone. Today, an estimated 6,000 residents and about 2,000 students live in the blocks around the public transportation epicenter of Summer, Winter, and Washington streets. Once the city's retailing heart, it is now a mixture of shops, offices, empty storefronts, and construction sites. And an estimated 1,500 new residents are expected if and when several construction projects are completed.

But for now, Downtown Crossing is a complicated district with a serious identity crisis. The area, from Boston Common to the Financial District and from the Old State House to the edge of Chinatown, remains a rundown shopping zone long past its glory days, even as it slowly transforms into a blossoming residential area. As old shops close, exciting new restaurants open. The blocks near the old Paramount Theatre and Opera House buzz and rumble with construction activity, even as some other major building projects stall. The streets off Washington are a jumble of retail and services, from soup kitchens to professional offices to souvenir shops. Old and new, upscale and ramshackle sit side by side; Million Dollar Mary's Smoke Shop operates across the street from luxury condos of the soon-to-open 45 Province development. All of which make the neighborhood like no other in Boston.

"I love the diversity of this neighborhood," Ponti, a vice president at the brokerage firm Sterne Agee & Leach, tells me in the quiet of her spacious one-bedroom condo. "I love being able to walk out the front door and get a feeling of what's happening in the city. There are a lot of nooks and crannies around here that have specialized stuff. You can catch a show at the Opera House. I love the fact I'm 60 seconds away from a Chanel counter."

Ponti's boosterism may startle those who have long given up on Downtown Crossing. Her enthusiasm may even spark snickers among cynics who say they've heard this talk of revitalization before; many times, in fact. Just 20 years ago, Downtown Crossing was the region's number one shopping area, according to the Boston Redevelopment Authority. By 1996, it was not even among the region's top 10. The construction of Copley Place, the Atrium Mall, CambridgeSide Galleria, and other suburban malls drained shoppers, and the once stalwart department-store model faltered. Efforts to slow the bleeding -- when there were efforts -- failed. "The last time the city did any planning in the district was in the late '70s and early '80s, when we created the Downtown Crossing brand and turned it into a pedestrian mall," Boston Redevelopment Authority senior planner Andrew Grace says. "It was really modeled on the success of Faneuil Hall, and one of the recommendations in the plan at the time was to create a mall to compete with the malls that were emerging in the suburbs. That was Lafayette Place."

Ah, Lafayette Place. Built with a fortress mentality on Avenue de Lafayette, the project was either a "nightmare" or a "disaster," depending on who you ask (it has since been completely remodeled). Then, an attempt in the late 1990s to launch a Business Improvement District, in which businesses were assessed money for joint projects, improvements, and marketing, also failed. Other efforts to woo back shoppers spooked by the increasingly empty storefronts sputtered and faltered. Meanwhile, the area grew grimmer and glummer; the purchase of Jordan Marsh by Macy's and the closing of Filene's seemed to hammer the last nail in the coffin. Finally, "we absolutely had to do something about downtown Boston," Grace says. "We needed to drive the bus, direct the change. The district was just too important to let fall by the wayside."

So the BRA has spent $800,000 developing yet another long-range plan for the district. In November 2007, the selection of former Boston city councilor Rosemarie Sansone as president of the Downtown Crossing Association (now Downtown Crossing Partnership) was viewed as an important step. Sansone is in the early stages of trying to launch a downtown Business Improvement District and "looking at other successful models in the country." In the meantime, committees of retailers, residents, and property owners are meeting weekly to discuss issues from homelessness to street cleaning to crime.

It hasn't come easily. Like Ponti, Sansone found she had some educating to do when she started her job. "People would look at me and say, 'People live here?' "

Not only do they live here, but those people, the longtime residents and the new ones, may just be the best hope to revive Downtown Crossing and transform it from merely a place where shoppers shop and workers work into a place where shoppers linger over lunch with their day's purchases, workers meet for dinner, and residents call out greetings to one another as they make a morning coffee run. No longer a business district but a neighborhood.

B

oston is a city of neighborhoods. Beware the outsider who confuses the South End with South Boston, the North End with Charlestown, or fails to differentiate between Roxbury and Dorchester. And it's the neighbors in those neighborhoods who take it on themselves to make sure their streets are clean, sidewalks repaired, graffiti removed, and lights fixed, among the myriad other things that make a neighborhood desirable.

All that and more is now being done with greater urgency in Downtown Crossing as part of the four-year-old Downtown Crossing Economic Improvement Initiative by the Boston Redevelopment Authority. The BRA is working with Sansone and a group of retailers, business owners, developers, and residents to, as Sansone says, "make this a destination again."

Private developers are pouring in a staggering amount of money: About $1.463 billion in projects are planned, including the $700 million One Franklin Street development on the site of the former Filene's. The project as originally conceived would have 39 stories, with a blend of residential units, hotel rooms, offices, parking, and lower-level shops, including Filene's Basement.

Yes, the "old" Basement, with bins, hand-painted signs, and the beloved automatic markdown, is scheduled to return, this time with three levels instead of two. Filene's Basement spokeswoman Pat Boudrot says the company plans to re-create treasured aspects of the discount institution in 120,000 square feet of space. ("Yeah!" is Ponti's reaction.)

And those are just a few of the changes coming. There is the completed update to One Boston Place office building at Washington and Court streets; 45 Province, with 138 units of luxury housing; the 550-seat Paramount Theatre restoration by Emerson College, which will create about 260 dormitory beds; Suffolk University's Modern Theatre restoration, with about 200 dorm beds; and a 28-floor development at One Bromfield Street, among others.

There is also the recent conversion of the long-empty 10 West Street into a Suffolk dormitory with 270 beds and retail space. There are new restaurants: Max & Dylans on West Street, the renovation of the venerable Marliave on Bosworth Street, the Bina Osteria restaurant and gourmet food shop on Washington by the owners of Lala Rokh, and plans by the owner of Ivy Restaurant for transforming the former Stoddard's cutlery building on Temple Place. A onetime police booth near the entrance to the Orange and Red lines has been transformed into an information kiosk, aiding residents as well as wayward tourists wandering over from the Freedom Trail on School Street. Signage rules have been toughened, and there are plans to eliminate curbs and raise the grade of a part of Washington Street to emphasize that pedestrians, not vehicles, have the right of way.

But Downtown Crossing momentum is not immune from the meltdown on Wall Street. Grace said in October that a 14-story residential and retail project on Hayward Place had been stalled due to financial jitters but that other projects were financed and proceeding; barely a week later, the key One Franklin project was put on hold for 90 days until financing was secured. The project may also be forced to scale back, a blow to those who say the building -- and the return of Filene's Basement -- is a linchpin in the revitalization of Downtown Crossing. If Downtown Crossing has one huge advantage over, say, the development of the South Boston Waterfront, it's that the latter still has to build up foot traffic before it can take off. That's one thing Downtown Crossing has, and then some. An estimated 230,000 people visit the area daily, and about 162,000 work within a 10-minute walk. There are ample, if pricey, parking garages. Yet, much to the frustration of Sansone and others, "for one reason or another, it's become a place where people pass through" but don't linger, she says.

Consultants hired by the BRA found that despite the high foot traffic, "people weren't slowing down, they weren't pausing, they were walking through." The challenge, says the BRA's deputy director, Randi Lathrop, became how to get more people to stop, shop, drink, meet. A branding campaign was launched to promote Downtown Crossing as the city's "meeting place" and a 24/7 neighborhood (even if most of the businesses do lock their doors by 9 p.m.)

A massive holiday program along this theme is being planned. A "holiday village" will be created on Summer Street, with live animals, a carousel, carolers, jazz bands, and Santa. A restaurant special event and an event for the area's 300 jewelry stores are being organized. A discount shopping pass will be available at downtowncrossing.org. A second "Home Sweet Home" tour this Saturday will showcase some of the nearly 4,000 downtown residences, ranging from luxury condos to converted lofts on Temple Place, and Washington, Avery, and Province streets. The first home tour attracted nearly 400 participants, from as far away as Rhode Island and Maine.

Like many residents, Mayor Tom Menino remembers visiting Downtown Crossing with his parents for the holidays, to shop and see the decorated windows at Jordan Marsh and Filene's. He remembers the Louisville Slugger baseball bats at the long-gone Raymond's for $3.99. Even as mayor, he remained a regular at Filene's Basement.

You don't need to be a consultant to see the diversity of people crossing Washington and Winter streets. Men in suits mingle with women in saris. Boys in baggy pants tease girls in tight jeans. On one corner, a Baptist hands out a pamphlet asking, "Who is He?" On another, an activist pleads: "Do you have a moment for gay rights?" A gaggle of street photographers often hangs out to snap candid shots. Police on horseback, bike, and foot patrol the streets. The glittering windows of the E.B. Horn jewelry store slow down some passersby; others stride quickly into Macy's, Eddie Bauer, T.J. Maxx, Marshalls, or one of the district's 525 retail businesses.

"One thing that's so special about Downtown Crossing, it is the face of Boston. Unlike Copley Place, unlike the Prudential Center, unlike Faneuil Hall," the BRA's Lathrop says. Sansone tells me: "It is one place in the morning. It is another place during the day. It is another place at night. It is even a different place on weekends. And, oh, by the way, it's a different world from the 21st floor up."

But can those different populations mingle without tension? Large groups of students who appear in the late afternoon often distress retailers and, some insist, intimidate shoppers. To discourage a rock- and hip-hop-loving crowd from loitering, classical music blares from the Corner Mall on Washington and Winter streets. Perceptions that the area is dangerous weren't helped by events of October 3, when two men were stabbed and shots fired there.

Boston Police Captain Bernard P. O'Rourke, commander of Area A-1, which includes Downtown Crossing, cited crime statistics from the blocks near Tremont, Boylston, Chauncy, Washington, Arch, and Court streets that show crime rates are, in his words, "very average" for the city, and in fact are actually low considering how many people pass through daily. For example, Downtown Crossing had 40 robberies, 42 aggravated assaults, and 512 larcenies recorded from January to November this year. A roughly equivalent area of Back Bay in the same period had 33 robberies, 41 aggravated assaults, and 670 larcenies.

"The large majority of those kids are causing nobody any undue concern other than the fact that they're in groups, they're a little loud, maybe a little vulgar," O'Rourke says. Ponti, the woman who lives on Washington Street, says she has never felt unsafe living there. "My final decision to buy the property was after I took a walk through here at night," she says, "because I knew I was going to have to walk my dog at night."

The problems, says Kenneth Gloss, who runs the Brattle Book Stop on West Street, are mostly about perception. It's not the kids who create a feeling of unease, he says. "The empty storefronts are more of a problem."A huge gash cuts through the heart OF Downtown Crossing: the deep hole of the One Franklin Street project. The historic facades of the Filene's building have been preserved but other walls have been ripped away, leaving the interiors exposed like skeletons. Just across the street is a former Barnes & Noble bookstore, its 37,000 square feet empty, its windows covered with peppy slogans from the city's branding campaign: "History Meet Future," "Push Meet Cart," "CEO Meet CFO," and "Spoon Meet Chowder."

The bright messages can't quite dispel the sense of a no-man's land. Nearby are the empty storefronts of Mattress Discounters and the closed grates of Fat Tony's and Kim's Menswear. In a doorway of a former CVS, a homeless man huddles with heaps of bedraggled possessions. "Space for Lease" signs seem as common as pigeons.

What the area needs in those empty spaces, residents and planners say, are more moderately priced sit-down restaurants, a home-goods store, and perhaps a grocer or dry cleaner. Not more cellphone stores, fast-food places, or pawnshops. But as in so many urban projects, there's a danger of driving out smaller unique shops or services. Planners insist the goal is not to strip Downtown Crossing of its gritty urban character. Streets need to be clean, but the area's 39 pushcarts will remain in some form, Sansone says. Stores should have "high quality" but not necessarily "high-end" goods. It is the ultimate balancing act.

"This area will never get gentrified per se," Menino tells me. "It will be a mixed use of retail and upscale. That's very important to us, because all of us can't go into the upscale area. Working people need moderate-income clothes or accessories." Although, he adds almost wistfully, "you're not going to have $3.99 bats at Raymond's anymore."

The One Franklin project is "the tipping point," says James Adler, who has run various pushcart businesses in Downtown Crossing for 24 years. "When that is completed, with all its beauty and its design shell, that will promote more business to come and set up shop. Right now, there are a lot of empty spaces. And that has to do with the economy and the fact that landlords are not lowering the rents."

Some of those empty storefronts will be filled temporarily when local artists are invited to sell wares there, rent-free, for the holidays.

What will make a permanent difference is having residents who care about their neighborhood. "If you have people out at night, living in the area, they care about how the lighting is," Gloss says. "They care about how the sidewalks look. They care about how the trash is put out. And the more people you have living here, be it students, be it actually [residents], that is a huge thing. They also vote."

Indeed, nowadays, Ponti finds, cabbies seem to know that people actually live in Downtown Crossing. And when she learned that Menino was in the area to film a Downtown Crossing holiday announcement, Ponti scurried into the street with a broom for a quick sweep. "This is," she explains as she rushes by, "my neighborhood."

Stephanie Schorow is a Boston-area writer and author of East of Boston: Notes From the Harbor Islands. E-mail her at sschorow@comcast.net.

http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/magazine/articles/2008/12/07/wont_you_be_my_neighbor/

KentXie

12-07-2008, 01:59 PM

I think if they are to build more residential towers here, they would need to build the office towers first and then have the residential towers go up at the same exact time, lest we get complaints such as shadows, blocked views, wind tunnel, and congestion.

kennedy

12-07-2008, 02:25 PM

Excuse me, but what views do you really get by being in DTX anyhow? You can't really see the common, there are already buildings behind you, and in front so you can't see the harbor or greenway or anything. Maybe the tops of the financial district buildings?

KentXie

12-07-2008, 05:33 PM

^^ I don't know. Ask the NIMBYs, they always seem to have something to complain about whether or not it makes any sense.

Lurker

12-07-2008, 06:00 PM

Why anyone can be expected to live or shop in an area where sloppy level as the Titanic listing in her death throes asphalt is considered an acceptable sidewalk material is beyond me.

ChitchIII

12-08-2008, 08:08 AM

Can somebody post the Current article on Page 20, written by State Representatives Bryon Rushing and Marty Walz (Creating a Livable Common Ground) its a great article about Downtown Density!!!!

What happend to make all these articles come out?

JimboJones

12-08-2008, 06:05 PM

Courant isn't online, so only way to get it here is to type it in manually ...

kz1000ps

12-08-2008, 07:11 PM

Downtown developments continue despite Filene’s stall

Boston Business Journal - by Denise Magnell
Friday, December 5, 2008

The recent halt to construction of Downtown Crossing’s redevelopment linchpin — the Filene’s project at One Franklin — could have reverberated up and down Washington Street. As it stands now, the project — the shell of the old department store towering over a fenced-in crater — has become an unlikely, bleak attraction for the tourists and shoppers that crowd the area.

But projects under construction and on the drawing boards for Boston’s shopping district seem to be on track in spite of developer John Hynes III’s decision to stop One Franklin construction while he lines up more financing.

Two major projects moving ahead in November include the 28-story One Bromfield complex at Washington and Bromfield streets, for which developers filed papers with the city to get the $200 million project rolling, and Suffolk University’s groundbreaking on its second downtown residence hall this year.

The unfolding of the Filene’s news came as the city unleashed a marketing campaign aimed at sparking interest in a revitalized Downtown Crossing — and in the midst of planning for the city’s first Business Improvement District.

“I don’t think we’re surprised that everyone’s thinking about it, because (the Filene’s project) is very much the focus of what is being done downtown,” said Rosemarie Sansone, president of the Downtown Crossing Partnership. “But we’re a team working on this neighborhood, and I haven’t heard of any project that is stopping because of it.”

Hynes has since told the Boston Redevelopment Authority he expects construction to resume soon after the new year, with a scaled-back residential piece of the mixed-use building to reduce its $700 million cost, said Randi Lathrop, BRA’s deputy director for community planning.

In the meantime, BRA is reviewing the One Bromfield tower, expected to break ground in 2010. Four smaller buildings will be taken down by New York-based Midwood Management Corp. to make way for 276 residential units with parking and retail space on lower floors.

“By that time, the financial market could change a great deal. Right now, one-third of the units in 45 Province have been sold, and considering this housing market, that’s terrific,” said Lathrop, referring to a luxury condo tower expected to open this spring.

Thousands of office workers and shoppers mix with an after-school crowd of urban teens who make up the estimated 230,000 people travelling daily through the shopping district.

In 1977, The Corner Mall, with retail shops and a food court, opened in the former Gilchrist’s department store, which — along with Jordan Marsh (now Macy’s) and Filene’s — once dominated the crossing of Washington Street with Winter and Summer streets.

Today, about 6,000 people live in the neighborhood, and BRA estimates that number could climb to 15,000 in the next decade. When Archstone Apartments opened last year, it added 420 rental units in Downtown Crossing.

City planners and business leaders still battle a negative perception of Downtown Crossing, stemming from decades of decline that led to an ever-changing scene of storefronts and “for lease” signs, a mismatched array of flags and canopies and sidewalks crowded with pushcarts. With stores keeping business hours, downtown became a daytime-only destination.

“A stigma has become attached to downtown that it’s not safe, a little crazy, and difficult to get in and out of,” said Michael Kebadjian, whose family-owned Kebadjian Bros. has operated its jewelry business at the Boston Jewelers Exchange Building for 52 years. “But once we have the right mix of infrastructure, parking and a clientele that wants better stores, that will draw a better clientele. It goes hand in hand.”

In conjunction with the Filene’s project, an improved streetscape will include an expanded pedestrian mall with kiosks and pushcarts lined up in the middle.

“We’re in transition. There’s a lot of work to do, but we’ve already done a lot of work. There are new businesses, new restaurants. There are new signage regulations so the buildings look like they belong to one area,” said Sansone.

Boston developer Ronald Druker, who also owns the Corner Mall and the Orpheum Theater, credits Mayor Thomas Menino and the BRA with “doing everything they can to promote the area. In spite of Filene’s being stalled, it’s still a solid, well-leased area.”

Lathrop said Downtown Crossing has a low vacancy rate, but some highly visible storefronts — such as the Barnes and Noble store that closed two years ago, and remains vacant — give a different impression.

“We have 525 businesses down there filling 1.3 million square feet of retail space,” she said.

Washington Street’s latest groundbreaking occurred recently when Suffolk University began renovating the former Modern Theatre into a dormitory and ground-floor theater and gallery space. Down the street, the former Paramount Theater is under construction by Emerson College for an $80 million student dormitory and cultural center.

Along with The Opera House, which opened to much fanfare in 2004 after a $38 million refurbishment, the theaters had been on the National Trust for Historic Preservation’s most endangered list as late as 1995.

At the opposite end of Washington Street, where it ends at Court Street across from Government Center, the Ames Hotel is planned at the long-vacant Ames Building, a historic landmark that was Boston’s first skyscraper when it opened in the 1890s. The $40 million renovation will create a 125-room boutique hotel with two restaurants when it opens next year.

The formation of a Business Improvement District will allow the city to charge business owners within Downtown Crossing “surcharges” for additional services such as sanitation and security beyond the normal city services.

Previous attempts to start an improvement district failed to get legislative approval, but by allowing property owners to “opt out” of the association if they choose, state approval isn’t needed.

“This time it will go through. There’s a real foundation through the planning effort, a different climate than before, and a lot of the property has changed hands since last time,” said Lathrop.

Link (http://www.bizjournals.com/albany/othercities/boston/stories/2008/12/08/focus6.html?b=1228712400^1742908&brthrs=1 )

choo

12-08-2008, 09:00 PM

I don't know about this, but what are the odds the developers here come back and say, we can continue construction sooner but we need to go a hundred feet taller to make it more profitable and get the financing? I'd wouldn't mind that scenario playing out.

jass

12-09-2008, 01:03 AM

Courant isn't online, so only way to get it here is to type it in manually ...

Do any of the databases have them? Lexisnexis for example?

ChitchIII

12-09-2008, 07:44 AM

Courant isn't online, so only way to get it here is to type it in manually ...

I know, but some of you guys have great color scanners. The scanner at my office sucks.

I'll see if I can type it up at some point.

JimboJones

12-09-2008, 02:50 PM

Ask Ted Flanders.

Lrfox

12-10-2008, 11:28 AM

Big Piece on DTX on Boston.com. Too big to post it all here, but here's the headline:

Won't You Be My Neighbor?
Downtown Crossing is smack in the middle of the city. Its very location should make it the place where everybody wants to be. So why has it always felt like something was missing, and is that "something" about to finally turn it into a real, live neighborhood?

link to the full story: http://www.boston.com/realestate/news/articles/2008/12/07/wont_you_be_my_neighbor/

Ron Newman

12-10-2008, 01:12 PM

That was already published, in the Sunday Globe magazine.

statler

12-10-2008, 01:20 PM

And 12 posts up.

tobyjug

12-12-2008, 03:34 PM

Another Holly Jolly Day in DTX...

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh109/tobyjug_2008/L1110175.jpg

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh109/tobyjug_2008/L1110178.jpg

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh109/tobyjug_2008/L1110181.jpg

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh109/tobyjug_2008/L1110182.jpg

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh109/tobyjug_2008/L1110184.jpg

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh109/tobyjug_2008/L1110194.jpg

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh109/tobyjug_2008/L1110196.jpg

Ron Newman

12-12-2008, 03:41 PM

I assume 505 is one of the temporary Christmas craft shops that turn up in various parts of the region during December. What is being built at Rogers Jewelers?

BosDevelop

12-12-2008, 03:42 PM

Is the last picture the block of winter street where there have been 7 different gyms in the last 5 years and where the old McDonalds location has been vacant for at least 3-4 years? That block is depressing.

tobyjug

12-12-2008, 04:40 PM

Ron: yes. As for the ex-Rogers Jewelry site, I can't tell what they are doing, if anything at all. The whole building is empty and decrepit.

BD: yes, there have been a number of gyms there, though at this point Winter has become Summer. The owner (the sign in the window may give a clue to his identity) is a philistine who milks this pathetic old structure, waiting for the day when the abutting Arch Street Church gets redeveloped into a high rise. I assume his strategy will be similar to Belkin, and that he believes ownership of this building gives him a foot in the door for the larger project. The Arch Street Church project was going to be a 40 story-ish office building, but vaporized during the last "once in a lifetime" economic collapse of the late 80's. At least they didn't dig the hole first.

statler

12-12-2008, 05:07 PM

The latest gym is still in that building, they seemed to have moved to the upper floor and their entrance is a single glass door on Arch St that used to serve as CVS' fire exit. Sad and strange.

tobyjug

12-12-2008, 05:24 PM

You have to negotiate the bum gauntlet and tip toe through the urine to get to it.

statler

12-12-2008, 05:49 PM

More exercise! It's all included in your membership! :)

BTW: I don't know how I missed this before, but it is sheer brilliance:

Put water in the hole, let it freeze, and voila: Clark Rockefeller Center.

kennedy

12-12-2008, 08:50 PM

I'm sure I agreed to that post already, but it's a damn good idea to waste time until spring.

Meadowhawk

12-13-2008, 09:55 AM

I honestly believe that come spring, what with Obama in office and the hope he brings, the banks letting loose some of the bailout money for development projects and with the small help of the Mayor's office with their loan initiative, things will start happening. This whole country, let alone Boston, needs a re-boot and I think it will happen. After all, what's the alternative?

vanshnookenraggen

12-13-2008, 02:10 PM

I am no where near as optimistic as you. These banks aren't lending the money that was given to them, they are using it to pay off their bad debts.

Think of it this way: You have a giant credit card bill and lose your job. Then someone gives you a whole bunch of money and says "Go out and spend this!" What do you do? You still have no job and a whole lotta debt. You probably try to pay off your credit card as much as possible.

kennedy

12-13-2008, 07:44 PM

One problem in your logic Van-banks aren't jobless. There are still 'good investments' out there, and they still get revenue. They needed the bailout because they had so many 'bad investments' that their revenue would no where near cover the costs of paying their debts. Now that the debt is on Sam's House, they can use their previous revenue to achieve a state where they can lend money-and hopefully, not make the same mistakes they did before.

Although, I am doubtful this will happen by the spring.

czsz

12-14-2008, 04:18 AM

Yes, there are good investments, but the only liquidity you can drown your sorrows in is in soup and gin companies.

Real estate, though, just doesn't taste as good right now as Campbell's.

tobyjug

12-26-2008, 08:42 PM

I'm usually skeptical about claims of the "terror" in DTX, but I must admit to being a little down today. We had yet another ritual Friday 4 pm shooting. This time the lead was flying by Temple and Washington. I was barely out the front door wandering over to the Brattle Bookstore for a weekend book, and nearly got rundown by all the cruisers and ambulances responding to the violence.

I say it without being facetious: you are safer at midnight in DTX than on any Friday afternoon. I wouldn't want to be one of the folks stuck riding the Silver Line with the troublemakers.

It will be interesting to see if it makes the papers. City Hall doesn't like this sort of press. The politicians must do better than holly wreaths and civil service Santas.

vanshnookenraggen

12-26-2008, 09:47 PM

So I got off the T at DTX today and holy shit did a bomb go off? Toby your pictures don't really express the largess of the demolition. It felt like Ground Zero. While I was taking pictures I over heard a number of people walking by talking about the tower and why there is a giant hole in the ground.

Ron Newman

12-26-2008, 10:46 PM

The section of Washington Street from Borders Books north to the Old State House is becoming really desolate. More storefronts are vacant than occupied, and one of the big occupied ones, FedEx-Kinko's, has a sign saying that it will close for good on December 31.

Ron Newman

12-26-2008, 11:05 PM

We had yet another ritual Friday 4 pm shooting. This time the lead was flying by Temple and Washington.

What happened? Did someone try to rob Macy's or one of the jewelry stores?

Lurker

12-27-2008, 10:05 AM

Teen hurt in shocking downtown shooting
By O’Ryan Johnson and Christine McConville | Saturday, December 27, 2008 | http://www.bostonherald.com | Local Coverage
Article URL: http://www.bostonherald.com/news/regional/view.bg?articleid=1141398

Downtown gunplay turned tourists and bargain-shoppers into crime witnesses during a shooting yesterday afternoon that sent a teenager to the hospital with a bullet wound to the hip and left the city’s busy tourist spot stunned by violence.

“A shooting in broad daylight? This is insane,” said Sean Kenney, 52, of Ireland, who brought his family to Boston for the holiday but vows never to return. “I’m just glad my wife and children are already at the hotel.”

Witnesses said a group of five to nine men in their late teens or early 20s were on the corner of Washington Street and Temple Place, when one pulled a gun and fired at the victim.

“(The shooter) couldn’t have been more than 3 feet away,” said a witness, who himself was no more than 20 feet from the shooting. “The guy stumbled across the street towards the sausage stand and fell down.”

At the time of the shooting, the shopping district was filled with people. There were bargain hunters from around the world and Bostonians making holiday returns. There were also several mother-and-daughter pairs leaving “The Nutcracker” at the nearby Opera House. As the shots echoed off downtown real estate, the group scattered, but two MBTA Transit Police spotted them fleeing and gave chase.

“There were four shots. It was bang, bang, bang, bang,” said a 61-year-old Boston woman who had hit the stores at the Corner Mall after she left her downtown office job. “There was a man running. He was well dressed. And he was being chased by a police officer with a pony tail. She was running with her gun drawn.”

The female transit officer chased two men down Washington Street toward City Hall, then veered left toward Boston Common and split up. A male transit cop chased three men down Temple Place toward Boston Common.

No one has yet been arrested for the shooting. Police superintendent Raphael Ruiz said the gunman was described as a dark-skinned, Hispanic male in his early 20s wearing a red cap and dark colored jacket.

tobyjug

12-27-2008, 11:03 AM

What happened? Did someone try to rob Macy's or one of the jewelry stores?

It is all about punks from somewhere else bringing their beefs to my neighborhood. Maybe that's the downside of living in a "crossing". And it is usually on a Friday. It is always 3:30 to 5 p.m., in "broad daylight" as the frightened Irish tourist observed. This is the sort of story you used to read about the South End 20 or 30 years ago before hipsters like Jimbo...er, Johnny A moved in.

Enjoying life in DTX is like enjoying Francois Villon. Either you do or you don't. But if I were a retailer, I wouldn't want to bet my living on the patronage of those who do.

alohadave

12-29-2008, 12:22 AM

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3049/3146699844_a6d34ea47a.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/alohadave/3146699844/ )

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3214/3145867201_d769271aed.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/alohadave/3145867201/ )

Boston02124

12-29-2008, 08:35 AM

It is all about punks from somewhere else bringing their beefs to my neighborhood. Maybe that's the downside of living in a "crossing". And it is usually on a Friday. It is always 3:30 to 5 p.m., in "broad daylight" as the frightened Irish tourist observed. This is the sort of story you used to read about the South End 20 or 30 years ago before hipsters like Jimbo...er, Johnny A moved in.

Enjoying life in DTX is like enjoying Francois Villon. Either you do or you don't. But if I were a retailer, I wouldn't want to bet my living on the patronage of those who do.^ sort of like living in Dot

JoeGallows

12-29-2008, 10:23 AM

Well, there may be some glimmer of hope for the old McDonald's space, as when I walked by this morning, workers were tossing all the old McDonald's food equipment into a dumpster on the street.

Lurker

12-29-2008, 10:43 AM

"Violence rises in Hub shopping area
Crossing into gangland
By Jessica Van Sack / The Beat | Monday, December 29, 2008 | http://www.bostonherald.com | Local Coverage

As Mayor Thomas M. Menino eyes ambitious plans to revitalize Downtown Crossing, cops on the ground say they’re seeing more gangbangers gravitate toward the hapless tourist and shopping haven, where a brazen daylight shooting sent tourists and shoppers ducking for cover Friday afternoon.

“We’re seeing more and more gang kids here,” one law enforcement source said. “For them, this area is like an oasis.”

In front of Macy’s on Friday, crowds of bargain-hunters instead got bloodshed as a hail of gunfire rang out and a 19-year-old male took a bullet to the leg. The frightening scene featured MBTA Transit cops with their guns furiously chasing after two suspects who bolted from the swarm.

“Downtown Crossing has done very well this holiday shopping season,” said Dot Joyce, Menino’s spokeswoman. “We hope this one incident doesn’t deter them from shopping there in the future.”

Yet this wasn’t an isolated incident. Gangbangers who traverse the area also turned violent Oct. 3, when a man opened fire on a crowd of rivals near Bromfield Street. No one was hit, but amid the wild melee, two men were stabbed. Cops at the time were looking for six teens.

Like Friday’s shooting, the violence broke out on a weekday shortly before rush hour. Days later, Boston Police Superintendent Daniel Linskey called together a full-court press of transit cops, school police and youth workers to brainstorm ways to tackle youth violence in Downtown Crossing.

Rosemarie Sansone, a former city councilor who now heads the Downtown Crossing Partnership, said her organization is meeting with cops this week to discuss the recent violence.

“Public safety is our number one concern,” she said.

Linskey disagreed yesterday that the area is falling prey to gang violence. He did acknowledge deploying more specialized units to the area. Their presence was on full display yesterday as bicycle cops patrolled bustling Washington Street.

Downtown Crossing has long been the grittiest downtown enclave, but local merchants say the blight resulting from the closure of Filene’s seems to have coincided with the area’s increased attractiveness to gangbangers, truants and drug dealers alike.

“There’s more drug dealers on the street,” said 18-year sausage vendor Gabriele Ruiz. “At the same time, there’s more police.”

Al Rackard, a security guard at the Corner Mall, calls the cops every day, he said, mostly on youth who loiter, fight or shoplift.

“I guess it’s now the place to hang,” he said. “This is the crossroads for everyone who’s trying to get away from somebody.”
Article URL: http://www.bostonherald.com/news/regional/view.bg?articleid=1141762 "

Ron Newman

12-29-2008, 11:10 AM

Which McDonalds space? The one in the jewelers' building?

statler

12-29-2008, 11:18 AM

Which McDonalds space? The one in the jewelers' building?
I assume he means the one in the old CVS building on Summer St. The McD's in the Jeweler's building is still in operation.

Ron Newman

12-29-2008, 01:07 PM

The Jeweler's Building McDonald's closed for several months of substantial remodeling, then reopened. Could the Summer Street one be undergoing the same process?

tobyjug

12-29-2008, 02:48 PM

Just chuckling reading Lurker's post. I was maybe 100 feet away when each incident cited in the story occurred. My 3rd photo in post #698 shows the police quelling a knife fight.

There has been a heightened police presence since the October shooting. But maybe they need more "barbershoppers" and "oompa" bands playing crap music to drive people away.

Ron Newman

12-29-2008, 02:50 PM

Classical music is often recommended (and sometimes used) to try to drive away an undesired demographic/age group.

statler

12-29-2008, 02:56 PM

They have been playing classical music out of the Corner Mall for a few years now. Maybe the kids are acquiring a taste for it?

tobyjug

12-29-2008, 03:00 PM

They have been playing classical music out of the Corner Mall for a few years now. Maybe the kids are acquiring a taste for it?

Memo to Drucker: more Debussy, less Wagner.

PaulC

12-29-2008, 03:13 PM

I attended a presentation by Druker a few years back where he referred to the Corner Mall as being something like a 'dissapointment'. I think it's time to return it to store front use only.

Ron Newman

12-29-2008, 03:29 PM

The loud 1970s decor scheme doesn't help. The logo appears to have been adapted from the Pac Man video game of the time.

statler

12-29-2008, 03:41 PM

I tell visitors it is a new retro 80's design. Very hip.

Lurker

12-29-2008, 03:48 PM

They have been playing classical music out of the Corner Mall for a few years now. Maybe the kids are acquiring a taste for it?

Kubrick's rendition of "A Clockwork Orange" comes to mind.

Beton Brut

12-29-2008, 04:18 PM

Classical music is often recommended (and sometimes used) to try to drive away an undesired demographic/age group.

Am I alone in being bummed out by this? Talk about cynicism (I don't mean you, Ron, but the concept)...

Kubrick's rendition of "A Clockwork Orange" comes to mind.

There was me, that is Alex, and my three droogs...

tobyjug

12-29-2008, 05:15 PM

^^^^ You malchicks checking out the devotchkas again?

Beton Brut

12-29-2008, 05:34 PM

Ya know, Toby, I read the book (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Clockwork_Orange ) (the American edition (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Clockwork_Orange#Omission_of_the_final_chapter )) when I was a young Nadsat (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nadsat ).

It inspired my interest in, among other things, the late string quartets of Beethoven (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/String_Quartets_Nos._12_-_16_and_Grosse_Fuge,_Opus_127,_130_-_135_(Beethoven) ).

To co-opt a classic post (http://www.archboston.org/community/showpost.php?p=54490&postcount=17 ) by Ron, kids today "need to read better books."

Suffolk 83

12-30-2008, 12:01 AM

My apologies if this has already been brought up before... but has anyone seen the DTX commercial on TV? I also noticed the billboard/sign on the Ames? building scafolding, not sure how long thats been there. The commercial is kinda a laugher

Suffolk 83

12-30-2008, 12:08 AM

Maybe Eminem needs to recheck the city with his "mean streets of Boston"comment... but no seriously, The area is marginal, which I really don't care about as long as I don't personally and constantly feel in danger... But the liquor store down on Wash is still ridiculously expensive!!! WTF mate? Aren't liquor stores in the "ghetto" cheap?

To me this goes hand and hand with the scene in front of the St. Francis house when they give out food. Times are tough and I feel for some of these people and violence seems to be the natural progression.

Ron Newman

12-30-2008, 07:38 AM

Haven't seen the commercial, no. Is it on YouTube or any other video site?

JohnAKeith

12-30-2008, 10:06 AM

How about Bob Seger with his "blue blood streets of Boston"?

atlrvr

12-30-2008, 11:17 AM

I miss http://bovination.com/images/jimboJones.jpg

underground

01-05-2009, 01:20 PM

Eesh! Not to make light of anyone getting shot at, but ask the residents of Roxbury or Mattapan if they consider a neighborhood with two (that's right, two) shootings to be a "gang land." I think a little perspective's in order for who ever wrote that article. That being said, watch out Toby!

kennedy

01-05-2009, 09:03 PM

I was in DTX about a week ago...maybe just because it was around Christmas, but it is for sure not the ghetto.

commuter guy

01-05-2009, 09:09 PM

^
Good point, its all relative. It could be worse, for example, at its peak, the Robert Taylor Homes Projects on the south side of Chicago had 300 separate shooting incidents over one weekend. See link:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Taylor_Homes

That being said, it can't hurt Downtown Crossing to have some extra law enforcement attention to keep a lid on crime. I frequently walk through the area and always without any apprehension whatsoever. If it gets as bad as the Robert Taylor Homes, I think my survival instinct would kick in and you would find me sticking to the Back Bay or Cambridge.

Ron Newman

01-05-2009, 11:12 PM

What keeps people away from Downtown Crossing isn't fear of being shot or stabbed, but simple annoyance at being surrounded by drunks and beggars. The more vacant storefronts there are, the more such annoyances proliferate.

tobyjug

01-05-2009, 11:29 PM

I agree with Ron, but feel I ought to stick up for the drunks. As to the beggar population, it is up, drawn by the Arch St. Church soup kitchen, St. Joseph's House, and a soup kitchen on Kingston St. The BHA Section 8 program draws a more upscale crowd on Hawley St.

In times of economic stress, these institutions get busier. You could build 80 stories of two million dollar studios surmounting Nordstrom, Bloomingdale's and Needless Markup on the Filenes site, and you would have the same number of beggars. (Come on over to Avery Street if you don't believe me.) If you choose to ghettoize the delivery of social services, you will have a concentration of the needy.

commuter guy

01-06-2009, 03:20 PM

Tobyjug,

I've never heard of the St. Joseph's house. Where is that located? You mentioned Avery Street which reminds me that in addition to the social service facilities you mentioned there are at least two more additional large homeless shelters which bookend Downtown Crossing. The St. Francis shelter in the midst of the Millenium Tower/Ritz Complex and the Veterans Shelter on Court St on the other end of Downtown Crossing.

As for vacancies, Ron, I think that has much to do with extremely high asking rents. The foot traffic counts are incredible from a retailers point of view. If the rent was reasonable and space adequate, I would expect many retailers would locate in Downtown Crossing.

For example, I noticed something the other day on Bromfield St. Nearly all the vacancies on that street are in Druker managed buildings. Retail spaces managed by other landlords are nearly all occupied by mom and pop local type stores. Maybe the asking rents are too high at the Druker owned buildings?

Ron Newman

01-06-2009, 03:32 PM

Vacant storefronts don't bring in any money. Why would a landlord prefer an empty store instead of lowering the rent?

The vacancies are most noticeable in the northern couple of blocks of Washington, from School St. to State St. FedEx-Kinko's just closed last week, and that's a large and prominent storefront. That "New York Men's Suits" place is gone, too.

statler

01-06-2009, 03:39 PM

^^ I don't know, but I'm assuming they sign retailers to fairly long term leases, so there is probably some complex math formula that shows it is more profitable to hold out for a higher rent than sign a lower one. Just a guess.

commuter guy

01-06-2009, 04:05 PM

I would imagine many landlords, especially those on Washington Street, are holding out for more credit worthy chain stores. They or their property managers hate chasing rents every month from the local mom and pop businesses. Bromfield street is a off the beaten track retail-wise so I would think landlords would be more flexible in entering into leases with tenants.

Ron Newman

01-06-2009, 04:11 PM

And yet what the vacancies say is "the rent is too high for the chains you want to attract". Not to mention, is any chain expanding right now?

tobyjug

01-06-2009, 05:37 PM

CG: you are right. I was mixing my Saints when I should have been mixing my drinks. St. Francis it is. Woof. Patron saint of animals.

As to the "New York Suit Store", I'm surprised it lasted this long. It promised discount Canali, Corneliani, Pal Zileri. It delivered Jones, Lauren, Jack Victor. Nothing wrong with midrange, but certainly not at the prices on offer. You would get better deals on better stuff at the Back Bay Marshalls or the F.B. in Newton.

czsz

01-06-2009, 05:50 PM

No landlord is going to admit defeat and willingly lower the gates for the rabble to occupy their space so willingly. It will take at least another fiscal year of recession before they ponder lower-end tenants (assuming there are any that can get financing to start new stores at that point).

archBOSTON.org > Boston's Built Environment > New Development > Downtown Crossing

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statler

01-07-2009, 07:25 AM

Well Toby, looks like you are going to be getting some new neighbors. Hope you have the Welcome Wagon ready.

Boston Herald - January 7, 2009
Housing eyed for Downtown Crossing office building
By Thomas Grillo | Wednesday, January 7, 2009 | http://www.bostonherald.com | Business & Markets

While residential projects stall due to the financial crunch, one developer is bullish on converting a Downtown Crossing office building into apartments.

“This will be the only moderately priced rental building in the downtown,” said Harold Brown, chairman of the Hamilton Co., the Allston-based landlord who owns more than 2,300 units in Greater Boston.

Brown intends to transform the 12-story mid-rise at the corner of Winter and Washington streets into 51 apartments. In a shopping district where a 550-square-foot luxury studio apartment at the Archstone Boston Common on lower Washington fetches $2,855 and rents at the nearby Devonshire range from $2,200 to $4,300, Brown will offer one-bedrooms for $1,750 and two-bedrooms from $2,200.

“We bought the building a long time ago, so we don’t need the big rents to make the numbers work,” said Brown who paid $6.5 million for the property in 1982.

The news of apartments for Downtown Crossing comes on the heels of a decision by John B. Hynes to jettison plans for condominiums at One Franklin, the planned redevelopment of Filene’s, because he was unable to to secure financing amid a global credit crunch.

Rosemarie Sansone, president of the Downtown Crossing Partnership, hailed Brown’s decision as good news for the area. “This is tremendous,” she said. “As Suffolk University attracts new faculty and graduate students from out of town, think of the convenience.”

A recent report by Jones Lang LaSalle, a global commercial real estate firm, found that the vacancy rate for downtown Boston apartments has been steady in the low 4 percent range. The average asking rent is $2,200.

Brown expects to start work on the $18.5 million renovation on Winter Street by late summer.

“We will have no problem getting financing,” he said.
Article URL: http://www.bostonherald.com/business/general/view.bg?articleid=1143618

Ron Newman

01-07-2009, 09:54 AM

This is the SW corner of Winter and Washington (So Good Jewelry), not the NW corner (The Corner Mall), right?

underground

01-07-2009, 10:13 AM

A one-bedrooms for $1,750 and a two-bedrooms from $2,200 might be considered a moderate price for that area (I think it definitly is), but that's hardly "moderate" for the entire city of Boston. Ouch!

Oh well, I guess you can't complain too much when someone's doing something right for a change, ie. expanding rental housing downtown. I just wonder what these units are going to end up looking like.

BosDevelop

01-07-2009, 04:14 PM

For example, I noticed something the other day on Bromfield St. Nearly all the vacancies on that street are in Druker managed buildings. Retail spaces managed by other landlords are nearly all occupied by mom and pop local type stores. Maybe the asking rents are too high at the Druker owned buildings?

some of these Druker vacancies on Bromfield St. have been sitting vacant since I started law school at Suffolk next door in 1998!!! (well, to be completely accurate, 1999, was the first year of Suffolk's new law school building on Tremont and Bromfield). Yes, some stores have been vacant for 11 years. Something is not right when the same storefronts have been sitting vacant for more than a decade.

tobyjug

01-07-2009, 07:41 PM

This is the SW corner of Winter and Washington (So Good Jewelry), not the NW corner (The Corner Mall), right?

I just went to the basement to get the digital camera out of the car so I could post some pictures of this building. The car battery is dead. The camera is in the trunk. The trunk is opened by an electic button. The car battery is in the trunk. There is no pull lever or cable in sight. The owner's manual is in the trunk too. Oh well.

Lurker

01-07-2009, 08:38 PM

If you have fold down rear seats, that usually helps in emergency access to the trunk.

tobyjug

01-07-2009, 08:44 PM

I hate pulling seats out because it takes me months to get around to putting them back! Off to Wiki Answers I went. So cool. Got the trunk open and my camera, no chainsaw, no handgun, no fuss. Pictures tomorrow!

Ron Newman

01-07-2009, 08:46 PM

In any event, am I right that it's the So Good building and not the Corner Mall (Gilchrist)?

tobyjug

01-07-2009, 08:49 PM

I do not believe it is the Corner Mall. Druker has a big fat office tenant on the upper floors...the Commonwealth! (DEP, DALA, etc.)

JohnAKeith

01-07-2009, 09:50 PM

Ron, from what I can tell, the address is 6 Winter Street / 447 Washington Street and yes, the corner that's NOT the Corner Mall. 447 Washington is the building next to the "Dexter/Ditson" condo buliding, I believe (although it looks as though Mr. Ditson owned 447 Washington Street, at one time).

tobyjug

01-08-2009, 12:59 PM

Views of 443 Washington /8 Winter; final shot of Ditson Building next door.

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh109/tobyjug_2008/L1110398.jpg

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh109/tobyjug_2008/L1110403.jpg

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh109/tobyjug_2008/L1110404.jpg

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh109/tobyjug_2008/L1110406.jpg

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh109/tobyjug_2008/L1110405.jpg

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh109/tobyjug_2008/L1110400.jpg

JohnAKeith

01-08-2009, 01:25 PM

So do you think they added two floors to 447 Washington at some point?

Lurker

01-08-2009, 01:51 PM

No it was the first tower of that height in the block. Remember that these buildings were built before fat [flat?] floor plates and massive merging of parcels was all the rage.
http://img291.imageshack.us/img291/2140/001389di1.th.jpg (http://img291.imageshack.us/my.php?image=001389di1.jpg)

Residential conversion of these office spaces will go a long way in bringing 24 hour activity to the area.

tobyjug

01-09-2009, 05:32 PM

Is the worst building in Boston located on Winter Street?

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh109/tobyjug_2008/L1110438.jpg

These other Winter Street buildings are nice.

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh109/tobyjug_2008/L1110430.jpg

They could use some sympathetic owners, though.

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh109/tobyjug_2008/L1110436.jpg

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh109/tobyjug_2008/L1110433.jpg

No one is getting shot, and people are happy.

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh109/tobyjug_2008/L1110427.jpg

A good day for everyone!

Lurker

01-09-2009, 05:43 PM

Toby, between the Provident Institution for Savings Building, where Sovereign Bank is now, and alley between the blocks next to it, is a rather terrible mural that is often missed in photography.

The later stretch, where Gamestop appears to be moving in, looks much better than it did a year or two ago with rebuilt ground levels and upper windows stripped of multi-story signage.

tobyjug

01-09-2009, 05:49 PM

Ah, the alley. The MCLE Building at the end runs through to Temple St. It is full of auditoria, offices and law books for sale. Locke Ober's interior is nice on the first floor, but the upstairs dining areas are nothing special. The exterior is ok, and probably seemed much nicer before P.I.S. swamped it.

Lurker

01-09-2009, 07:25 PM

http://img522.imageshack.us/img522/621/l1110433copyvw9.th.png (http://img522.imageshack.us/my.php?image=l1110433copyvw9.png)

Toby, sorry I meant the other little alley. It's very easy to miss.

kz1000ps

01-11-2009, 05:50 PM

Tobyjug said: Is the worst building in Boston located on Winter Street?

I say quite possibly. But its small scale keeps it off most everyone's radar.

http://img364.imageshack.us/img364/8312/img4651jk3.jpg

And a shitty shot of the mural Lurker mentioned:

http://img364.imageshack.us/img364/4700/img4652ds4.jpg

kz1000ps

01-11-2009, 05:57 PM

And here's a set showing the vacancies on upper Washington.

east side:

http://img158.imageshack.us/img158/79/img4659ee7.jpg

http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/4996/img4661uc6.jpg

west side:

http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/9681/img4657vh6.jpg

http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/1290/img4660uk3.jpg

Suffolk 83

01-11-2009, 06:13 PM

I've had the same opinion that the sovereign bank is one of the ugliest buildings I've ever seen. The bank's lobby does have this erie Orwellian/Total Recall feel to it. pretty creepy, so creepy that it's almost cool

AdamBC

01-11-2009, 11:59 PM

I've always been of two minds of the Soverign building. It's pretty ugly, but it's the right height. The former Mattress shop next door is attractive but way too short. Just can't win.

kz1000ps

01-26-2009, 08:28 PM

Downtown Crossing still at crossroads

Boston Business Journal - by Michelle Hillman
Friday, January 23, 2009

Downtown Crossing has been hit with a one-two punch that has brought the district to its knees.

The first blow came when the developers of the centerpiece of the shopping area — the Filene’s project — were forced to stop mid-construction due to a lack of financing. At the same time the tightened credit market left the district with a gaping hole in the ground, the economy went into a tailspin causing retailers to pull back on new stores.

The net effect has been an increase in empty storefronts and a deterioration of what for years has been a promising area on the cusp of rejuvenation.

Retailers like Michael Finn, the owner of The E.B. Horn Co., which has been in business since 1839, said he believes the Filene’s project and the souring economy have contributed to the increase in empty storefronts in the last few months. Next door to Finn’s historic jewelry shop is an empty storefront vacated by the Casual Male Big & Tall store a few months ago.

While Finn acknowledged stores are leaving the district, he is still hopeful the Filene’s project will regain momentum and Downtown Crossing will make a comeback.

“We have to just weather the storm,” Finn said.

Aside from the bombed-out appearance of the Filene’s building, retailers, real estate brokers and city officials say landlords holding out for the highest rent have contributed to the prolonged vacancy of retail storefronts.

“A lot of the property owners have really held firm to try to get those rents,” said Randi Lathrop, deputy director of community planning at the Boston Redevelopment Authority.

Lathrop and the city are working to entice landlords to spruce up empty storefronts and allow artists to temporarily use the space.

There are sections of Washington Street, which runs through Downtown Crossing, where empty storefronts are clustered together. Many of the windows have been dark for years. Near the area bounded by Washington, Water and Devonshire streets, there are empty storefronts side by side at 260 and 262 Washington St. and 278 Washington St. where the Chocolate Dipper previously operated.

Just a few doors down, at 252 Washington St., the FedEx/Kinkos store has a sign posted in the window stating the location has closed. And across the street, the former location of CVS is empty as is the ground floor retail and mezzanine space at One Boston Place. CVS relocated to a new location further down Washington. There are two other dark stores steps away from the former CVS location where signs for the former occupants VitalDent and a T-Mobile Custom Wireless can be seen through dingy windows.

Joe Pierik, a real estate broker with the Boston office of Newmark Knight Frank who is handling the leasing at 260 and 262 Washington St. and One Boston Place, said there is interest from retailers on all of the spaces. Pierik said no leases have been signed but he believes he’s close.

“There is interest but obviously because of the general economy things have slowed down,” said Kambiz Shahbazi, president of KS Partners LLC and the owner of several of the storefronts on Washington Street that Pierik is leasing. “Certainly the current status with the One Franklin (project) really hasn’t helped with the morale, the look of the street.”

Retailers who have looked to relocate stores into the district, like Karen Hohler, the owner of Whippoorwill curio shop on Franklin Street in the Financial District, said landlords were unwilling to compromise on rents. Hohler said she considered moving the store to Downtown Crossing but the rents (between $95 per square foot and $139 per square foot) were well above what she could afford.

In a severe economic downturn that is forcing businesses like hers to move to the internet, Hohler is perplexed as to why landlords won’t bend.

Storefronts, such as the former location of Barnes & Noble, have been vacant for years.

It’s hard to tell whether storefronts are empty due to over-reaching landlords or if retailers are tightening their belts and canceling expansion plans. It may be a little of both according to Karen Diamond, manager of the Eddie Bauer Outlet at 500 Washington St. On the other side of the street, Diamond looks out at a row of vacant stores.

Diamond, who has worked in Downtown Crossing for 25 years and for 10 years at Eddie Bauer, said she’s never seen as much vacancy as now.

“I think the problem right now is they don’t know what’s happening to the Filene’s building,” she said. “Who’s going to rent down here if they don’t know what’s happening with the Filene’s situation up in the air.”

Link (http://www.bizjournals.com/albany/othercities/boston/stories/2009/01/26/story4.html?b=1232946000^1766214 )

ablarc

01-26-2009, 09:26 PM

A downward spiral that started in the Sixties.

Idiotic canopies, mallification, renaming, loss of department stores, the tearing down of Jordan Marsh, traffic closing, vacant lots, teenagers, the closing of Sack's cinemas, the loss of the Combat Zone, "decorative" paving, and now the stalling of Filene's: nothing helped, and most things hurt.

garbribre

01-26-2009, 09:55 PM

Big picture--the Filene's delay really shouldn't be blamed as the lynchpin of the decline. If it is, this area is in worse shape than it seems. It was always a bit dowdy during my lifetime. Vibrant and dowdy can go hand in hand. It worked for a few decades.

I will stand by my previous rant in the Filene's thread that residential should be a component for every project planned along the Washington Street corridor and the adjacent blocks. IMHO, the future need for conventional, commercial, 20th Century retail as we know it will only diminish more. Services for residents--restaurants, a grocery store, a dry goods store, basic entertainment to start with--are most needed and will help fill some of the empty retail fronts. Add a few bars, clubs for the locals to occupy the rest, then those people who are not regulars or residents will be drawn to rediscover the area.

(This resurgence will last maybe a few decades and we will be revisting this discussion again; you know it!)

statler

01-28-2009, 07:50 AM

Neighbors: Fix-ings are in for Sal’s Pizza in Suffolk space
Pizza fight on Common
By Thomas Grillo | Wednesday, January 28, 2009 | http://www.bostonherald.com | Business & Markets

A food fight is brewing in Downtown Crossing and some neighbors say Mayor Thomas M. Menino is throwing his weight around so a favored pizza joint will win.

Suffolk University wants to rent space at 151 Tremont St. to Sal’s Pizza, but some neighboring condominium owners oppose the plan.

“We’ve fought to make this a neighborhood,” said George Coorssen, a Tremont on the Common resident since 1973. “A fast-food takeout joint on our block will attract undesirables and turn it into Kenmore Square.”

At issue is a vacant 600-square-foot shop on the ground level of a Suffolk dorm.

Condo owners next door, who would prefer a more upscale shop, say the Menino administration wants Sal Lupoli in the space, but Menino denied any deals have been made.

“I have not promised Sal the Suffolk location,” he said. “Sal wants a Boston location and that’s one of the places we thought would be a good spot for his restaurant.”

Some Tremont on the Common owners insist the fix is in because Harry Collings, the former executive secretary of the Boston Redevelopment Authority, set up a meeting between the pizza maker and residents in an effort to convince them to accept the eatery.

“No one knows why, but it’s a done deal to get Sal’s into that location,” said Sam Ditzion, a Tremont on the Common resident.

Since 2007, Lupoli’s family has contributed $4,000 to the Menino campaign, according to the state Office of Campaign and Political Finance.

Collings did not return a call seeking comment.

Susan Elsbree, a BRA spokeswoman, said Collings routinely works with potential tenants as part of the city’s retail initiative to fill a variety of empty spaces in Downtown Crossing.

John Nucci, Suffolk’s vice president of external affairs, said no deal has been signed and the school has not been pressured by City Hall.

“The BRA does everything it can to encourage business development where there are vacant storefronts and that’s completely above board,” he said. “We do know that the worst thing for a neighborhood is a vacant storefront.”
Article URL: http://www.bostonherald.com/business/general/view.bg?articleid=1148271.

statler

01-28-2009, 07:58 AM

“A fast-food takeout joint on our block will attract undesirables and turn it into Kenmore Square.”

Yes, because we wouldn't want undesirables in Downtown Crossing. Do these people ever leave their condos?

Ron Newman

01-28-2009, 07:59 AM

It's a student neighborhood, with not just Suffolk but also Emerson. Why shouldn't it have fast food, especially locally-owned fast food?

Tremont on the Common is a worthless building that should be demolished. Any complaints from residents there about anything should be ignored.

underground

01-28-2009, 09:15 AM

Wow! It only takes one pizza place to make a new Kenmore Square? This guy's a planning genious. Sign him up for the BRA.

atlrvr

01-28-2009, 09:17 AM

^ That's a bit harsh...because they have poor taste in architecture their opinions are worthless?

Still, I take issue that pizza doesn't make a neighborhood. I personally visited Pizza-Pie-er much more frequently than say the Nike store, which are roughly equidistant from my home. In my neighborhood, I'm much more concerned about having retail that will benefit me on a regular basis.....pizza, chinese food, coffee, booze, groceries, etc than I am in some retail shop that I may visit a couple times a year.

statler

01-28-2009, 09:22 AM

^^ You are clearly one of the undesirables they don't want in their neighborhood.

CDubs

01-28-2009, 09:24 AM

It's a student neighborhood, with not just Suffolk but also Emerson. Why shouldn't it have fast food, especially locally-owned fast food?

So true! And "fast food" is a misrepresentation of what Sal's is. It's a local pizza/sub joint, more of which would help to make DTX a great place again.

underground

01-28-2009, 09:52 AM

^ That's a bit harsh...because they have poor taste in architecture their opinions are worthless?
I'm not commenting on the architecture. I'm commenting on the fact that the guy seems to think a lone pizza place could single handedly cause the demize of an entire neighborhood.

Ron Newman

01-28-2009, 10:35 AM

kennedy

01-28-2009, 11:22 AM

I absolutely laughed my ass off reading that article. First of all, they don't want undesirables in their neighborhood....what? A pizza place brings undesirables? I could understand if they were trying to put in like, a Heroin-r-Us, but it's a pizza joint! In a college neighborhood, in a college town!!! Second, I wonder how much Sal put in Mumbles' pocket, because I'm kind of having trouble accepting that the Mayor is fighting people who want "upscale retail" over a local pizza place. Man, that really got my morning started right!

InTheHood

01-28-2009, 02:35 PM

I'm with Ron on this one. It would advance the cause of urbanism if we could implode Tremont-on-Common. Failing that, it's too bad that the BRA can't slap a U designation on the condo board and start over. An out-of-proportion, poorly massed condo board president constructed of pre-fab brick panels would presumably at least be mute, and therefore a distinct improvement.

Those of you who have been in Boston for a while will recall that this same NIMBY board worked like the devil - all the way to lawsuits - to try to block the renovation of the Opera House a few years back. They were cheesed about the narrowing of Mason Street to create a workable stage size ... the ostensible reason was to maintain the integrity of the street, the real reason was because residents of ToC liked to park there, illegally, and the narrowing of the street eliminated this. And of course, the fact of the matter was that Mason Street had been rendered into a dark alley long before by the construction of ... you guessed it, ToC, that pinnacle of sympathetic '60s streetscape.

Similar issues govern the uses of the retail spaces in the building ... ever wonder why the "highest and best use" of prime space across from the Common is H&R Block? Review the priorities of the condo board (quiet, no fuss, no risk of trash, etc.) and you have the answer. It irritates me that the papers give these clowns a soapbox when they should be beaten about the head and ears with a Jane Jacobs hardcover and then frog-marched off to Hingham where they belong.

BosDevelop

01-28-2009, 04:09 PM

Isn't there a McDonald's up Tremont Street less than 100 yards from Tremont on the Common? And isn't there a Dunkin Doughnuts and Starbucks 100 yards in the other direction down Tremont? I fail to see how the addition of a pizza place on the ground floor of a DORM will attract any more undesirables.

kennedy

01-28-2009, 04:27 PM

And a Burger King, next to the McDonald's.

tobyjug

01-28-2009, 04:49 PM

Tremont-on-the-Common is the primary source of blight on Tremont Street. The city should actively encourage its residents to relocate elsewhere so that it can be demolished and replaced with something better.

I agree, but that boat sailed years ago when the building went condo. The acquisition costs would be a nightmare. When you see photos of the Bulfinch row houses that were once there makes you want to cry.

Beton Brut

01-28-2009, 04:51 PM

Didn't Ron Druker's daddy build this stink-bomb?

Lurker

01-28-2009, 05:33 PM

Druker was a consultant on the committee which established "Downtown Crossing" as a brand name and provided many of the anti-urbanist suggestions which helped kill the district in the late 70s.

ToC needs an appointment with a wrecking ball. Lafayette Place also BADLY need to be demolished. The cross streets reconnecting Washington to Bedford and Kingston Streets, which Lafayette's superblock severed, need to be brought back to better tie Downtown to the Common. All the shops on the side streets died when those pedestrian connections were walled off by that miserable failure of a mall. Whomever approved that giant substation which wrecked a block on the edge of Bedford/Shawmut/Kingston needs to be beaten with The Life and Death of American Cities as well.

czsz

01-28-2009, 05:40 PM

Pick your fights, guys. There are a million things I'd want to see demolished before a superdense apartment building in Downtown Crossing that maintains the street wall. Slight moderations would make this a fairly decent building.

That said...

“We’ve fought to make this a neighborhood,” said George Coorssen, a Tremont on the Common resident since 1973. “A fast-food takeout joint on our block will attract undesirables and turn it into Kenmore Square.”

...this might be one of the most hilarious NIMBY quotes of the year. Can we get a category for this in the ArchBoston Awards?

It's absurd on so many levels. Have they been to Kenmore Square lately? Are they afraid of all the brick sidewalking, cobblestone, upscale hotel and restaurant activity that might haunt their exclusive neighborhood? No, it sounds like they haven't visited Kenmore in 20 years - in which case, they're opposed to a vibrant, ticking student neighborhood that's a hub for all that makes city life worthwhile. Nor do they even seem to have a clear grasp of what a "neighborhood" is, given the poverty of activity in the area they're fighting to protect. A pox on their condos. Exile them to the Seaport so they can live in the city they deserve.

kennedy

01-28-2009, 08:26 PM

A pox on their condos. Exile them to the Seaport so they can live in the city they deserve.

Huzzah!

PaulC

02-27-2009, 12:41 PM

Downtown Crossing Meeting 3/4/09
DCP Members' Meeting -
March 4th

The next DCP Members' Meeting which will be held from 4:00pm to 5:00pm on Wednesday, March 4th at the Hyatt Regency Boston. Following the meeting from 5:00pm to 6:00pm will be a meet and greet for all in attendance.

At this meeting:

* Conventures will present Sail Boston 2009, an event taking place from July 8th-13th. The five-day Sail Boston festival will begin with the Grand Parade of Sail into Boston Harbor, continue with a crew and cadet parade through the downtown streets of Boston, crew and cadet soccer tournaments, exciting harbor tours, shopping, music, entertainment and the best cuisine in New England. There are 50 ships coming in and over 600,000 visitors a day. Find out how you can become part of this event!

*The W Hotel will talk about their Grand Opening scheduled for September 2009. The W Boston makes its dramatic entrance into the fashionable and storied Theatre District, an icon of contemporary sophistication where culture, shopping and nightlife buzz amid cobblestones and a Victorian landscape.

Find out what this hotel brings to the Downtown neighborhood and catch a glimpse of its beautiful architecture and style.

* The City of Boston will present its program Boston Buying Power: Powering Boston Business. This program assists the Boston business community in the procurement of electricity and natural gas through the creation of a City wide energy-buying group. Come find out ways your business can save energy dollars.

*William Ashmore, owner of Ivy Restaurant and Stoddards Fine Food & Ale, will share his concept for Continental Diner, a diner he plans to open in the neighborhood.

*There will also be a sneak preview on a Filene's Basement documentary!

This is your chance to hear about many important projects, upcoming events, and get a chance to meet new people from our neighborhood.

Please RSVP now by calling Kathleen Styger at 617-482-2139 or emailing her: kstyger@downtowncrossing.org.

This meeting is free for DCP members and $15 for non-members.

czsz

02-28-2009, 12:43 AM

fashionable and storied Theatre District

*cough*

ablarc

02-28-2009, 08:02 AM

...the fashionable and storied Theatre District, an icon of contemporary sophistication where culture, shopping and nightlife buzz amid cobblestones and a Victorian landscape.
Is the irony intentional?

commuter guy

02-28-2009, 08:55 AM

William Ashmore, owner of Ivy Restaurant and Stoddards Fine Food & Ale, will share his concept for Continental Diner, a diner he plans to open in the neighborhood.

This is good news for the area. I've been to the Ivy and the food and atmosphere were very good. Haven't tried Stoddards yet. Regarding the the Diner type restaurant, I would think an affordable non chain sit down restaurant would be very well received.

Ron Newman

02-28-2009, 09:15 AM

Did he say where he plans to move this diner from, and what lot he plans to set it down on? (I'd love to see it next to the Wilbur.)

ablarc

02-28-2009, 10:13 AM

^ Do you even know it's a railroad-car diner?

Ron Newman

02-28-2009, 10:46 AM

I assumed it was; are there other kinds of diners?

PaulC

02-28-2009, 11:08 AM

One article I read said it would be around the corner. There is a much bigger article in this week's Boston Courant. It say no location has been picked and that it will be based on the 1964 Lincoln Continental Convertable.

ablarc

02-28-2009, 12:25 PM

I assumed it was; are there other kinds of diners?
The Taystee in Harvard Square was a diner.

Elsie's, Brigham's, Mike's (http://www.mikescitydiner.com/)...

commuter guy

03-01-2009, 11:35 AM

Globe article - some business owners want downtown crossing to be reopened to general car traffic:

http://www.boston.com/news/local/massachusetts/articles/2009/03/01/would_car_traffic_bring_back_the_crowds/

PaulC

03-01-2009, 12:58 PM

I still think the best solution for Washington St. is to raise the street section to the same level as the sidewalk and carve out a narrower auto path using planters, benches, light poles and other street furniture. Open this to traffic at night. People can then take their cars to restaurant*with*valets and cabs can bring residents and visitors to the area. This would bring a lot more security to the area.

czsz

03-01-2009, 04:59 PM

It already hardly feels like a ped zone with all the delivery trucks and emergency vehicles lingering around. I would say open it, but make it extremely inconvenient and not at all obvious that cars are allowed.

JohnAKeith

03-01-2009, 06:33 PM

Why have to click?

Would car traffic bring back the crowds? (http://www.boston.com/news/local/massachusetts/articles/2009/03/01/would_car_traffic_bring_back_the_crowds/?page=full)
By Michael Levenson

Downtown Crossing's problems have been well-documented: Crime has spawned fear, heightened by a stabbing and shooting in the midst of a bustling afternoon. Shops that once thrived next to Jordan Marsh and Filene's have shuttered, leaving empty storefronts cheek-by-jowl with pushcarts, discount jewelry stalls, and gaping construction sites. Sidewalks that teem with rowdy teenagers and office workers by day lie empty and forbidding at night.

For years, city planners have been promising to restore the area to its former grandeur and make it a major urban destination. But as they have attempted solution after solution without success, they have never tried one idea: reopening the streets to traffic.

Indeed, Downtown Crossing remains one of the last vestiges of a largely discredited idea, the Ameri can pedestrian mall, which municipal planners once believed would help cities compete with proliferating suburban malls. In the 1970s, at least 220 cities closed downtown thoroughfares, paved them with bricks or cobbles and waited for them to take hold as urban destinations. Since then, all but about two dozen have reopened the malls to traffic, as planners, developers, and municipal officials came to believe that the lack of cars had an effect opposite of what they had intended, driving away shoppers, stifling businesses, and making streets at night seem barren and forlorn.

"Pedestrian malls never delivered the type of foot traffic and vitality they had expected," said Doug Loescher, director of The Main Street Center at The National Trust for Historic Preservation.

"The sense of movement that a combination of transit modes provides - whether on foot or in car - really does make a difference," he said. "People feel safer, because there's some kind of movement through the district, other than a lone pedestrian at night. It just creates a sense of energy that makes people feel more comfortable and makes the district more appealing."

Boston planners are against opening up Downtown Crossing, but as the district suffers the exodus of anchor businesses and a deepening malaise has settled in, some shop owners long for the energy, ease, and excitement they remember before Downtown Crossing closed to most traffic in 1978.

"There was a constant flow of cars, stopping and going; it was very active, very busy, like a typical city street," said Steve Centamore, co-owner since 1965 of Bromfield Camera Co., on Bromfield Street, part of which is open only to commercial traffic. "There were people coming and going. It didn't seem to impede any pedestrians. It was a lot busier. People could just pull up and get what they needed. Now, it takes an act of Congress to even get through here."

Pellegrino Bondanza, 72, who has sold vegetables in Downtown Crossing since he was a boy, said the pedestrian mall "didn't work out well." He hopes the city will reopen it to traffic.

"Maybe it would bring some of the action back in town," he said. "I remember as a kid, I tried to squeeze in with a pushcart and, if I could locate at a corner, I could sell what I had in an hour and make a good living there. You had to be a little careful crossing the streets and everything, but don't forget the cars went slow when they were going up them streets there. There was no fast driving."

Boston officials say they considered reopening Downtown Crossing to traffic and, in 2006, hired a team of consultants from London, Toronto, Berkeley, Calif., and Boston to study the idea. The consultants concluded that the mall should stay because the estimated 230,000 people who walk through Downtown Crossing every day should be enough to keep the place lively and economically vital.

"What we heard from them pretty loudly was, 'Not just yet. Make it work. Give it your best effort,' " said Andrew Grace, senior planner and urban designer at the Boston Redevelopment Authority. "Lots of cities throughout the world make these districts work. The historic centers in most European cities function, and they thrive."

Kristen Keefe, retail sector manager of the BRA, warned that bringing back traffic could squeeze out pedestrians who, she said, already contend with crowded sidewalks. "We just think these two things are in conflict," she said.

Boston built its pedestrian mall after a study showed that six times more pedestrians than cars traveled down Washington Street - in front of what was then Filene's and Jordan Marsh - "so the impetus was to reassert the balance for pedestrians a little bit and improve the safety and amenities for pedestrians," said Jane Howard, who helped design the mall for the BRA and is now a planner in a private firm.

It was a time when malls were being built across the country. Some are still considered successful - in Burlington, Vt., and Charlottesville, Va., for example. And New York City is experimenting with blocking traffic on Broadway through Times and Herald squares to create pedestrian-only zones. But those are the exceptions.

Chicago, which turned downtown State Street into a pedestrian mall in 1979, reopened it to traffic in 1996, convinced that the mall had worsened the area's economic slump and left the street deserted and dangerous. Eugene, Ore., scrapped its mall in 1997, frustrated that "people went around downtown instead of through it," said Mayor Kitty Piercy. Tampa got rid of its mall in 2001 because it "didn't bring back any retail," as the city had hoped, said Christine M. Burdick president of Tampa Downtown Partnership.

Buffalo, which has trolley service on its mall on Main Street, is currently reintroducing cars after finding that shoppers avoided stores that were cut off from traffic.

"It takes a leap of faith to go somewhere nearby, pay to park, and then walk to someplace you haven't been yet," said Deborah Chernoff, Buffalo's planning director. "All the cities are dealing with the reality of how people actually behave."

Downtown Crossing is not even a full pedestrian mall. Because Washington Street, its main thoroughfare, is open to commercial traffic, pedestrians mostly stick to the sidewalks, avoiding the cabs and police cruisers that often ply the route.

After dark on a recent weeknight, just after 8:30 p.m., Downtown Crossing resembled a film noir scene, its deserted rain-slick streets glistening with the reflections of neon signs from a shuttered liquor store and a discount jewelry shop. The few pedestrians who hurried by were mostly teenagers and office workers descending into the subway or headed to the bustle on Tremont Street. They walked purposefully, scurrying past darkened store after darkened store with metal gates pulled shut. The only cars were a police cruiser that rumbled past, an idling garbage truck, and the occassional taxi.

Yet some say the mall should stay.

The developer Ronald M. Druker, who owns buildings on Washington Street, said he has "vivid memories of the conflict between cars and pedestrians," before the mall was built. "If you insinuated cars and trucks on a normal basis into that area, it would not enliven it," he said. "It would create the same problems that it created 30 years ago when we got rid of them."

But others, particularly the shop owners struggling to survive the recession say they are eager to try just about anything that would bring back business.

"Downtown Crossing definitely needs something - that's for sure," said Harry Gigian owner since 1970 of Harry Gigian Co. jewelers on Washington Street, which has seen a sharp dropoff in sales. "Nobody comes downtown anymore."

czsz

03-01-2009, 07:47 PM

headed to the bustle on Tremont Street

When in god's name has there ever been more of a bustle on Tremont St., with the sole exception of the block right in front of the Boston Common cinema?

tobyjug

03-01-2009, 08:19 PM

Foolish article, inapposite old photo. Probably could find a photo of crowded sidewalks with horses and buggies filling in the street. Yeah, let's bring them back too. That will solve everything.
Its not the cars, its the stores. You want people, get greedy landlords to cut their rents. Hey you, the guy who owns the "Barnes and Noble" building, I'm talkin bout you. Bet that "short term" deal with Filene's Basement you rejected isn't looking too bad about now, is it, asshat?

gravedigger4444

03-01-2009, 08:38 PM

Most of the time, it seems like old photos of city street life have way more people around than modern ones.

ablarc

03-01-2009, 10:09 PM

Not so long ago, when Jordan's and Raymond's and Gilchrist's and Kennedy's joined with Filene's and five-and-tens like Grant's, Woolworth and McCrory's to comprise Washington Street's department store lineup, mounted police had to use their steeds to keep people on the overflowing sidewalks during the Christmas rush. Traffic was heavy, but because it moved so slowly it was never oppressive.

All those first-run Sack Theaters also helped; when weary of shopping, folks would go to a matinee.

Ron Newman

03-02-2009, 09:30 AM

McCrory's is one I haven't heard of before. Where was it?

ablarc

03-02-2009, 09:43 AM

^ At various times they also called themselves Kresge's and/or Newberry's. I think they were on the Common side of Washington towards Border's, but I'm not dead sure.

tobyjug

03-02-2009, 10:20 PM

Kresge's Korner on corner of Temple Place and Washington.

riffgo

03-02-2009, 10:29 PM

There was a five-and-dime store on Washington Street near Bromfield called, "Niesner's". It was L-shaped, and there was an entrance on Bromfield as well.

tobyjug

03-02-2009, 10:44 PM

garbribre

03-02-2009, 10:56 PM

You want the future of Downtown Crossing as a shopping district? Visit Hancock Street in Quincy. The old timers navigate by the stores that aren't there: "Turn right by the Sears, right at Woolworths, circle around by Remicks, and then if you are by Raymond's, no you went too far, so turn around by Robert Hall, get back on Hancock, then don't go past Colman's..."

Hehehe. So true.

http://img18.imageshack.us/img18/7854/img71331024x768.jpg

Oakland. Last week. Zipping by on the bike. This is the block beyond the renovated and recently re-opened Fox Theater. ('It's still 1954... right?')

Get over it, landlords. It's dead as a major shopping destination. So cut your rents and make it interesting. How about more students and move Chinatown up a bit?

Chinatown had/has its chance to expand--over the Pike and into the Herald's area, as well as over the X-way/Artery into that cloverleaf development (South Bay was it called?), and that's going nowhere fast.

Also, what happened with the Hudson Street development? Stalled (again), too?

bbfen

03-02-2009, 11:12 PM

Get over it, landlords. It's dead as a major shopping destination. So cut your rents and make it interesting. How about more students and move Chinatown up a bit?

I walked through DTX the other weekend (no snow, sunny day, late morning). Hadn't been through since mid-September. I was stunned at how dead it was. And September was when the Filene's hole still had a chance ...

I'm maybe the biggest grump on this forum, because I imagine what could be and am disappointed at the lack of imagination by our civic leaders and developers. In Downtown Crossing, I can't be grumpy because I can't imagine a turnaround without major concessions by landlords.

The newest development is interesting. Short-term leases of 5 year/2 years free so landlords can show future potential tenants that the building leases at "market rates." I don't see prices being returned to post-depression pricing within 5 years (because I don't predict a recovered economy in 5 years). I imagine that short-term instability of a cheaper lease but potential huge rate increase really doesn't work for a retail outfit though.

garbribre

03-03-2009, 12:25 AM

I'm maybe the biggest grump on this forum, because I imagine what could be and am disappointed at the lack of imagination by our civic leaders and developers.

Pffff. Hardly! Get to the back of the line. :)

In Downtown Crossing, I can't be grumpy because I can't imagine a turnaround without major concessions by landlords. The newest development is interesting. Short-term leases of 5 year/2 years free so landlords can show future potential tenants that the building leases at "market rates." I don't see prices being returned to post-depression pricing within 5 years (because I don't predict a recovered economy in 5 years). I imagine that short-term instability of a cheaper lease but potential huge rate increase really doesn't work for a retail outfit though.

Sometimes, when I read stuff here, I have to assume many of you live in some protective bubble, surrounded by books, and don't get out much.

It sucks everywhere, and is much worse in so many places than how much it sucks there. The empty storefronts, including in the preciousness that is San Francisco, is staggering. All your surveys and research and manipulation of data means nothing. You can say all you want about whatever market forces you think can be manipulated to get things started again (or to 'fool' prospective tenants into renting) and, you know what, all that doesn't matter. The kinds of people presenting all that blather will never have any imagination. That's not what they were trained, educated for and designed to do. Shit will just happen when it's ready, sometimes well outside our attempts to control it all.

Understand, I am not here to attack you personally bbfen; just a cumulative expression bottled up over weeks of reading posts from others, and where your observation(s) pushed me over the edge.

End rant. Ahhhhhh.... Must find pics of puppies and kittens now.

bbfen

03-03-2009, 07:15 AM

Understand, I am not here to attack you personally bbfen; just a cumulative expression bottled up over weeks of reading posts from others, and where your observation(s) pushed me over the edge.

End rant. Ahhhhhh.... Must find pics of puppies and kittens now.

No, I'm totally with you. I can't even get excited about things anymore (the cognac I've started drinking for breakfast helps?), so I just cruise icanhazcheezburger all day and make photocopies of my butt.

http://icanhascheezburger.com/2009/03/02/funny-pictures-copyin-mah-butt

PaulC

03-04-2009, 10:39 AM

this is from today's downtown crossing email: You are invited on Wednesday March 4th at 11:00 AM for an opening for a new business : BOLOCO , at 27 School Street.

Also following there will be a ribbon cutting at Marliave at 10 Bosworth Street, and Watch Hospital, 40 Bromfield Street, & Pizzeria Rico, 32 Bromfield Street for their new signage.

Mayor Thomas Menino will be there at these opening

statler

03-04-2009, 10:45 AM

New signs! Can you feel the excitement? Truly this is the dawn of a new era.

PaulC

03-04-2009, 11:01 AM

I think that downtown crossing is at the lowest point in my life time but on the other hand I think the long term prospects look better than ever. Don't forget that in about a year there will be a lot of Emerson and Sufolk students living in the area and with them hopefully school security guards.

Ron Newman

03-04-2009, 11:02 AM

didn't Marliave reopen a while ago?

statler

03-04-2009, 11:06 AM

Yeah, but Menino doesn't want to venture into DTX any more than he has to so he grouped all his appearances together. ;)

ablarc

03-04-2009, 11:10 AM

Can you feel the excitement? Truly this is the dawn of a new era.
Lil' ol' Boston..

statler

03-04-2009, 11:15 AM

^^ That's OK. The women like us for our brains anyway. ;)

CityMouse

03-04-2009, 11:16 AM

Ron, the Marliave reopened about a year ago. The food is quite good and pretty reasonable. I like the Sunday Night Gravy.

ablarc

03-04-2009, 11:56 AM

^ Did they put back the steps and the ironwork arch?

statler

03-04-2009, 11:57 AM

Bad news: The arch has not been replaced (yet).

Good news:
a. The steps have been fully restored, so obviously, someone recognized the value of that area.
b. There is still a lot of ongoing construction, so they haven't packed up and left yet.
c. There are plywood forms protecting the remaining iron, so they recognize it's value as well. It is a short leap to assume they know the value of the arch too.
d. The new signs look faaaaabulous! :rolleyes:

ablarc

03-04-2009, 12:32 PM

^ Did they add a wheelchair ramp?

statler

03-04-2009, 12:34 PM

Historical preservation trumps ADA?

statler

03-04-2009, 03:03 PM

Boston.com (http://www.boston.com/news/local/breaking_news/2009/03/menino_defends.html ) - March 4, 2009

Menino defends keeping Downtown Crossing street traffic-free
March 4, 2009

By John C. Drake, Globe Staff

Mayor Thomas M. Menino strolled through Downtown Crossing this morning, shaking hands with shop owners and defending his administration's insistence on keeping traffic off of Washington Street.

The urban shopping district has been plagued by decreased foot traffic, stalled retail development, and concerns over crime. Some observers have said it's time for the city to abandon its 30-year-old ban on non-commercial vehicle traffic on Washington Street.

But Menino said today that maintaining the stretch as a pedestrian area was key to the city's redevelopment plans.

"It's important to have people walking there," said Menino after cutting the ribbon on a new Boloco restaurant on School Street. "In the future, as we redevelop Downtown Crossing, we could have galleries along the walkways on weekends. Having traffic there doesn't help the flow of pedestrians as you move forward."

A key city planner said later that the city is open to allowing limited vehicle traffic during off-peak hours, with the introduction of traffic-calming measures.

"It may be that there's limited traffic that comes through when there aren't the volumes of people," said Andrew Grace, senior planner and urban designer at the Boston Redevelopment Authority. "That's one of the things we're going to look at.

"But just saying cars are better than people, I don't think in 2009 is really the approach that we want to take in a dense urban center."

BosDevelop

03-04-2009, 03:39 PM

Great another BOLOCO that will close by 4:00pm. where are the bars and restaurants (or gasp a live music venue) that will bring some life to this part of town?

TheRifleman

03-04-2009, 03:48 PM

With all the money coming in and out of Boston from all the Colleges how could we not have a balanced budget.

Boston should be the ultimate CASH COW.

JohnAKeith

03-04-2009, 04:52 PM

CAMPAIGN SHILL

DTX is in my district ... I believe it can and will be better. "Full-time" residents' concerns need to be addressed, but we also need to realize that this is a "business" district, and, now, a college and university district.

I have spent plenty of time in DTX (remember the old Haymarket bar?), and believe it will see better days. I think economic growth is what is needed here. Being open-minded about the contributions students make to this area is important and we need to explore how their needs can be met. Students' behaviors are perhaps as important as the wishes and concerns of the 6,000 residents of the area (a number I'm skeptical is real).

Padre Mike

03-04-2009, 10:12 PM

I find it strange that the Mayor wants to maintain the pedestrain-only policy of DTX; it's chock full of vehicles! I never walk down the middle of the street for fear of being run over by police, ambulance and delivery trucks. The only consolation is that the Wash., Winter, and Summer Sts. are one-way, and I only have to look in one direction before crossing them.

ablarc

03-05-2009, 06:14 AM

Looks like a war zone.

Hooplehead

03-05-2009, 07:50 AM

JohnnyKeith, dude. I do remember the old Haymarket. In fact, that was me propped up on the barstool next to you. It was the most entertaining bar in Boston, after the OS closed (of course). We will never see those happy days again now that the clenched-cheek crowd has taken over the city.

JohnAKeith

03-05-2009, 09:45 AM

RE: DTX. I spent a couple hours there, last evening.

It took me five tries (seriously) but I did finally find the one Boloco that is open past four. The one on School Street across from the Borders is open until 8:00 PM. Free wi-fi, to boot!

The street doesn't work because, as you say, you are always afraid a car's going to come up behind you (inevitably, a police cruiser). The road up Washington Street is graded, so pedestrians naturally gravitate to the sidewalks, but even between Macy's and "Filene's", where it is flat, you almost always see people to the sides, not the center.

Too many empty storefronts down there, to be sure. Scary and gloomy.

Ron Newman

03-05-2009, 10:02 AM

That's the brand-new one, I think. You must have visited all the other ones first ;-)

statler

03-05-2009, 10:59 AM

Boston Globe (http://www.boston.com/news/local/massachusetts/articles/2009/03/05/mayors_walking_tour_skirts_downtown_woes/ ) - March 5, 2009
Mayor's walking tour skirts downtown woes
He hails shop opening, vows to keep traffic out

By John C. Drake, Globe Staff | March 5, 2009

Mayor Thomas M. Menino strolled part of the Downtown Crossing district of Boston yesterday, shaking hands with enthusiastic shop owners and celebrating the grand opening of a burrito shop.

The tour - joined by neighborhood boosters, journalists, and members of Menino's staff - was designed to bolster his contention that Downtown Crossing should remain a pedestrian mall, sealed off from traffic, as it has been for 30 years.

Ironically, Menino actually used his walk to survey parts of the district that are open to motor traffic, and he avoided the pedestrian-only sections that have drawn complaints about crime and loitering. But the mayor nonetheless used the visit to dispute assertions by several area shop owners who told the Globe last week they want the city to add energy and excitement to the zone by reopening Downtown Crossing to cars.

"It's important to have people walking there," Menino said after cutting the ribbon at Boloco, a chain restaurant that has large windows that open onto Province Street. "In the future, as we redevelop Downtown Crossing, we could have galleries along the walkways on weekends."

While major urban areas like Chicago, Tampa, and Eugene, Ore., have abandoned pedestrian malls, Boston has clung to what it calls a "pedestrian zone," where people on foot can roam free, dodging only the occasional commercial truck or safety vehicle.

"Having traffic there doesn't help the flow of pedestrians as you move forward," Menino declared yesterday.

Menino avoided Washington Street, the section's main thoroughfare and the north-south axis of its pedestrian walkway, and thus did not bring reporters past the crumpled side of the former Filene's building and the accompanying hole in the ground that was to be a new hotel and retail development but has become a symbol of failed dreams in Downtown Crossing. The project was halted because of frozen credit markets.

The mayor's tour came in advance of a pair of public workshops that are scheduled for April on the future of Washington Street. A planner for the Boston Redevelopment Authority said yesterday the city is willing to discuss opening up Washington Street to traffic at night.

Menino acknowledged that Downtown Crossing can be foreboding at night as stores close and the only activity is an occasional truck or police car.

"If you create activity on the street, it won't be a ghost town," Menino said. He pointed with pleasure to a 31-story condominium tower nearing completion. "Look at this building," he said. "That's 100 or so units of new housing. It's about the future. We talk about the past everyday. I'm talking about the future."

Randi Lathrop, deputy director for community planning at the Boston Redevelopment Authority, said plans to improve the appeal of Washington Street to pedestrians include raising portions of the roadway even with the sidewalk, to encourage shoppers to cross the street. The BRA also wants to improve management of the pedestrian area by making the restrictions on vehicle traffic clearer and keeping deliveries to off-peak hours.

"The pedestrian zone is going to stay," said Lathrop, who is the mayor's primary aide on Downtown Crossing issues. "It's been in existence since 1979 and will continue. But no one pays attention to the regulations the Boston Transportation Department puts out there. There are a lot things we want to institute: putting up bollards, property signage, enforcement. We want to get input from residents and retailers."

One major Downtown Crossing developer, Ronald M. Druker, said giving up on the pedestrian area would be a disaster. He said the problems at Downtown Crossing are related to the global economic crisis and a failure by the city to better manage the pedestrian zone.

"When business is good, the Downtown Crossing is thriving, and when it is managed properly, it absolutely works," Druker said. "The life that can be generated by pedestrian activity makes that retail much more viable. A managed environment that is vehicle-free is far better than having cars compete with pedestrians."

One local developer on the tour said he favored adding cars to Washington Street, pointing to Philadelphia as an example where an outdoor shopping district had done so successfully.

"Once it was reopened and re-landscaped, traffic came through, and it became a major turnaround," said Clarence Harwood.

But his support for additional cars on Washington Street may not be surprising. He owns the Pi Alley Garage.

John C. Drake can be reached at jdrake@globe.com.

statler

03-05-2009, 01:28 PM

JeffDowntown

03-07-2009, 08:35 AM

"And to leave you with a good taste in your mouth:"

Statler -- gorgeous final shot -- than you for adding the optimism!

czsz

03-07-2009, 08:40 PM

Sigh...look, Mayor Menino, DT Crossing's best shot is to play off its zest, verve, and edge. So please, tear down your uniform Main Streets signs (Pizzeria Rico and Watch Hospital look like they were made from the same mold) and use its money to invest in Blue Hill Avenue, where it's needed. Seriously, Philadelphia has been covered with peppy attempts to promote itself via prepped-up street furniture for a decade, and it's fooling no one. And what I've been witnessing is the Philadelphification of what was one of the city's best neighborhoods.

Oh, and while you're at it, could you order Suffolk to de-evict the tenants it kicked out of its new dorm building so it could replace them with a blank wall covered in catalog quality headshots of smiley students? Thanks!

CDubs

03-09-2009, 09:50 AM

Boston.com (http://www.boston.com/news/local/massachusetts/articles/2009/03/09/chicagos_pedestrian_mall_solution_traffic/) - March 9 '09

Chicago's pedestrian mall solution: traffic
Fortunes soared with format shift

CHICAGO - State Street's problems 20 years ago will sound familiar to anyone who knows Downtown Crossing in Boston.

The historic downtown shopping destination, once anchored by classic department stores like Marshall Field and Goldblatt's, was dirty, dangerous, and down on its knees. The city had blocked off traffic on the street, turning it into a pedestrian mall in hopes of competing with suburban malls.

But instead of enlivening the street, the mall isolated it from the rest of downtown. Businesses closed, shoppers fled, pigeons and trash proliferated, and the street emptied into a wasteland at night. Like their counterparts in Boston, Chicago officials dispatched fruit vendors, hoping they would bring back shoppers. They didn't.

Under mounting pressure from business owners, the city made a fateful decision in 1996. Like hundreds of cities across the country, it decided to rip up its pedestrian mall and reconnect State Street to downtown.

These days, State Street is at the heart of a downtown renaissance. By day, diverse crowds of office workers, college students, and teenagers throng the sidewalks, passing hotels, coffee shops, bookstores, and clothing stores. By night, condo owners return to the upper floors of formerly decrepit department stores, students head to newly built classrooms and dorms, and visitors flock to rehabilitated theaters. Businesses power-wash the sidewalks and maintain planters. The local ABC affiliate even built a glass studio on State Street, turning the hubbub into a live backdrop, like Rockefeller Plaza on the "Today" show.

As Boston grapples with the decline of Downtown Crossing, the rebirth of Chicago's State Street is a case study of how a seemingly small change - opening up the area to traffic - can usher in a long period of growth and renewal. Chicago officials and business owners, like those in Boston, knew they ultimately needed more appealing stores, increased nighttime safety, and enhanced amenities for pedestrians. But unlike in Boston, they came to the decision that none of those changes would be possible if the city did not remove its pedestrian mall first.

"It was a very courageous decision because we had spent a lot of money to mall it, and we had to say, 'You know what? This is not working,' " said Christina Raguso, acting commissioner of the Department of Community Development. "Fortunately, the mayor could see past the mall, and see that there was still prosperity in State Street. And it's really a great story. It worked. It opened up so many economic opportunities and retail opportunities for the street, and made it a destination."

Like Downtown Crossing, which sees an estimated 230,000 people walk through every day, State Street always enjoyed heavy foot traffic. Even during its nadir in the 1980s, more than 20,000 people passed most corners of the nine-block mall every day, making it one of the most traveled areas in the city. But not until the street was reconnected to downtown did the district come back to life, city officials and planners say.

"It was just critical," said Philip Enquist, an urban designer at Skidmore, Owings & Merrill, which designed the removal of the mall. "I think State Street would not have succeeded had we not brought the cars back. The ripple effects have been phenomenal."

There are a few distinct differences between State Street and Downtown Crossing. The Chicago mall was larger than Boston's, nine blocks compared with four, and it was constructed on a wide thoroughfare that could handle four lanes of traffic and wide sidewalks to accommodate pedestrians, unlike Boston's narrower Washington Street.

Boston officials staunchly oppose the removal of the mall in Downtown Crossing, saying they hired consultants who concluded that it could still thrive. Some shop owners and developers agree, but as the district has suffered the closing of Filene's and Jordan Marsh in recent years, others argue that it is time for the mall to go.

"It just has created this blockage," said John B. Hynes III, the developer and grandson of Boston Mayor John B. Hynes, who is struggling to finance the conversion of the former Filene's building into a residential and retail tower. "I've talked to a dozen retailers, and they wish that people could drive through, just because it makes it easier to drop people off and pick them up."

American cities built more than 200 pedestrian malls in the 1960s and 1970s, when they were losing shoppers to proliferating suburban malls and hoping to draw them back with placid, car-free walkways in their downtowns. Chicago built its mall in 1979; Boston built its in 1978.

"In those days, the suburbs were hot, white flight was taking place, and people were scared of urban America," said Ty Tabing, executive director of the Chicago Loop Alliance, the downtown business association. "It was a different era then, when these things made sense."

In Chicago, city officials and shoppers soon came to regard the State Street mall as a failure, pocked with fast-food outlets, wig shops, and discount stores. The Reliance Building, a grand skyscraper from the 1890s, became a symbol of its decline, a vacant "flophouse for pigeons," in the words of one city official.

"This group of businesses were extremely frustrated with the mall," Enquist said. "It was downbeat. The businesses were really failing. It was very inactive at night. Hotels wouldn't even have State Street on the map because they didn't want people walking there at night. It only had police cars and buses so it had this terrible feel to it."

In early 1996, the city scrapped the mall. These days, only about two dozen downtown malls remain nationwide, as officials and planners came to a reluctant conclusion: that the lack of traffic hurt downtowns by walling them off from the rest of the city.

"The lesson is that cities are about activity and energy," said Elizabeth Hollander, who was Chicago's planning commissioner in the 1980s and is now a senior fellow at Tufts University. "What they want to do is make themselves different from suburban malls - that's their niche."

In the last decade, State Street has seen an influx of business. The Reliance Building was rehabilitated into a boutique hotel, the Burnham. A mix of stores - Old Navy, Urban Outfitters, Land's End, Macy's - have opened, and the refurbished Chicago Theatre, Gene Siskel Film Center, and Joffrey Ballet draw nighttime visitors. The area still has its problems - several vacant buildings, rowdy loiterers.

But the outlook is much brighter than it was in the 1980s.

"It went into a downward spiral," said Ronald M. Arnold, vice president of business affairs at Robert Morris College, which is located on State Street. "When the street was reopened, life came back to it. It's just that activity and bustle that creates that excitement, that feeling of safety and security that makes things happen."

Michael Levenson can be reached at mlevenson@globe.com.

kz1000ps

03-09-2009, 12:18 PM

Yesterday:

http://img141.imageshack.us/img141/6686/img7738.jpg

http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/4553/img7739.jpg

http://img186.imageshack.us/img186/7403/img7745.jpg

http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/6484/img7746.jpg

http://img141.imageshack.us/img141/4862/img7747.jpg

She was there:

http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/3411/img7749.jpg

http://img22.imageshack.us/img22/7681/img7773.jpg

ablarc

03-09-2009, 12:23 PM

Inspiring.

underground

03-09-2009, 12:57 PM

Pic 1, 3, 4 show locations that businesses are actively moving to.

underground

03-10-2009, 09:11 AM

The Herald's reporting (http://www.bostonherald.com/business/general/view.bg?&articleid=1156564&format=&page=1&listingType=biz#articleFull) that the folks who run 21st Amendment are opening up a diner in one of Suffolk's buildings. It sounds kind of cheesy, but 21st Amendment is one of my personal favorites so I'll with hold judgment until I see the finished product.

statler

03-10-2009, 09:21 AM

Boston Herald - March 10, 2009
Diner revs up for downtown
Also, Pigalle grows up
By Donna Goodison / Turning the Tables | Friday, March 6, 2009 | http://www.bostonherald.com | Business & Markets
Photo
Photo by John Wilcox

A 1960s-era diner largely inspired by San Francisco’s landmark Fog City Diner is planned for Boston’s Downtown Crossing.

The 225-seat Continental Diner is slated to open a year from now, decked out with a piece of an old rail car and automotive motifs from the mid-’60s.

William Ashmore, director of operations for Continental Concepts, declined to identify the location, but sources say it will be on the ground floor of a Suffolk University-owned building. The Boston restaurant group owns Ivy Restaurant on Temple Place in the same neighborhood and will open Stoddard’s Fine Food & Ale across the street next month.

The Continental Diner will be a “traditional over-the-top classic American diner,” according to Ashmore. He and his partners made a few visits to the Fog City Diner and researched the popular tourist attraction online. Ashmore liked that it was an elegant place, with a rail car kitchen and traditional soda fountains. “It has everything that a diner should, at heart, minus the grease,” he said.

Continental Concepts is consulting with American diner historian Richard J.S. Gutman to put the authentic finishing touches on the restaurant. Gutman, the author of “American Diner: Then & Now,” is curator of the diner museum at Johnson & Wales University’s Culinary Arts Museum.

The Boston diner also will have traditional soda fountains and an exposed kitchen serving all three meals from 7 a.m. to midnight.

A 1964 Lincoln Continental convertible will be used as its marketing vehicle. The diner’s booths will resemble the back seat of the Lincoln, and its concave ceiling will be sprayed with copper enamel, the same color as the car.

Menu items will include steak and eggs, huevos rancheros, chicken-fried steak, waffles, burgers and salads. Bread and a rotating lineup of cupcakes will be baked in-house. Meals with a drink will run $11 for breakfast, $13 for lunch and $25 for dinner.

Continental Concepts is able to plan a new venture amid a dicey economy, because it’s showing positive numbers at Ivy, Ashmore said. Ivy serves Italian-inspired small plates and prices all of its wine at $26 a bottle.

“We don’t seem to be affected, because we’re value-oriented,” Ashmore said. More changes are in store for Boston chef Marc Orfaly.

He and co-owner and general manager Kerri Foley have put Pigalle, their award-winning French bistro in the Theatre District, up for sale.

The 54-seat restaurant has outgrown its customer base, and Orfaly and Foley plan to search for a bigger space to accommodate larger parties and private dining, a spokeswoman for the couple said.

According to the Boston Restaurant Group’s listing for Pigalle, it has annual sales of $1.3 million.

Its owners are looking for a new location in the Financial District or Back Bay with enough room for 100 to 120 customers, according to broker Charlie Perkins.

“Pigalle is a starter restaurant,” he said. “(First-time owners) all come into a 40- or 50-seater because that’s what they can afford. Then they build a following and go off and do something bigger.”

Orfaly also owns Marco Cucina Romana in the North End. He recently closed his third restaurant, Restaurant L in Newbury Street’s LouisBoston clothing store, after just two months.

The three Z Square restaurants in Cambridge and Boston closed this year, and now the owners have filed two Chapter 7 bankruptcy cases to liquidate the business.

Filed Feb. 20, both bankruptcy petitions list debt of $1 million to $10 million. The restaurants’ attorney could not be reached.
Article URL: http://www.bostonherald.com/business/general/view.bg?articleid=1156564

statler

03-18-2009, 11:37 AM

I don't live in DTX but I'll take a stab at what I still like about it.

I love the fact that despite the tons of abuse this area has suffered at the hands of greedy developers, city officials and landlords, it still remains a vibrant place. Maybe not as vibrant as ablarc would like, but lively nonetheless.
By all rights DTX should be a ghost town. There is giant fucking hole in it's heart. The Barnes & Noble space has been empty for over a year. More and more shops are being hit by the economy.
And yet, it still thrives, many, many other stores remain. H&M is undergoing a renovation. Lambert's Produce just moved back to it's old corner (despite the fact that it is boarded up and covered with gaudy graphics). The Modern, the Opera House and The Paramount are all undergoing or have completed renovations.
I love the fact that there is pen shop next to a barber shop next to a sporting goods store.
I love the fact that the White Building has been restored.
I love the fact that the new owner of Marlieav's recognized what they had and more or less left well enough alone.
I love the fact that an ugly, old garage has been replaced with a great looking condo tower. I also love that the condo tower developer recognized what it had with the Littlest Bar space and restored the facade as well as restoring the Steps.
I love the fact that the owner of the Winthrop Building has meticulously maintained their building rather than succumbing to temptation to modernize or going lax on upkeep desite the fact that the surrounding neighborhood no longer matches its stately presence.
I love the fact that the Borders Bookstore is smart enough to use the space outside it's building and helps create a nice atmosphere in the otherwise bland plaza.
I love the fact the Old South Meeting house isn't treated as just a relic, but as an active building, hosting both a used-book stand and a small produce stand.
I love the fact that there are still dozens of carts to pick up a quick snack, lunch or trinket.

I love the fact that despite all forces working against it, Downtown Crossing continues to have a there, there.

Jane Jetson

03-18-2009, 07:27 PM

The diner sounds like a good idea - it will bring a lot of tourists to the area, and eventually attract other businesses. I still think the quickest and the best way to revitalize Downtown Crossing is to put a grocery of some kind, preferably in the Barnes & Noble space. As long as it is reasonably priced (not a Whole Foods), it will bring people in. Even in a bad economy, people still have to eat, and you don't have to wait for a concept to catch on. It will create constant foot traffic, especially in the hours after work when the streets typically become deserted. Once the grocery starts to pull people in, other little shops will follow and the next thing you know, you're recreated a shopping district and a neighborhood. The area is going to have to come back piece by piece - they can't wait for Filene's to save it.

Ron Newman

03-18-2009, 08:03 PM

It absolutely needs a grocery. B&N is a challenging place to put one, because it is a multi-story space.

Jane Jetson

03-18-2009, 08:33 PM

I forgot about the upper floors - even though I'm familiar with the place and used to go inside of it, I only think of street level, what meets the eye. You do sometimes overlook the gems that are on Washington St. just above eye level; the garish signs and cheesy renovations distract you.

jass

03-18-2009, 09:24 PM

Grocery stores should always be in basements in urban areas.

Suffolk 83

03-19-2009, 12:27 AM

Great post statler. It doesnt matter what exactly DTX is, as long as it doesnt look like anything else.

statler

03-19-2009, 08:52 AM

Thanks.

Of course, none of that is too say that things are all hunky-dory in DTX. There are very serious problems with the area that need to be (and should be) discussed and hopefully addressed.
I just wanted to counter the idea that people were ready to start hanging up Abandon all hope, ye who enter here signs.

One of the worst things that could happen is if people just give up on DTX as a lost cause. DTX needs people to go there and shop and eat there. If we scare people away it will never get better.

Stick and carrot.

TheRifleman

03-19-2009, 09:57 AM

Downtown will flourish but under economic circumstances I think we see more economic chaos before this crisis is over. Once Filenes project finishes construction their will be more energy back into the Heart of Downtown.

The only problem is how long will this project drag on.

statler

03-19-2009, 10:00 AM

^^True, but DTX had problems before the economy tanked too.

The area needs more than just a economic rebound to restore its glory. Though it will be impossible without it.

TheRifleman

03-19-2009, 10:22 AM

I see Suffolk University spreading their wings into this area as time goes on.
DTX in my opinion will never be what it was(the Main shopping district of BOSTON) The direction that DTX is evolving into is a Huge Commercial Building with a couple main stream stores and some downtown living.

It's not like you can't get most of the stylish retail items on the internet now.

cden4

03-19-2009, 10:58 AM

Some inspiration:

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3233/2781471204_b48cc8e23e.jpg?v=0
Grafton Street, Dublin, Ireland

TheRifleman

03-19-2009, 11:02 AM

Nice picture too bad Boston's Downtown is not a strip of Brownstone buildings.

statler

03-22-2009, 09:04 AM

Boston Globe (http://www.boston.com/news/local/massachusetts/articles/2009/03/22/downtowns_dark_heart/ ) - March 22, 2009
Downtown's dark heart
Boston's shopping district loses its charm at night, becoming a lonely, desolate place apart

By Michael Levenson, Globe Staff | March 22, 2009

All was still, so still that the only sound was the buzzing of the sodium-colored street lights and the flapping of a pigeon in the partially demolished shell of the former Filene's building. Washington Street was empty, dotted with trash bags left by the shopkeepers who had long ago hauled them to the sidewalk and headed for home. Suddenly, two figures emerged from the doorway of a century-old apartment building. One was smoking a cigarette; the other held a pit bull on a leash.

"There's nothing to be afraid of," said the smoker, Alex Ogan, smiling and taking a puff, as his friend looked on, "because this is a ghost town."

To travel to Downtown Crossing at night, long after the lively throngs of after-work commuters, shoppers, and joggers have gone, is to enter a desolate and at times foreboding world sparsely populated by a Runyonesque cast of characters - bar hoppers, smooching lovers, a man looking for a fight, and a cane-toting 90-year-old called Princess Diana.

Between 6 p.m. and midnight, the neighborhood undergoes a profound transformation, from kinetic shopping hub to lonely alleyway. After the shops close at 8 and 9, the only movement on the street is from the occasional taxi, the rhythmic patter of its tires audible as it rumbles over the crisscrossed pavers that line the pedestrian mall along Washington Street.

While many streets in famously sleepy Boston can be quiet at night, the feeling here is different. The lack of all but commercial traffic makes it seem a district apart from the rest of downtown - so quiet that the click of heels echo from a block away and you can hear the horns honking on Tremont Street.

Downtown Crossing is one of the country's last remaining pedestrian malls, a vestige of the 1970s that was intended to enliven American downtowns by blocking them off from traffic but instead made many of them seem eerie and forlorn, particularly at night. At 11:30 p.m., surveying the stillness outside his condo on Washington Street, with Ogan and his pit bull, Twister, Kevin Barron offered an idea, unbidden.

"We need to open it up to traffic," said Barron, who moved to the street in 2001. "We are so sick of this. It's plagued by loiterers at day and a ghost town at night."

Ogan nodded. "From a purely residential convenience standpoint, it would be helpful," he said. "Newbury Street works great."

Ogan moved to Washington Street from Somerville's Davis Square six months ago, he said, to be closer to his job as an investment manager in Copley Square.

"I wish my neighborhood were nicer," he said, "but I love my apartment."

When the evening began at 6, Downtown Crossing was at its liveliest, jammed with men and women with garment bags and briefcases, teenagers gabbing on the sidewalk, shoppers carrying bags, vendors hawking roasted nuts, sausages, fruit. Snippets of conversation filled the air.

"I gotta go! See ya, kid."

"I sent the e-mail and CC'd Brian."

But as the sun dipped behind the skyscrapers and the shops closed, buttoning up their gates, Washington Street began to empty.

"Downtown is dead-town at night," said Omar Lopez, a baseball cap vendor who packed up his pushcart at 7. At 8:30, the bustle had become a trickle. At 9:30, the street was mostly still. Mary Ann Ponti, who has lived on the street for seven years, stepped out of her building, trailing her Yorkshire terrier, Cannoli. She spotted the elderly woman with the cane, another resident of the street, carrying a bag from Wendy's.

"Hi, Princess Diana!" Ponti said, and they chatted briefly.

"I love living here," Ponti said, explaining that she can walk to her job in the Financial District and to her kung fu class in Chinatown. "I'm always meeting people I know in the Crossing, which I like because this is community."

Then she went back inside. The street was lonely again. Taxis that had inched along earlier sped through, unimpeded. At 10:30, a burst of life hit the street as a crowd of theatergoers left a performance of "Dirty Dancing" at the Boston Opera House. And then, just as quickly, they were gone, into cars, buses, and the subway.

At 11, with the street barren, a large man with a bristling crew cut appeared. His speech was slurred. "Bunch of nerds!" he said to a bespectacled reporter and photographer, who did not argue and walked away.

Leaving a bar, John Hodgkins and Dwayne Theriot stopped at the former Filene's building. They peered over a fence at a gaping hole in the ground, and a sheared-off wall, signs of a stalled effort to convert the building into a residential and retail tower.

"Dude, this is worse than the Big Dig," Theriot told Hodgkins.

"It's a scar," said Hodgkins, who has worked downtown for 15 years.

Still, he said, the area could come back to life, like Times Square in New York, mixing nostalgia and buzz. This is music to the ears of city officials, who say new restaurants and plans for 750 housing units by 2011 will eventually revive Downtown Crossing.

"I think it does have potential to be very strong," Hodgkins said. And then he and Theriot were gone, down into the subway, and all that was left was the night.

After six hours in Downtown Crossing, it was quiet again, and still. A horn honked in the distance. The street lights buzzed. A taxi rumbled past.

Michael Levenson can be reached at mlevenson@globe.com.

PaulC

03-22-2009, 11:18 AM

I think this is just another fluff article from the globe.

I've heard that Dirty Dancing has really liven up the area, at least pre theater. Once the Suffolk and Emerson dorms and theaters open there should be even more life at least in that part of Washington St., not to mention the college's private police force. Time to turn the old RKO into a concert hall and not a storage space. They should also include a performance space in the planned project across from the Opera House. Harvard's ART has talked about a downtown space in the past.

As I've said before two of the most important things they should do is 1) make the street and sidewalk level like Winter St. and 2) allow vehicles after 7 pm. Residents and visitors can then drive or take cars to their destinations or homes. At this point it's the chicken/egg scenario there aren't enough destinations to attract more people and there aren't enough people to attract more destinations.

At this point exactly who do they think would be driving up Washington St after 11. Probably not the type of people you would want in your neighborhood. It could become an extension of the zone

From Chowhound - Boston I've become a fan of this place too(Dylan's). 1 great advantage for me is that it's very close..:), the staff is very friendly. I've had the kobe meatloaf, mac n cheese, and crabcakes.

BTW, the play Dirty Dancing has been a huge boon to this area. Fajita's and Rita's was even crowded the other night..:)
http://chowhound.chow.com/topics/604146

Lurker

03-22-2009, 11:37 AM

bbfen

03-22-2009, 02:39 PM

The current owner of the RKO wants to gut the space for offices. They've approached several architecture firms to do drawings, but there's the matter of the Midtown Cultural District protecting the space. I suspect there will eventually be unpermitted work to demolish enough of the space, a slap on the wrist fine claiming there was a change of use relieving them of the responsibilities to maintain the theater as stated in the cultural district, followed by more cheap office space. Given how well the Gaiety was protected along the lines of this argument, you get the idea.

One of the Back Bay xenophobes suggested that Berklee buy/redo the place and move their performance hall there and turn the current one into dorms (so they wouldn't build their tower). I think Berklee politely said "Yes, interesting" and moved on, but it was suggested.

JohnCostello

03-22-2009, 04:27 PM

cden 4

I saw your reply with Grafton Street in Dublin. Grafton Street is actually a hybrid of Newbury without any cars. The more mass market retaillers that are needed in any city and that have stuck or were with Downtown Crossing are up on and off of O"Connell Street north of the GPO. Most of the stores in Grafton Street are small with the larger stores being HMV or higher end department stores along the lines of what Bonwit's used to be. Dunnes Stores and the big English retaillers are up off of O'Connell Street, which is also closer to the suburban trains (Tara Street / DART) and the Luas. The LUAS comes close to Grafton Street, but the bus transport in Dublin, which is still the major people mover concentrates on O'Connell Street and the Quays along the River. Also, the LUAS to Grafton Street serves the more wealthy south of Dublin, not the the less well off part. It is kind of like the Green line ending at Arlington Street and not going on to Boylston.

Winter Street has a slightly smaller width as Grafton Street with max 5 story buildings, not the 6 to 9 (Provident SB / 30 Winter excepted) that DTX has. This allows for more sunlight into the street, making it more pedestrian and less "I am not going to let my teenage daughter walk through here" kind of look.

Please also remember that Dublin has had its Lafayette Place debacle (The ILAC Center) and it has no where near the suburban mall structure and dense suburban downtown retail structure (Newton Center, Porter Square, Quincy Center, Central Square) that greater Boston has.

Also, let's not beat around the bush. DTX has a huge "Young Urban Maggot" problem. Many women I work with in town avoid DTX except a lunchtime when a good portion of the Yummie population is in school or sleeping in. The Dublin version of this is in and around O'Connell Street as well. The County and City government have made efforts to clean the place up but I have never been told to watch my camera and how I am holding it one block from Macy's as I was in Dublin.

Also, I was in Dublin in July. That picture is great but the country is starting to hurt (Think Arizona / Florida / Imperial Valley type of vacancies in housing and soon to be Houston 1980's vacancies in office space in Dublin). Let's take a retail vacancy report for Grafton Street when this was taken versus Grafton Street in Summer 2010.

ablarc

03-22-2009, 07:11 PM

CLICK:

http://66.230.220.70/images/post/boston1955/washingtonandkneeland.jpg
Photo: MIT.

awood91

03-22-2009, 09:37 PM

oh man, that coca cola sign is amazing!

nm88

03-22-2009, 11:57 PM

Ablarc, love that photo. When was it taken?

ablarc

03-23-2009, 06:19 AM

^ 1955 or 56. You'll find it in this treasure trove (http://dome.mit.edu/handle/1721.3/33655 ) discovered by charlie mta.

Search under "Kneeland." I trimmed the photo a bit, top and bottom.

ablarc

03-23-2009, 07:02 AM

Or how about this for how Chinatown could/should/used to look before its heart turned into a parking lot and the signs went all tame and boring. Click to enlarge:

http://66.230.220.70/images/post/boston1955/00 bos chinatown 1955.jpg

kennedy

03-23-2009, 10:40 AM

Ablarc, can a city have more than one neighborhood that serve (basically) the same purpose? It seems everyone wants either a SoHo or Times Square, in Fort Point, in the Seaport, in DTX, near Fenway, on Causeway Street, Government Center, and so on.

I mean, it seems to me it would make more sense to have neighborhoods that served different, unique purposes. Fort Point for the young hipster, club-going scene. DTX for the local shopping, living, and dining. Seaport for the business travelers and their families. Fenway and Causeway St. for sports bars and the like. Government Center as the civic center of the city (gov't, schools, police/fire HQ, residential, etc.)

Wouldn't the city work more effecitively if certain neighborhoods had certain purposes, or attitudes? You want to dance until 3am, you go here. Can't get into the game, watch it there. Maybe it would be too suburban (this here, that there), but encourage (minimal zoning) certain establishments in certain areas? Maybe DTX would be more vibrant if people didn't have 3 alternatives to it (and had a good, solid reason to LIVE there.)

KentXie

03-23-2009, 05:44 PM

kennedy

03-23-2009, 08:22 PM

Well, how about Boston?

statler

03-25-2009, 01:42 PM

This could be very, very bad for DTX:
Consumerist.com (http://consumerist.com/5183629/is-borders-about-to-go-under)

Is Borders About To Go Under?
By Chris Walters, 10:07 AM on Wed Mar 25 2009, 6,317 views

Yesterday's post about Borders closing down its unprofitable CD and DVD sections prompted a tip from the owner of a small music label. He says his distributor has already cut off shipments to Borders once for nonpayment (in November 2008), and on Monday the distributor warned labels that they'll have to agree not to hold him "liable on any future shipments to Borders in case they file for bankruptcy." Borders' CFO left in January, which is rarely a good sign for a troubled company. And this morning, the Detroit Free Press notes that the bookseller is facing being delisted from the New York Stock Exchange. We may not have to wait long to find out; CEO Ron Marshall is hosting a conference call with analysts and investors next week.

Ron Newman

03-25-2009, 01:44 PM

Someone I know from LiveJournal who works at Borders DTX says the store is not only doing well, but is actively hiring.

statler

03-25-2009, 01:50 PM

^^ That doesn't surprise me. It's always packed in there. There are probably a few other stores in the same boat.

But if the corporate parent is going down, the baby gets thrown out with bathwater. Hopeful the the landlord is on the ball and offers the space to B&N at bargain basement prices.

Or move the original Bargain Basement into the space until their new home is finished.

Ron Newman

03-25-2009, 02:46 PM

Her LJ remark, and mine, were in the context of Borders possibly deciding to selectively close some stores. Not the whole chain going under.

statler

03-25-2009, 02:53 PM

Right, in that case the DTX Borders is assuredly safe.

But that is the same tactic that Linens & Things and Circuit City tried, and we know how that worked out for them. Hopefully Borders will have better luck.

Ron Newman

03-25-2009, 03:03 PM

I suppose Chapter 11, followed by a scoop-up by B&N, is one possibility. In that case I think they'd want to keep DTX.

statler

03-25-2009, 03:09 PM

I wonder if B&N is in any position to buy Borders (even at Ch. 11 prices)? I don't think any brick & mortar booksellers are doing too well right now.

But at any rate, you were correct with your original point. Downtown Borders probably isn't going anywhere anytime soon (unless things are much worse than they are letting on). I pushed the panic button a little too quickly. :rolleyes:

kennedy

03-25-2009, 05:19 PM

No way B&N will scoop up the entire company, most of their stores are neighbors. How often do you see a Borders with more than a half-mile to the next B&N?

Although, it would be pretty awesome if an independent or at least a local chain picked it up.

Ron Newman

03-25-2009, 05:25 PM

I don't see that many local candidates, though:

Harvard Book Store? Maybe, they were just sold to new owners, and they once before had a second store in Back Bay.

Brookline Booksmith? They gradually contracted from a large local chain to just the one Brookline store, but did then open a second Wellesley store, replacing a former Lauriat's.

Brattle Book Shop? Used books are what they know. I can't see them branching out into new books.

Commonwealth Books? See Brattle Book Shop above.

czsz

03-25-2009, 07:52 PM

Wouldn't the city work more effecitively if certain neighborhoods had certain purposes, or attitudes? You want to dance until 3am, you go here. Can't get into the game, watch it there. Maybe it would be too suburban (this here, that there), but encourage (minimal zoning) certain establishments in certain areas? Maybe DTX would be more vibrant if people didn't have 3 alternatives to it (and had a good, solid reason to LIVE there.)

This was a midcentury philosophy - segment the city and classify it into different zones of uses. Government Center was one product of this thinking. The Financial District was an unplanned realization of it. I'd rather have 24 hour neighborhoods all around than single-purpose districts that only pulsated at their given times, and it makes more sense from a transportation and safety standpoint to encourage mixed neighborhood purposes as well.

stp81

03-25-2009, 08:34 PM

That entire block that includes Macy's and the Hyatt is horrible for a downtown area. Level the whole block. (re?) Connect Temple St. to Chauncy to break it up, it would line up nicely with the gap in that older building on Chauncy St. A new highrise or two of hotel/residences, a multi level Macy's and/or other department, a grocery store as mentioned before. Sidewalk space along Washington St for outdoor cafe's and restaurant's, etc. And what is that Washington-Essex building currently housing? That might be a good spot for Macy's if renovated to anchor the area at that end, an older larger building like in SF and NY. Put up a big screen on that rounded section of Mill. Place and string up some tacky lights over sections of the street.

Ron Newman

03-25-2009, 09:27 PM

what is that Washington-Essex building currently housing?

Most notably, the huge vacant RKO Boston (http://cinematreasures.org/theater/4870/) theatre.

That might be a good spot for Macy's if renovated

Before it was the RKO Boston theatre, it was Henry Siegel's department store.

czsz

03-28-2009, 01:20 AM

DTC is definitely now ruled by what must be Suffolk and Emerson students at night; they are coursing up and down Tremont in waves. Streets like Washington and Winter are definitely emptier than they ought to be.

There's an intimidating Suffolk security muscle car patrolling the blocks between Winter and the Boston Common cinema.

Addendum: If only the T ran an hour or two later. It's hard to believe watching a 10pm movie means running to catch the last train.

briv

03-28-2009, 06:36 PM

DTC is definitely now ruled by what must be Suffolk and Emerson students at night; they are coursing up and down Tremont in waves. Streets like Washington and Winter are definitely emptier than they ought to be.

This is definitely true. The expansion of Suffolk and Emerson into DT has clearly done much to re-enegize the area. I think it's a great thing. However, I just wish there was more normal housing being built DT to dilute their presence. As CZ has observed, the area is already ruled by students and there are two more dorms being constructed on Washington. Unless we get more non-student housing built DT, I fear it becoming another Allston. I think it would be horrible to totally cede away DTX to the colleges.

Ron Newman

03-28-2009, 11:48 PM

I wouldn't especially mind a more centrally located 'Allston' -- that would mean thrift stores, nightlife, music ...

statler

03-29-2009, 11:10 AM

Banker & Tradesman - March 30, 2009
It’s The High Rents, Stupid

By Scott Van Voorhis

Banker & Tradesman Columnist

03/30/09

Construction has been halted on the former Filene's site in Downtown Crossing.If you want to know what really ails Downtown Crossing, first take a look at some of the sky-high rents that landlords in the down-at-the-heels shopping district are charging.

No one is going to confuse Washington Street, with its bombed-out streetscape (thanks to the stalled Filene’s redevelopment), with Newbury Street.

But that is not stopping some Downtown Crossing landlords from seeking Newbury Street rents, anywhere from $80 to $150 a square foot, brokers and city officials say.

The result has been an abysmal mess, creating a gap-toothed smile of empty storefronts mixed in with fast-food joints and cell phone shops.

The real question though is why no one, outside of the mayor and a few other people at City Hall, is looking hard at this. I mean, this is not rocket science.

Maybe it’s just the dysfunctional way we take on tough issues here in the Boston areas. Downtown Crossing has been on the slide for years, but it’s only when it’s on life support that it starts to get some attention.

Even now, the debate is shaping up over whether to allow cars in the now pedestrian-only shopping district. Sure, that might help, but you have to have something more than sneaker stores and cell phone shops to make Downtown Crossing a destination worth getting in your car to visit.

And, of course, we haven’t even gotten to what needs to be done to fix this mess. I’m thinking a little eminent domain shopping spree by City Hall might be in order, but more on that later.

“No one has changed their attitudes about valuations – that is kind of a problem,” said Mark Browne, a top downtown retail broker. “It’s huge. You have very, very high prices.”

He’s right – just take a look at these numbers.

At $80 to $150 a square foot, dingy Downtown Crossing rents are not that far off from what you would see on Newbury Street, where retail space goes from $60 to $200 a square foot, Browne notes.

All would be fine if Downtown Crossing was a bustling shopping Mecca with a healthy range of retail establishments, but it’s not. Some landlords would rather hold out for sky-high rents than take something less, even if it would bring a little life to this increasingly dead – and at times dangerous – retail void, city officials contend.

They point to a parking and retail complex, which is still pushing for high rents, even as vacancies mount, as well another building near the now-gutted Filene’s complex, which has sat vacant for years, despite interest from a number of retailers.

Mayor Thomas M. Menino and his retinue dutifully trot off every year to the annual shopping centers conference in Las Vegas, talking up the city and Downtown Crossing to various retailers.

City officials say they would like nothing better than to see a Trader Joe’s or Forever21 set up shop in Downtown Crossing. Not to mention a bakery and a family-style restaurant. But many of these well-known retailers, when they get around to checking out the district, leave frustrated after banging up against a wall of inflated rent demands.

And despite all those empty storefronts, not even Filene’s Basement, which had hoped to open a temporary store during the now-stalled renovation of the Filene’s block, could find space it could afford, city officials contend.

“The leasing structure down there is pricing these great retailers out of the market,” said Kristen Keefe, a retail leasing expert at the Boston Redevelopment Authority. “Certain landlords seem to be quite willing to hold their properties vacant in order to get the top dollar.”

Of course, not everyone sees things this way.

Robert Posner, owner of the now empty Barnes & Noble building, denies he is holding out for higher rents. He won’t say what his price is either, but insists it’s nothing like the $100-plus a square foot rents cited above.

He contends he was given a low-ball offer by Filene’s Basement, and had another promising retail deal stolen out from under him by a competitor.

Still, Posner is just one of an array of small-time landlords who control Downtown Crossing – and that may be the biggest problem of all.

If the area were one giant mall property, City Hall would have just one landlord to deal with. Instead, the ownership of the district is Balkanized, with a wide array of scrappy, small-time landlords.

Get Tough, Menino

So maybe some subtle or not-so-subtle hints about the possible use of eminent domain to seize some empty retail buildings might do some good over at Downtown Crossing.

After all, there were no qualms about using eminent domain a few years ago to relocate a strip club to make way for a new condo tower near Downtown Crossing – one that, mind you, never got built.

City officials at one point were even planning on seizing a huge swath of the neighborhood around Fenway Park back in 2000 in order to make way for a crazy plan to tear down the old ballpark and replace it with a huge new stadium.

At the least, it might prompt some badly needed introspection on part of some Downtown Crossing landlords still holding out for Newbury Street rents.

commuter guy

03-29-2009, 11:13 AM

I popped into the "the Tam" on Tremont St. a while ago. It was largely filled with what appeared to be Emerson College students. There were just a few old combat zone types sprinkled in for variety. Quite a change in the clientele compared to 10 to 15 years ago.

ablarc

03-29-2009, 11:34 AM

Scottie tells it like it is.

ablarc

03-29-2009, 11:44 AM

I popped into the "the Tam" on Tremont St. a while ago. It was largely filled with what appeared to be Emerson College students ... Quite a change in the clientele compared to 10 to 15 years ago.
Do they card?

PaulC

03-29-2009, 12:00 PM

but did we learn anything new in Scottie's article.

I could be wrong on this but i believe that until fairly recently the tax rate for residential and commercial were the same. I think I read that commercial is now 5 times the residential rate. Maybe it's partially the tax rate that is driving the absurd prices. Do you pay less tax on an unoccupied store? Anyone knowledgeable on this?

commuter guy

03-29-2009, 12:14 PM

Do they card?

They don't card me, but I'm nearly 40 years old too ;-)

underground

03-29-2009, 01:06 PM

Using Eminent Domain because of empty store fronts sounds a little extreme. How about some tax incentives instead?

Also, the Tam is hands down one of the best downtown bars. My only problem with it is that I'm not in the age group it caters to anymore (college kids and long time alcoholics), so I'll usually put in the foot work to go around the corner to Jake Wirth's (the beer's better anyways).

kennedy

03-29-2009, 01:25 PM

Off-topic, but has the Black Rose been claimed by the tourists?

vanshnookenraggen

03-29-2009, 01:51 PM

I think Scott's piece is a little too eager to put the blame on "greedy landlords". It's an abysmal retail market out there and rows of empty storefronts are ubiquitous. Hell, even in the busiest parts of Manhattan there are gutted storefronts. Maybe the rents are too high but it's still "the economy, stupid".

Ron Newman

03-29-2009, 02:12 PM

I don't see empty storefronts in Davis Square or Central Square. Why should there be empty storefronts in Downtown Crossing?

ablarc

03-29-2009, 03:31 PM

^ As the man says: the rents are too high.

JohnAKeith

03-29-2009, 05:19 PM

Suffolk University won't be expanding into the neighborhood because it has agreed to a ten year moratorium on growth (at least when it comes to the number of undergrads).

A question that isn't answered in any of the articles on the neighborhood is, how many students from Emerson live in the neighborhood and how does this compare to 1, 3, 5, and ten years ago? How many lived on the flat of Beacon Hill when they were on Beacon Street, etc.?

The visibility of students may be more a result of them being comfortable "hanging out" in the neighborhood compared to in the past. This is nothing but a win-win for everyone involved.

ablarc

03-29-2009, 05:28 PM

Suffolk University ... has agreed to a ten year moratorium on growth ...
Why is this good? For anyone?

czsz

03-29-2009, 05:39 PM

Davis and Central are more than just retail districts. People live there and use their services every day. DTC and neighborhoods in New York like SoHo (which is getting gap-toothed these days) depend on people making specific trips and spending discretionary income.

And then, yeah, there's the rent issue.

I'm a bit wary of Scott's eminent domain solution because having one landlord might up the temptation to sell off all the little properties to one retailer or developer, sacrificing a more recession-proof string of stores for one large one that could bust, like the late B&N - or leading to a Filene's-style fiasco.

The visibility of students may be more a result of them being comfortable "hanging out" in the neighborhood compared to in the past. This is nothing but a win-win for everyone involved.

I think it's a bit of a deterrent for older people, who might be put off by some of the harmless but crazy hooliganism that's going down on Tremont at night - and older people are the ones with money to invest in the area. A couple decades ago, older people and students coexisted in places like Newbury St. and Kenmore, creating more lively neighborhoods for the former and instilling the latter with what seemed like more maturity. Now, it seems like these two demographics live in different worlds.

Maybe it has to do with the concentration (via dorms) of urban students, who used to spread out in apartments across the city - and get a taste of more mellow "real life" much faster. This isn't just a Boston phenomenon - I see the same behavior these kids display outside NYU residence halls - but Suffolk and Emerson dorms aren't integrated into established residential neighborhoods in the same way.

JohnAKeith

03-29-2009, 06:12 PM

It's in my district. If you want my opinion, you'll have to wait for the position paper. I warn you, it starts, "... further study is needed ...".

I'm picking up the politics thing, quickly.

ablarc

03-29-2009, 06:49 PM

It's in my district. If you want my opinion, you'll have to wait for the position paper. I warn you, it starts, "... further study is needed ...".

I'm picking up the politics thing, quickly.You want us to sopport you with that attitude?

jass

03-29-2009, 07:20 PM

The area was very busy when I went Friday at 5pm.

The pictures dont do it justice

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y17/jamesinclair/IMG_8449.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y17/jamesinclair/IMG_8450.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y17/jamesinclair/IMG_8451.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y17/jamesinclair/IMG_8452.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y17/jamesinclair/IMG_8453.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y17/jamesinclair/IMG_8455.jpg

The street must stay as a pedestrian way.

This however....

Why is all the sidewalk behind the filenes curtain?
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y17/jamesinclair/IMG_8454.jpg

briv

03-29-2009, 07:41 PM

Suffolk University won't be expanding into the neighborhood because it has agreed to a ten year moratorium on growth (at least when it comes to the number of undergrads).

According to this article, it appears that Suffolk disagrees.

From this week's Boston Courant:

Suffolk Has Only Begun
In Downtown Crossing

by Jim Cronin
courant News Writer

Suffolk University will be a vital part of
Downtown Crossing's future, according to
school officials.

While details of its planned expansion
are still unclear, John Nucci, the college's
vice president of external affairs, said the
school will be expanding its presence in
the shopping district.

"Suffolk is excited about being a part of
Downtown Crossing." and sees it as an area
with tremendous potential, Nucci said.

Between the redevelopment of the
Modern Theatre and a new dorm and retail
space it opened at 10 West Street, Suffolk
has invested $80 million in the neighborhood,
and does not plan to stop there.

"It's certainly an area we are looking to
for future expansion," Nucci added. "We
want to integrate ourselves into the neighborhood."

Although the timeframe is unclear, the
expansion could include a new dormitory
or a student center with athletic facilities, a
club and meeting space or student services.

When stalled projects get back on track,
like the hotel and retail development that
was to replace Filene's old Washington
Street but had insufficient funding,
Downtown Crossing will be an exciting
place to live, work and be a student, Nucci
said.

"Students bring spending power and
more safety." he added, highlighting the
criminal activity, like shootings and stabbings
that have brought Downtown
Crossing into the media spotlight.

To bring students to the City, Margueriie
Dennis, Suffolk's vice president of enrollment and
international programs, was hired
in 1989, a time when only commuters
attended the university. Now, about 30 percent
of the student body lives in student
housing. Additionally, when Dennis started
at Suffolk, the school had 123 international
students. Now that number is more than
1,000.

"It all begins' with students," Dennis
said. "We hope [Downtown 'Crossing] will
become a home for our students and to
help improve the landscape of that area of
the city."

kz1000ps

03-29-2009, 11:10 PM

The area was very busy when I went Friday at 5pm.

5pm on a Friday? Those people couldn't care less about DTX, they're just trying to get home.

JohnAKeith

03-30-2009, 12:00 AM

underground

03-30-2009, 10:24 AM

5pm on a Friday? Those people couldn't care less about DTX, they're just trying to get home.
Or to a movie, or a show, or a concert, or a restraraunt, or a shop, or a bar.

Bubbybu

03-30-2009, 10:54 AM

The entire hullabaloo about Downtown Crossing is the most idiotic mountain out of a molehill issue that I can remember.

First off the language people use when discussing the neighborhood makes it seem like the area is generally dead. This is one of the most heavily trafficked neighborhoods in Boston on a daily basis.

People will reply that this is only during the day and that it is dead at night but the media and those who are overly worried are constantly talking beyond what their major complaint is. Be clear as to what you think the issue is.

Do want to see additions that will add to the neighborhood beyond 7pm? Or do you want an entirely new vibe for DTX that will reinvent the neighborhood?

A lot of people on here and especially in the Globe need to stop over-dramatizing this area as though it were some sort of wasteland that people avoid while at the same time grousing that the major issue is only the lack of a viable nightlife and or high rents. Though in all fairness I don't even think the Mayor knows what he wants out of this neighborhood.

The general improvement of DTX and the expanding of DTX into the night are two separate though interlocking though not mutually dependant issues.

Rent, housing, zoning, nightlife, demographics...these all need to discussed but please just stop criss-crossing them, creating some sort of histrionic, cataclysmic situation like it is downtown Detroit.

I am sorry if I sound pissed off but this thread is just one big mess with people on here just demanding way too much.

All these unrealistic and ahistoric visions just seem to ignore the fact that this is still a very busy neighborhood and that their is no general anathema against it by the citizens of Boston.

Ron Newman

03-30-2009, 12:44 PM

I think rows of vacant storefronts are a problem that needs to be solved. Fix that, and get Filene's development going again, and everything else will fix itself.

And yes, it would make sense to put things here that are open after 7 pm, maybe even things that aren't allowed in any other zone (such as music clubs open past 2 am)

PaulC

03-30-2009, 01:54 PM

from the latest Downtown Crossing Newsletter
PUBLIC MEETING: The Continental Diner

On April 2nd at 5:30pm, Suffolk University will hold a public meeting regarding the space at 10 West Street. Downtown Crossing Partnership members are encouraged to attend. This meeting will be held at 73 Tremont Street in the 1st floor conference room. Please contact Elizabeth Leary from Suffolk University at 617.570.4862 if you have any questions about this meeting.

SAVE THE DATE: Pedestrian Zone Workshops

On April 14th from 5:30pm-7:30pm at the Old South Meeting House, and April 16th from 8:00am-10:00am at the Cathedral Church of St. Paul, the Downtown Crossing Partnership and the City of Boston will host Pedestrian Zone Workshops that are open to the public. At these meetings, plans will be formed to help improve the pedestrian zone to make it better suit the needs of neighborhood stakeholders. The same information will be discussed at both of these meetings. More information will follow in the coming weeks.

40-46 Winter Street Facade Renovation

The facade of 40-46 Winter Street have been restored to closely match their original design from the building's construction in 1865. Morris Naggar of Manhattan Clothing put architects to work redesigning the facade of this historic structure. This is one of only buildings to have survived the Great Fire of 1872, so its significance to the neighborhood can not be forgotten.

bbfen

03-30-2009, 10:27 PM

ablarc, why are you suddenly so down on me? I guess I forgot to put the smiley after my comment, it was in jest.

I think DTX, being that it is in a commercial district, is a great place for Suffolk University and Emerson College to grow.

It's interesting about the Courant article; I misread earlier comments the school made about not expanding - they meant building in Beacon Hill only, I guess. They have agreed to keep enrollment steady, though, that much I think I got right.

I hope you don't mind my presumptiveness, but I suggest you read their IMP if you haven't.

Short story, they expanded enrollment to maximum they could carry in the current property (much to the dismay of the Beacon Hill elite!), with the intent to continue property development over the life of the master plan. At that time, it will be time for a new IMPNF, and an increase in enrollment.

Couple other random thoughts not specific to Mr. Keith:

1. Councillor Ross seems to think that students dispersed in neighborhoods is the equivalent of the plague. Yet here we see that a high concentration of students quickly changes the neighborhood dynamic.

2. Don't trust the Boston Courant, Beacon Hill Times, Back Bay Sun etc. on development. They may be well-intentioned, but too often push agendas and disguise it as a news story. I sit at these meetings, and when I read what's reported, I often wonder what meeting the writer attended, and in what alternate universe.

3. Eminent Domain is the worst idea. Look what it did to my favorite strip club......a big fat nothing.

4. I have to disagree with VanS (which is unusual for me). Yes, the economy shit all over the floor. But the rents are still overpriced in an area that offers very little. If Macy's wasn't entrenched, I wouldn't be surprised to see them flee (and wouldn't be that surprised if they do anyway.) All the lease tricks in the world (see below) don't erase the fact that the entire district is overpriced by 25% or more. The last 10 years have been a rapidly-increasing spiral.

5. Is it just me, or has Scott Van Voorhis *really* stepped up the quality of the writing? His reporting is a little weak, but his writing is getting much better!

6. On his reporting. I would have liked to see some of the lease tricks that are going on. 18 months free in a 5-year short-term lease to keep rents "at market rates" is a joke. Obviously the market rate is being kept artificially inflated. Everyone knows it, why do we all play along with it?

ablarc

03-31-2009, 07:03 AM

ablarc, why are you suddenly so down on me? I guess I forgot to put the smiley after my comment, it was in jest.
I was also kidding; forgot the smiley face myself. Sorry. I'm not at all down on you.

Justin7

03-31-2009, 10:00 AM

Apologies for the laziness, but could someone repost the plans for the street renovations? Does anyone know if this is still in the works and if it has an actual date?

I agree that the empty storefronts are the main detractor here, but the streets themselves are not all that inviting. The 'street' really needs to be at the same level as the 'sidewalk' and some planters/trees/benches would help soften things up a little and perhaps persuade people to spend a little more time in the area instead of rushing through it.

statler

03-31-2009, 10:08 AM

Three no-so-easy steps to rehab DTX:

1. Reintroduce traffic
2. Reduce rents
3. Build 1 Franklin (preferably with condos intact)

Some better signage would work wonders as well.

statler

03-31-2009, 10:02 PM

Let's all just pretend this page never happened, shall we?

Three no-so-easy steps to rehab DTX:

1. Reintroduce traffic
2. Reduce rents
3. Build 1 Franklin (preferably with condos intact)

Some better signage would work wonders as well.

Ron Newman

03-31-2009, 11:03 PM

I don't see why "reintroduce traffic" would be any kind of improvement.

ablarc

04-01-2009, 06:20 AM

I think it's time to restore Washington Street to its natural condition: unrestricted traffic, asphalt roadway, concrete sidewalks with curbs, drop the idiotic "Downtown Crossing" moniker, lose the loitering police vehicles, build on the parking lots. Finally, make Macy's replace its building with one that respects its context with vertical articulation instead of horizontality.

KentXie

04-01-2009, 07:59 AM

underground

04-01-2009, 09:17 AM

I don't see why "reintroduce traffic" would be any kind of improvement.
Time for a Death and Life of Great American Cities refresher course.

TheRifleman

04-01-2009, 10:33 AM

If Hancock just got auctioned off for 660million whats the sense in building Filenes now. Does the numbers even make any sense at this point for the developer. Might need a govt fixed rate loan for 3% to get this project down.

statler

04-01-2009, 10:56 AM

TheRifleman

04-01-2009, 11:00 AM

In the short term, no. It makes no sense at all.

What Filene's needs is a developer/lender combination who is willing to take a short-to-mid-term bath in order to realize a much longer term gain.

A tough order to fill. :(

Any Developers that are leveraged in this current downturn might end up getting their equity cleaned out. Tough times.........

aws129

04-01-2009, 12:07 PM

I don't understand why people are getting fixated on the lack of automobile traffic. The pedestrianization of DC has little or nothing to do with its current mediocrity and bringing back traffic, on its own, won't do a damn thing. That said, the city should decide once and for all whether it wants DC to be a REAL pedestrian area -- with high-quality single grade paving, street furniture, and programming (besides pushcarts selling crap) -- or maintain its current in-between state. Pedestrian malls absolutely can work when done right.

(And I don't think Jane Jacobs would diagnose DC's ills as a lack of cars.)

tmac9wr

04-01-2009, 01:07 PM

When I was walking to the DTX subway station this morning, there was a boatload of police cars and emergency vehicles with their sirens going...anyone know what was going on down there?

yigal

04-01-2009, 01:11 PM

Agree. So many cities in Europe have charming pedestrian streets. Best example I can think of is Copenhagen.

I don't understand why people are getting fixated on the lack of automobile traffic. The pedestrianization of DC has little or nothing to do with its current mediocrity and bringing back traffic, on its own, won't do a damn thing. That said, the city should decide once and for all whether it wants DC to be a REAL pedestrian area -- with high-quality single grade paving, street furniture, and programming (besides pushcarts selling crap) -- or maintain its current in-between state. Pedestrian malls absolutely can work when done right.

(And I don't think Jane Jacobs would diagnose DC's ills as a lack of cars.)

Arborway

04-01-2009, 01:12 PM

Battery explosion at Macy's (http://www.bostonherald.com/news/regional/view.bg?articleid=1162701)

ablarc

04-01-2009, 01:13 PM

The continuous police presence down there creates a mood of imminent disaster.

statler

04-01-2009, 01:13 PM

^^
Boston.com
1 injured in electrical mishap in Downtown Crossing
April 1, 2009 09:01 AM Email| Comments (1)| Text size – +

By Globe Staff

A spark in a battery room released a cloud of smoke this morning at Macy's in Downtown Crossing, injuring one person, a fire official said.

Firefighters responded with a hazardous materials team to what was originally described as a battery explosion on the fourth floor, according to Steve MacDonald, a spokesman for the Boston Fire Department. Officials vented fourth, fifth, and sixth floors to release the smoke created by the spark. The situation was under control within 90 minutes.

One person took himself to Massachusetts General Hospital. Macy's was not open at the time.

ablarc

04-01-2009, 01:18 PM

MacDonald said the worker who was injured took the MBTA to Massachusetts General Hospital. MacDonald did not immediately have information on the extent of his injuries.
Couldn't wait around for the ambulance to arrive?

All those police couldn't take him?

Great police department.

Arborway

04-01-2009, 01:23 PM

The continuous police presence down there creates a mood of imminent disaster.

Given the state of the Filenes' building, perhaps "imminent" isn't the right word. Post-disaster is perhaps better.

Ron Newman

04-01-2009, 01:39 PM

The upper floors of the former Jordan Marsh are now a large data center (http://www.markleygroup.com/boston-index-page.html ). I'd guess this accident happened up there, not inside the Macy's store.

czsz

04-02-2009, 08:04 PM

I don't understand why people are getting fixated on the lack of automobile traffic.

It reeks of desperation. It frightens me because I remember the same arguments being made in Buffalo 15 years ago. "The cars will save us...the vitality of humanity is cars!"

These arguments revealed a flawed inferiority compex toward the suburbs and their culture that would be embarrassing today - and is, for people who think restoring de jure traffic to DTC (as if it's never choked with emergency vehicles and taxis) would have an impact.

underground

04-03-2009, 11:01 AM

"Jane Jacobs' arguments reveal a flawed inferiority compex toward the suburbs and their culture that would be embarrassing today - and is, for people who think restoring de jure traffic to DTC (as if it's never choked with emergency vehicles and taxis) would have an impact."

I'm not trying to be a Jacobian zealot on this topic, but I just want to point out that there are plenty of Urban Planners that archboston seems to generally hold in high regard who have made good arguments about why pedestrian malls are a bad idea. Personally, I agree with them, and I don't think that their arguments have anything at all to do with an inferiority complex towards the suburbs and I don't think it's embarrassing at all. If a good city street's supposed to have as many eyes as possible on it, why exclude a certain category of eyes just because we don't like those eyes' personal transportation choices?

statler

04-03-2009, 11:15 AM

There is also the fact that no one is arguing that cars are the fix for DTX, just part of a solution to the problem.

Also the suburban jealousy argument is nonsense. Nobody is recommending reconfiguring Washington St to accommodate more cars (widening to accommodate extra lanes, parking lots). Just restore it back to its original configuration.
Think Hanover St in the N.End. The cars aren't the reason for it's vibrancy, but they help add to it.

Ron Newman

04-03-2009, 11:34 AM

I lived in Santa Monica for five years, and their Third Street pedestrian mall is a smashing success. It's about the same size as Downtown Crossing's. The one in Burlington, VT looked pretty good when I visited it, too.

commuter guy

04-03-2009, 11:54 AM

Ron,

Refresh my memory, all the perpendicular side streets cut through the Santa Monica ped mall right? Downtown Crossing, on the other hand, really changes a lot of auto transportation patterns resulting in diminished vitality. Also the demographics of the neighborhood are a bit different. Santa Monica is a pretty wealthy enclave relative to middle of the road Downtown Crossing.

I also wonder if the success of the mall in Santa Monica is partially attributable to its relative uniquess as a walkable commericial district within the L.A. area. Central Boston has many walkable areas so the ped zone within Downtown Crossing may not be viewed with the same level of affection as in L.A.

Ron Newman

04-03-2009, 11:59 AM

Yes, at least when I was there, two perpendicular streets (Santa Monica Blvd. and Arizona Ave.) crossed the mall and were open to traffic. Santa Monica may be somewhat above average in income, but it's no South Pasadena or Beverly Hills.

ablarc

04-03-2009, 12:00 PM

Diff'rent strokes for diff'rent folks.

czsz

04-03-2009, 07:18 PM

Cars cross the DTC mall at many points; this is not a point of difference with Santa Monica.

I raised the idea of "suburban jealousy" because these "bring in the cars" arguments started in Buffalo when people couldn't stop believing that the suburbs were inherently more successful - because of the car. There follows this sort of knee-jerk argument that the "natural" state of any human environment implies free-flowing traffic, and that this is necessary (though not sufficient) for success.

It seems particularly absurd in the context of DTC which would be one of the most unpleasant neighborhoods of Boston to drive through, formal pedestrian mall or not.

commuter guy

04-03-2009, 10:28 PM

Cars cross the DTC mall at many points; this is not a point of difference with Santa Monica.

Regardless of the merits of reintroducing cars, general car traffic is prohibited to cross through DTC via Franklin/Bromfield Streets and Winter/Summer Streets. This is different than Santa Monica or the old State Street mall in Chicago. Also the Macy's/Lafeyette Place Development superblock resulted in further disruption of road travel patterns.

tobyjug

04-09-2009, 03:05 PM

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh109/tobyjug_2008/L1120349.jpg

Is it true that Sleepy's is going to all its landlords to cram down its rents?

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh109/tobyjug_2008/L1120351.jpg

If so, this dog might be put to sleep!

statler

04-09-2009, 03:09 PM

Aww...I'm going to miss the Rodger's sign.

At least they sorta kept it.

Ron Newman

04-09-2009, 03:11 PM

Mattress Discounters failed in Downtown Crossing. Is Sleepy's sure they can succeed where their competitor floundered?

tobyjug

04-09-2009, 03:15 PM

My guess is that you will never see this project "built".

TheRifleman

04-09-2009, 03:20 PM

Developers, Mayor, BRA all get an F for Failure and poor planning. Can we elect a new MAYOR this guy is an IDIOT.

statler

04-09-2009, 03:22 PM

I assume they will be moving from their Franklin St location if they move.

That's fine if the do. That was bad location for mattress shop.

underground

04-09-2009, 04:27 PM

Mattress Discounters failed in Downtown Crossing. Is Sleepy's sure they can succeed where their competitor floundered?

They're just moving from the spot around the corner that they've been in for years. I bought my last mattress there.

BosDevelop

04-09-2009, 04:31 PM

They're just moving from the spot around the corner that they've been in for years. I bought my last mattress there.

Sleepy's has been on Franklin street for years? I could have sworn that place opened in that location 18 months ago at most. I walk by every day to and from the gym and I can count on one hand the times I have seen customers in the store.

tobyjug

04-09-2009, 04:42 PM

It was a cheapo book store for a long time. Then vacant. I forget how long Sleepy has been there.

BosDevelop

04-09-2009, 04:43 PM

It was a cheapo book store for a long time. Then vacant. I forget how long Sleepy has been there.

yes, "Buck a Book" or something like that. I'd be shocked if Sleepy's has been in that location for more than 2 years.

Ron Newman

04-09-2009, 04:58 PM

Before Buck a Book, it was Lauriat's -- the flagship store of what was once a proud local bookstore chain.

Ron Newman

04-09-2009, 05:25 PM

Ultra Diamonds files Chapter 11 (http://www.nationaljewelernetwork.com/njn/content_display/majors/financial-reporting/e3ie9cf6d4fe9496d05ae9e7e0dd9f3c9c8)

(they unfortunately occupy the former Old Corner Bookstore building at School and Washington streets)

kennedy

04-09-2009, 06:46 PM

It's bound to get darker before the dawn. Everyone is talking about stimulus' and ending the recession in a year or so, but we keep seeing local and national businesses fail, with no regard to size or industry. It's time for everyone to hunker down, buy cheap coffee, and use that one, free resource we have to ensure a strong future-our brains.

Don't they say that a great deal of the world's greatest innovations happen during economic downtimes?

Maybe in 10 years, a shop selling environmentally-friendly synthetic diamonds will take the spot.

czsz

04-09-2009, 07:54 PM

I just wish it were a bookstore again.

Oh, wait. Books aren't innovative or environmentally friendly.

Fuck.

Well, maybe Kunstler's right and society will collapse to the point at which living in a neighborhood as walkable as DTC will make sense to many again. As long as we get some slaves to operate the elevator winches.

underground

04-10-2009, 09:46 AM

I'm not sure how long Sleepy's goes back in that location, but I bought my mattress there over 2 years ago, at which point they'd been in there for a while. In any case, they've managed to hold in DTX for a while, so I'm not sure how moving around the corner will have a determent to their sales. Especially since they're moving into a better location.

czsz

04-10-2009, 07:44 PM

Crossing fingers
A long-time Downtown Crossing shopkeeper sees the neighborhood’s silver lining

When Red Sox World Series trophies need buffing, third-generation Downtown Crossing silversmith Mike Davis gets the phone call. The same goes for when Patriots nick Super Bowl trophies with their bulbous bling, or when Paul Revere’s teapot needs some TLC, or when Bob Vila, also a customer, has tarnished goods. Today, Davis is polishing three sets of ornate flatware for a woman who will soon pass the heirlooms to her about-to-wed granddaughter. Whether they’re careless celebrities or cautious civilians, Bostonians surrender their trust and treasures into Davis’s charcoal hands.

As silversmiths go, Davis is practically the last tradesman standing. His workshop at 36 Bromfield Street is a throwback to the days when Boston was regarded as a hub of the storied American silver industry. An open-shaft steel-cage elevator takes visitors from the beaten first-floor hallway to the fifth-floor Davis Silver Company, the store his late grandfather John Davis founded in 1945. There’s no hot-water line, so Davis keeps a cauldron steaming on the exposed pipes. There’s no computer, either, so Davis uses hand-written invoices to keep track of the trophies, spoons, and teapots scattered on his dusty wooden shelves.

John, his grandfather, opened the shop after leaving Tuttle Silver, where he started as a 12 year old and worked his way from polisher to foreman. When Tuttle moved from Southie to Connecticut, John refused to relocate, and instead brought his bench to Bromfield. There, he eventually taught his son, Ed, who ran the business until retiring 12 years ago, turning the operation over to Davis, his son. The cement walls, splintered window frames, and even the rusty air are essentially the same as they were the day John opened shop.

“I don’t remember when I didn’t work here,” says Davis, 55, who has run a full-time solo operation since 1996. “I’ve been coming to this place since I was at least five years old.”

It would be understandable if Davis — whose shop has outlived the refugee Russian tailors who filled 36 Bromfield in the ’50s, as well as most lawyers and accountants who rented in the ’70s, and the nonprofits that got priced out in the ’90s — was reluctant to welcome the glossy, near-billion-dollar projects that pols, planners, and mega-corporate interests have slated for his ancestral soldering grounds. But despite being a near-anachronism in Downtown Crossing as it transitions into the 21st century, Davis is a surprising ally of change. Whether they’re developed with mirrored skyscrapers or magnificent prewar paragons, Davis has the same ideal for every lot from Temple Place to School Street: the buildings should be accessible, occupied, and bustling with shoppers.

The future of Downtown Crossing has become a hot potato in the embryonic 2010 mayoral race, as all three declared candidates have criticized perpetual-but-so-far-unannounced contender Mayor Tom Menino for his handling of the $700 million Filene’s project, which promised a hybrid hotel-retail-residence complex. That effort, which is central to the Downtown Crossing revitalization process, but has so far amounted to a universally scorned square-block hole in the ground, was suspended in November due to financial troubles after five months of demolition. Candidate and city councilor Sam Yoon called the halted project a “glaring failure”; fellow candidate and councilor Michael Flaherty blasted Hizzoner for letting control fall under the authority of — hold your nose — a New York–based company. Menino has defended himself by saying that Filene’s is a victim of the international economic tsunami, plain and simple.

Either way, Downtown Crossing has become a symbol of urban overreaching, and the gaping pit at its heart off Washington Street — the site of two partially demolished buildings (one of which was the flagship Filene’s building, a historic landmark) — has become a metaphorical vortex that even in good times blemishes the city, and in bad times creates conditions for further blight.

Parking at the end of the tunnel
The view from Davis Silver’s fifth-floor windows used to have a clear line of sight to Old City Hall. These days, he faces 45 Province Street — a three-years-in-the-making, pool-topped, 32-story bourgeois monument that will offer a “celebrity chef” restaurant and 150 luxury condo units. He doesn’t expect that many old-money families laden with antique silver will move into the sleek glass tower, but Davis does anticipate residual benefits from the aesthetic improvement nonetheless — even if construction was supposed to wrap in 2008. For one, its underground parking facilities could be a boon, since the new building replaced what was the largest garage in the area, and as such has inconvenienced customers for three years and counting.

“This was already a hard area to navigate,” says Davis, “and without that garage, there’s really nowhere to park. But it’s not just that — [merchants] around here would agree that Filene’s being gone is the biggest problem. It used to be that women would drive in, see me, see their jeweler, maybe have lunch, and go shopping. But without Filene’s, a lot of the time people just call me from downstairs so I can meet them in their cars.”

Davis regularly chats with fellow small-business owners, and says most believe that Downtown Crossing needs more commerce — and some sort of rent stabilization — more than it needs proper streets to replace the current pedestrian walkways, as many critics have recently alleged.

While he closely follows media coverage of Downtown Crossing, Davis doesn’t over-think his shop’s immediate future. Whether or not his grandchildren decide to learn his trade — which he’s not exactly pushing — the only thing that can ultimately move him is the money. He’s been able to survive despite the visual blights, constant bulldozing, and financial crisis, but Davis can only take so much. “My rent has tripled in the last 12 years,” he says, “and if rents go way up again, I won’t be staying.”

Still, his last days downtown don’t seem to be looming.

“I guess the good part is that even if something does happen, it will be a while,” Davis says as he explains the history behind his shop’s flagship attraction — a massive, ostentatious brass toucan that was abandoned by a onetime walk-in customer in 1997. “Hopefully, if the owner ever comes to retrieve this thing, I’ll be here to give it back to her.”

http://thephoenix.com/Boston/Life/79793-Crossing-fingers/

JohnAKeith

04-10-2009, 09:55 PM

You lost me at "rent stabilization".

Lurker

04-11-2009, 10:04 AM

Rent stabilization = eventually a building is so neglected from unprofitable it has 'an unexplainable fire' at 3am with the sprinkler pump broken and all the stand pipes drilled full of holes.

Enacting that would make all the slumlord speculators in vein on the Levin family incapable of selling their derelict messes to anyone. No legitimate landlord looking to make a profit renting space nor is a developer going to want to spend millions on new construction for something that will ultimately wind up being less profitable than space elsewhere.

Opening the streets to traffic, fixing the damn sidewalks which are half asphalt, and getting rid of the filthy brick would be a start.

Ron Newman

04-11-2009, 10:39 AM

In the very long term, rent 'stabilization' may have that effect, but in the short term, it gets the retail vacancies filled which is what the district needs right now. Perhaps a fixed term of 'stabilization' is worth trying.

underground

04-11-2009, 11:49 AM

There have been so many studies about what a bad idea rent stabilization is, it's hard to believe anyone still talks about it. If you want lower rents, build more. It's as simple as that.

statler

04-11-2009, 11:55 AM

I'm not going to argue in favor of rent stabilization, but the current vacancy's and concurrent high rents in DTX pretty much disprove that.

Too many economists assume that the market will always act rationally, forgetting that the market is controlled by humans, who can and often do, behave irrationally.

ablarc

04-11-2009, 11:58 AM

The irrational behavior is holding out for high rents in a collapsed economy and a distressed area.

tobyjug

04-11-2009, 12:16 PM

This is exactly the problem. The "Barnes and Noble" space and the landlord's unwillingness to commit to a "unprofitable short term lease" for Filene's Basement is Exhibit A for the proposition that rent expectations have been and are unrealistic. It also hurts that individuals, for example Druker, own large chunks of the area. This creates a monopolistic attitude that is slow to respond on the downside.

JohnAKeith

04-11-2009, 12:28 PM

True. I think we see the same thing near Penn Station in NYC. Vornado Trust owns big chunks of land in the neighborhood made up of retail and office spaces that stand empty, awaiting the day that the Post Office is converted into a new mass transit station and it can command higher rents and/or build new buildings.

ablarc

04-12-2009, 07:19 AM

^ Waiting for Godot.

Lurker

04-12-2009, 10:40 AM

Ever consider that maybe those landlords have high rents because they don't want to deal with tenants and prefer to be able to sell a conveniently vacant building to developers or investors?

Many of the owners of property around Downtown Crossing bought in the late 1970s when everything was going down hill in the shopping district but large scale developments were being executed in the city. These people have been sitting on properties for thirty years hoping someone is going to hand them the lottery to build the next One Federal.

czsz

04-12-2009, 03:44 PM

tobyjug

04-12-2009, 09:19 PM

Well, yes, that is why Drucker doesn't do anything with the "Gold's Gym " moderne lavatory on the corner of Arch and Summer. He hopes someday he'll get the jump when the church decides to develop a skyscraper at St. Anthony's Shrine next door.

underground

04-13-2009, 10:54 AM

So if we decide that we're going to have a sort of "Jump Start the Area Rent Subsidization" Program, what would it look like and how would it function? Who tells the land lord what to charge? Who determines the appropriate rent? Will businesses actually participate in the program and move in? Who determines when the "Jump Start" program isn't needed anymore? After the "Jump Start" is over, will general rents actually be lower? If they're not, what happens to the business that accepted the subsidized rent? Will they be able to pay the higher rents? Are we going to have to institute yet another program? If we do need another program, haven't we de facto instituted rent subsidies ?

Personally, I don't think that it's a sustainable plan. It creates so many variables, not just for the city government that institutes the plan, but for land lords holding properties in the area and the businesses who would potentially move in. It's predicated on the idea that businesses that move in under the program will be able to stay after it's phased out, either because they'll be able to afford higher rents or because the program will lower rents in the area. I'm not sure that either of those are likely out comes.

commuter guy

05-13-2009, 11:23 AM

FYI - this Friday at 1:00 p.m. on WBUR 90.9 FM's "Radio Boston" the topic is Downtown Crossing. Listen on the radio or go the web site: http://www.radioboston.org/

kennedy

05-13-2009, 05:42 PM

Personally, I don't think that it's a sustainable plan.

I agree. There must be a more viable (affordable) solution.

CityMouse

05-14-2009, 01:51 PM

The Marliave opened a coffee and pastry shop on their first floor today (the area that is the oyster bar in the evenings). They are giving free patries to anyone who says they are on their e-mail list who orders a drink.

tobyjug

05-15-2009, 12:59 PM

I think I see the future of DTX...a corridor lined with billboards.

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh109/tobyjug_2008/L1120664.jpg

P.S. How's that "long term lease" deal working out, pal?

briv

05-15-2009, 03:28 PM

FYI - this Friday at 1:00 p.m. on WBUR 90.9 FM's "Radio Boston" the topic is Downtown Crossing. Listen on the radio or go the web site: http://www.radioboston.org/

Anyone listen to this? What did you think?

If you missed it, you could listen to the podcast, which should be posted later today.

commuter guy

05-15-2009, 04:56 PM

^
Nothing too earth shattering on the program, here are some points discussed:

Hynes said no financing in the foreseeable future for the Filenes project. Their going to move the fence back to reopen the ever so vital "shoppers park". They plan to throw some pants and pushcart vendors in there.

They discussed the new restaurant Bina Osteria and an adjoining upscale grocery which I believe is located in the Millenium Tower complex.

Misc. fact - Pedestrian count greater than 200k a day and over 6,000 residents in DTX

Owner of Brattle Book Store interviewed - he said shopping traffic has slightly dipped, but the area has improved overall with the increased presence of local colleges and restaurants.

A small time developer by the name of "Neil" called in and said his firm has converted a handful of older buildings to residential in the area. He was a resident for a number of years as well. In his opinion, the city seems to have lack of direction for the area. City should do more to encourage small scale development/renovations. This would increase population quicker. City has focused on large scale developements

Suffolk 83

05-15-2009, 04:56 PM

I think I see the future of DTX...a corridor lined with billboards.

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh109/tobyjug_2008/L1120664.jpg

P.S. How's that "long term lease" deal working out, pal?

I bet if they allowed more strip clubs there they'd pay their taxes.

tobyjug

05-15-2009, 05:27 PM

Poll tax?

Beton Brut

05-15-2009, 05:47 PM

Stripper Poll Tax?

briv

05-15-2009, 06:52 PM

Misc. fact - ...over 6,000 residents in DTX

Dubious. Show me where 6k people live in DTX.

vanshnookenraggen

05-16-2009, 04:44 AM

Im sure it is a liberal definition of Downtown Crossing.

FrankG

05-16-2009, 08:57 AM

About a thousand people live in the Devonshire (http://devonshireboston.com/). How many will be living in 45 Province?

BarbaricManchurian

05-16-2009, 11:22 AM

commuter guy

05-16-2009, 03:03 PM

6,000 seems high to me too. Possibly btwn Tremont on the Common, the building next Tremont on the Common, the Devonshire etc. maybe you get more people down there than you think. Also if they're liberal with the boundaries - the Ritz Condos, the Avalon in the combat zone etc. Maybe they count the homeless shelters and college dorms: St. Francis on Boylston, Emerson Dorms, the Veterans Shelter on Court st (part of which is permanent housing).

riffgo

05-16-2009, 04:51 PM

Six thousand seems about right to me. I even read that figure somewhere in the not-too-distant past.

JohnAKeith

05-16-2009, 08:57 PM

The DTX neighborhood association has been the source of the 6,000 residents figure. It might be "rounded up". There are around 4,663 registered voters in the 02111 ZIP code which includes the properties facing the Common as well as Archstone Boston and much of Chinatown in addition to the properties along Washington Street. Add in a bunch of transient renters and the corporate folks at One Devonshire and maybe you can reach 6,000.

Ron Newman

05-16-2009, 10:00 PM

Does that number include Emerson and Suffolk students?

bbfen

05-16-2009, 11:27 PM

Does that number include Emerson and Suffolk students?

Only if they're registered voters.

Edit to add: Census Bureau suggests +/- 30% of population is not registered to vote.

Also, Ron, you should check out Princeton Review for more information on enrollment at Emerson (3,644 undergrad) and Suffolk (5,809 undergrad).

Or, their respective websites, since they're required to post enrollment information as part of their IMP status with the BRA/CoB.

Ron Newman

05-17-2009, 12:12 AM

Thanks. Do you mean "registered to vote in Boston" ? (As opposed to their home states?)

jass

05-17-2009, 12:27 AM

Is registering to vote really necessary to be counted?

A semi-permanent (9 month) mailing address isnt enough?

Suffolk 83

05-17-2009, 12:38 AM

Wow, I thought that was a office building, based on its architecture. Well, now I know, it's a great example of vertical residential Brutalism. It makes such a defining presence when you're walking down Washington Street, it just looks so good.

One Devonshire has balconies and no first floor: its a garage. It's always been a residential building.

Boston02124

05-17-2009, 03:02 AM

I thought the lower half was office space,I once had a friend who lived on the 36th floor the views and the apt was nice the windows sucked

FrankG

05-17-2009, 09:14 AM

That's right, the first dozen (or so) floors are offices, and the rest are apartments.

I thought the lower half was office space,I once had a friend who lived on the 36th floor the views and the apt was nice the windows sucked

bbfen

05-17-2009, 11:15 AM

Is registering to vote really necessary to be counted?

A semi-permanent (9 month) mailing address isnt enough?

Registered voter addresses are a consistent way for cities to gauge population. I think Suffolk Cty is unusual in its reliance of the semi-permanent mailing address ("students") as a crutch for jury duty (irregardless of DL address and registered voter status).

Most cities use combined list of registered voters and driver license addresses.

I was really angry to be called for jury duty when I was in college (and not a full-time resident in Suffolk Cty). It was clear to me that college students were (and I think still are) second-class, transient squatters in Boston. Still I was supposed to be cheery about my civic duty when I'm pulled out of class for two days to sit around until the case was dismissed.

tobyjug

05-17-2009, 11:23 AM

That's right, the first dozen (or so) floors are offices, and the rest are apartments.

The Sky Club is (or was) at the top. The city's most sybaritic spot was the hot tub overlooking the Common and the Back Bay.

BarbaricManchurian

05-17-2009, 11:28 AM

Registered voter addresses are a consistent way for cities to gauge population. I think Suffolk Cty is unusual in its reliance of the semi-permanent mailing address ("students") as a crutch for jury duty (irregardless of DL address and registered voter status).

Most cities use combined list of registered voters and driver license addresses.

I was really angry to be called for jury duty when I was in college (and not a full-time resident in Suffolk Cty). It was clear to me that college students were (and I think still are) second-class, transient squatters in Boston. Still I was supposed to be cheery about my civic duty when I'm pulled out of class for two days to sit around until the case was dismissed.

Over half of Suffolk County residents don't even bother showing up for jury duty, maybe you should think about joining them :D. One reason that they seem like they're picking on college students is that no one else shows up, and therefore, there's frequently a jury shortage, despite Suffolk County's large population!

tobyjug

05-27-2009, 02:07 PM

sleeps with the fish now...

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh109/tobyjug_2008/L1120753.jpg

Ron Newman

05-27-2009, 03:19 PM

This is the new location for Sleepy's, right? (But I don't see their sign in the photo)

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kz1000ps

05-31-2009, 01:34 PM

Pack up these pedestrian playpens

Times Square, Downtown Crossing need vehicular traffic to thrive
By Sam Allis
Globe Columnist / May 31, 2009

New Yorkers woke up last Sunday to a Memorial Day surprise. Times Square, the epicenter of the known universe, was closed to vehicular traffic. For an early bird out that morning for coffee and the papers, it must have looked like Mongolia.

Mayor Michael Bloomberg closed Broadway from 47th down to 42d Street, and 35th to 33d at Herald Square, to provide unique new pedestrian space and, I don't get this part, ease midtown traffic flow. Gone suddenly was the loud, dissonant Manhattan symphony of beeps and horns and epithets hurled with uncommon artistry. Gone too was the urban aroma of exhaust and the overcrowded square's sidewalks.

Gone, in short, were the storied kinetics that define the square that defines the city.

What those of us interested parties from afar have seen through online video and photo galleries this week is a strange landscape located somewhere between emptiness and tranquility. We can see stretches of bald asphalt, and a lot of people sprawled alone in cheap lawn chairs contemplating their navels and watching the world go 'round. There are the snoozers, the laptop people, the eaters of takeout breakfasts and lunches. Singletons and couples roam the new area, testing its effect on their senses.

Most of those interviewed on video were ecstatic about the closure. Now they have a huge new city playground, and it's not just another sad piece of turf penned in by a chain-link fence. They have Times Square. This is to be the ultimate asphalt park amid the backdrop of the most famous intersection in the world. Make it and people will come.

At least some. Drivers are livid at the closure, and who can blame them? Their lives instantly went from bad to worse. Contemplate a midtown run at rush hour around the square if you're heading north or south. Vaya con Dios.

We heard interviews with some cabbies who were unamused. These were the calmer ones who issued invective-free denunciations. But we know the rest of them - truck drivers and pedicab drivers, too - must have unloaded some gloriously unprintable street poetry. All in all, I'm liking what's shaping up to be a rumble between the drivers and the mayor.

I dwell on the change at Times Square because it makes me think of Downtown Crossing here in Boston. In 1978, the city transformed the madhouse around the intersection of Washington and Summer Streets into a traffic-free zone, with a few exceptions. It was to be an urban Eden for pedestrians, people of all stripes who could catch their breath, grab a sandwich, and take in a bit of the city before lumbering off to their next appointment. It made perfect sense. It had to. It was the best thinking du jour of our urban planners.

Downtown Crossing, as we all know, has been an abject failure. The vitality of the place was sapped with the departure of cars. It suddenly lacked the density provided by auto traffic to give it spine. There have also been chronic problems with crime. Until recently, there had been a mounted police officer on his horse for years at Washington and Summer. The store mix is retrograde. The final indignity occurred last November, when construction of a huge development play in the Filene's block was halted because funding dried up.

But the larger point is that well-intentioned pedestrian playpens can and do backfire. Like politics, each one comes with its own local calculus. The bottom line is that cities need density. That's what they're all about. If you don't like density, go live in Dunstable. For traffic relief, there are parks. New York has Central Park nearby. Boston has the Common a long block away.

So I say to Mayor Tom Menino: Tommy, do the right thing. Bring back the cars. Save Downtown Crossing. We've learned the hard way that the pedestrian thing doesn't work there.

And to Bloomberg from an admirer: Mikey, don't do it. Times Square thrives off its sound and light show, not an inert herd in lawn chairs. It needs its chaos. The good news is the closure is an experiment through the end of the year and then will be evaluated. Look, I long for creative city government that tries a million ideas to see what works, but, please, let's put this thing in the rear-view mirror. The a priori assumption that a pedestrian mall will improve urban life needs a good looking at.

-- there's three more paragraphs to this piece, but they deal with that zany "Clark Rockefeller" guy so I'm leaving it out --

Link (http://www.boston.com/news/local/massachusetts/articles/2009/05/31/pack_up_pedestrian_playpens_downtown_crossing_time s_square_need_auto_traffic/)

briv

06-01-2009, 02:37 PM

I think they should re-open DTX to traffic, at least as an experiment. What harm could it possibly do? At this point there's really nothing left to lose. If it doesn't work out, simply re-close it.

Although, I don't know how much good anything would do to rejuvenate the area as long as it exists in it's current disastrous state.

aws129

06-01-2009, 08:27 PM

Why the hell have Globe writers been harping on about Downtown Crossing's lack of cars as if it was a major handicap?!

Downtown Crossing's failure has nothing to do with its pedestrianization. As is, there a more than enough people going through the area to make it lively. Pedestrian spaces have worked wonderfully all over the world and it will work wonderfully here too if the city ever hits upon the right mix of uses: high end and low end retail, daytime and nighttime businesses, work and entertainment. There just isn't enough there right now to make Downtown Crossing a destination.

PaulC

06-01-2009, 08:51 PM

ya I know it never happend to you so therefore it mustn't be true.
Street crime creeps up Hill

By Jessica Fargen and Alysis Richardson
Saturday, May 30, 2009 - Updated 2d 13h ago

Beacon Hill urbanites are being beset by roving bands of high school street thugs who may be branching out from their regular Downtown Crossing haunt to steal iPhones and Sidekicks from people in the heart of the picturesque neighborhood, police say.

The threat of cell phone snatches in the brick-paved, gas-lit enclave has residents nervous and watching their backs in what is considered one of the city’s safest neighborhoods.

“When I’m walking on Cambridge Street at night I keep my eye open because it doesn’t feel safe,” said James Curry, 64, a retiree. “I’ll definitely keep my eye out and walk really fast if I feel like I’m in danger.”

Added resident Megen Dennis, 28: “Lately I walk with a purpose and hide my phone or iPod in my bag. I’m more aware of what’s around me.”

There have been four robberies and one larceny so far this year, down from eight robberies last year, said Police Capt. Bernard O’Rourke, who commands District A-1 and spoke at a community meeting held Thursday in response to the recent robberies.

But robberies this year are more concerning because they have been in the heart of Beacon Hill on toney streets like Mount Vernon, rather than on the fringes near Boston Common, he said. And the suspects, mostly teens, act in groups.

He urged residents to call 911 if they see suspicious groups. Police have also stepped up patrols.

He said it’s unclear if a loose-knit high school group called the Most Violent Prophet has moved from Downtown Crossing to Beacon Hill to grab the expensive, status-symbol gizmos.

City Council President Mike Ross, who used to live on Beacon Hill, advised residents to pay attention while they walk and talk.

“People, they need to be more aware of their surroundings,” Ross said. “Oftentimes people get lost in these devices.”
http://www.bostonherald.com/news/regional/view.bg?articleid=1175674

KentXie

06-01-2009, 09:56 PM

Start putting some cameras in DTX?

kennedy

06-01-2009, 11:14 PM

Damn teenagers...

JohnAKeith

06-02-2009, 09:25 AM

Sleazy times in Combat Zone recalled in ‘Lovers, Muggers & Thieves’ (http://bostonherald.com/entertainment/books/view/2009_06_02_The_XXX_files:_Sleazy_times_in_Combat_Z one_recalled_in_%E2%80%98Lovers__Muggers___Thieves _/srvc=home&position=2)
By Michael Marotta, Boston Herald

“That’s where you’ll find me, along with lovers, fuggers and thieves,” the Standells sang about Boston in their 1966 classic, “Dirty Water,” before adding, “Aw, but they’re cool people.”

Author Jonathan Tudan got to experience the cool people - and the troublemakers - up close and personal.

In 1969, Tudan, then 18, managed a six-story flophouse on Tremont Street in what used to be known as the Combat Zone, the adult entertainment area centered on Washington Street between Boylston and Kneeland streets. The area got its name from a series of articles that ran in Boston’s Record-American newspaper in the ’60s..

Tudan, who lived and worked at the flophouse for nine months while he was a student at Wentworth Institute,revisits the area’s checkered past in his coming-of-age book, “Lovers, Muggers & Thieves: A Boston Memoir” (Hawk Nest, $17.95).

“People have stories and tend to romanticize it,” he said last week during a nostalgic return to the Zone. “I thought it was dirty and gritty. I never thought it was romantic.”

“Lovers, Muggers & Thieves” reads like a Hollywood story. Tudan goes back to a time when hookers, musicians, back-alley johns and seedy characters roamed dangerous downtown streets.

“This was like glitter at night,” Tudan said outside the former home of the Normandy Lounge on the corner of Washington and Avery streets, now home to the upscale Leather Days furniture store.

The Normandy was one of many clubs - Jerome’s, the Intermission, the Sugar Shack, the Four Corners Lounge - that filled the area along with strip clubs, peep shows and XXX-rated bookstores.

“It was very colorful - the outfits the girls were wearing, and the guys all looked like peacocks,” Tudan said. “It was noisy. All the windows were open and music was coming out from the clubs. You got a charge. You got a sense you were going to have fun.”

But underneath the glitter was a grim, violent reality. From his sixth floor fire escape, Tudan watched a man get gunned down in the alley on LaGrange Street. He was nearby on the March night in 1969 when policeman Frank “Bucky” Johnson was gunned down trying to stop a gunfight at the Tam, which is still open.

“Was it dangerous?,” Tudan said. “I think so. You were scared. When I saw a guy get shot, and after the cop got killed, I asked myself, ‘What am I doing here?’ ”

Forty years after his stint renting rooms for $30 a week to hookers, boozers and other shady characters, the area bares little resemblance to Tudan’s old haunt.

The seedy underground hustle of the Combat Zone is gone, replaced by the visible bustle of Chinatown and high-rise apartments like Washington Street’s massive Archstone Boston Common luxury residences, which stands where the Downtown Lounge once held devious court.

“I felt like this was my neighborhood,” said Tudan wistfully. Now based in Los Angeles, the former flophouse keeper has moved on to working as an architect on projects including the restoration of the State House on Beacon Hill.

“You knew people,” he recalled. “You knew girls, bartenders and musicians. As time went on it felt safer and safer. You started to get comfortable. And when you get comfortable, that’s when you get into trouble.”

- mmarotta@bostonherald.com

Boston02124

06-02-2009, 09:56 AM

I plan on getting this book as I have a lot of fond memories of the old combat zone,we really should have a red light distric back in Boston!

vanshnookenraggen

06-02-2009, 12:37 PM

tobyjug

07-01-2009, 11:31 AM

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh109/tobyjug_2008/L1130360.jpg

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh109/tobyjug_2008/L1130362.jpg

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh109/tobyjug_2008/L1130361.jpg

Riverworks

07-01-2009, 01:03 PM

Sam Allis doesn't know what the hell he is talking about. The new pedestrain plazas in Times Sq are nothing like DTX. They only closed off Broadway, not 7th Ave and not any of the cross streets. There is plenty of traffic but now there is less, as well as more space for people. That is the problem with DTX and many ped-only zones, they need the right mix of pedestrains and traffic to work.

Van speaks the truth. Traffic still flows through these essential city squares but also gives pedestrians some breathing room. They're hardly "playpens", as Allis describes, but instead more like bits of urban fabric freed up for pedestrian use. They're street triangles, pieces figureground, taken back by the pedestrian. It's great feeling actually - knowing you're walking on a street intended for automotive use and yet some higher power has forced them to flow around you. It's an amazing way to re-imagine and take back our cities.

Granted there are some similarities, the primary difference is that Times Square and Herald Square have already determined themselves as destinations and DTX has yet to discover itself. I agree with Allis. Boston needs to re-open DTX to vehicular traffic so it can again be seen as the hustling and bustling center city it once was. I would assume that with all the new traffic crime would be drastically reduced, since there are less opportunities to hide and more to be seen.

On that note, I think I'll sit out in Herald Square today and enjoy my lunch :)

cden4

07-01-2009, 01:09 PM

I've been out in DTX in the past few weeks around lunchtime, and I must say it IS quite active with people. There have been Art Fridays, where artists have booths set up along Summer St to sell their wares. Some tables and chairs were put out there as well, which were quite well used. This month, they're having Jazz in July with live music from 12-2 on Summer St on Wednesdays and at Readers Park/Borders on Fridays. The Readers Park is often quite busy even when there isn't something programmed happening there. The dead zone is really along Washington St where the stalled Filenes development is. There are no stores on one side of the street, and on the other side is the eternally-closed former Barnes and Noble. The other parts of DTX seem to be quite bustling.

Some photos from June 12 around 3 pm or so:

Art Fridays
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2577/3678302157_344ae0265b.jpg?v=0

Art Fridays
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2656/3679116568_563b9be3a1.jpg?v=0

Summer St at Washington St
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2613/3678303655_455aca7420.jpg?v=0

Readers' Park
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3630/3679119406_db4cd8a4bb.jpg?v=0

Washington St -- note the trucks that shouldn't be there
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2451/3679122196_6177e534b1.jpg?v=0

Washington St
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2605/3679123086_837dd9b967.jpg?v=0

Riverworks

07-01-2009, 01:36 PM

I feel like the area is seasonal though. Spring and Summer are great seasons packed with tourists, sightseers and people willing to give the DTX retail experience a chance. Other than that, Downtown Crossings operates between the hours of 7am and 9pm ... and that's mostly because of people who work around the area and do errands on their breaks or stay late at work. Re-introducing automotive traffic would bring a constant energy that wouldn't leave the neighborhood feeling dull and lifeless during the off hours...

Justin7

07-01-2009, 02:10 PM

DTX desperately needs some planters/trees.

BostonYoureMyHome

07-01-2009, 03:41 PM

^^Great point...also, I think the lack of dining (in the immediate DTX area, I know there are plenty of vendors there in the day and surrounding area dining) contributes to this nighttime shutdown. The Hyatt, Herreras, Mantra...not really must have dining experiences. Lastly, not the best quality selection in terms of retail.

CityMouse

07-01-2009, 04:38 PM

You raise a good point about dining. Even of the restaurants that are open in the evening (Marliave, Bina, Blu), the Marliave is the only one that is open in the afternoon on weekends. I think anyone coming in from the burbs to shop on a Saturday is going to want a nice place to eat, preferably with outdoor seating.

Ron Newman

07-02-2009, 08:11 AM

bbfen

07-02-2009, 08:28 AM

From today's Herald: Staples the latest to exit Downtown Crossing (http://www.bostonherald.com/business/general/view/20090702staples_the_latest_to_exit_downtown_crossi ng/srvc=home&position=4)

They're closing the Winter Street store. Aren't office supplies an essential good in a downtown business district? I can't think of a competing store selling the same merchandise.

(But it looks like they're keeping their other store a few blocks away on Court Street.)

Staples aggressively over-expanded during flush times, so this is to be expected.

On the supplies: the inflated store price over on-line pricing doesn't cover the cost of operating a physical store. I think they do 2 hour delivery, so accounts will order on-line for cheaper, or else send an intern further down the street if it's really important. At least that's what I do.

Ron Newman

07-02-2009, 09:19 AM

KentXie

07-02-2009, 09:48 AM

CVS has even more aggressively over-expanded, and yet the Herald says they're taking over the Staples storefront. I don't understand this, given that there's already a CVS every half block in DTX. Or are they planning to close one of their other redundant stores?

Doubt it. If any, this location, due to the small size of the property, would be one of the first to close. The Chinatown and Downtown locations are three of their largest stores in the city. The only other store that could close is the one on Tremont St.

statler

07-02-2009, 09:52 AM

I wonder if it will be one of their MinuteClinics, because a new store makes exactly zero sense there.

tobyjug

07-02-2009, 11:42 AM

Now:

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh109/tobyjug_2008/L1130366.jpg

statler

07-02-2009, 11:57 AM

I missing working in that part of town so much. :(

Beton Brut

07-02-2009, 12:02 PM

^^ Gotham City.

Nice work!

Bubbybu

07-02-2009, 12:41 PM

two of the homeliest buildings in Boston

statler

07-02-2009, 12:45 PM

Huh.

There isn't a single building in that photo that I don't love.

Riverworks

07-02-2009, 01:40 PM

Great shot! I like the layering... Where is it taken exactly?

statler

07-02-2009, 01:51 PM

Looking down Franklin St at the corner of Hawley St.

Justin7

07-02-2009, 02:22 PM

Absolutely love that shot. Do you have a higher resolution?

tobyjug

07-02-2009, 02:49 PM

I "throw away" the photos after I post them. The resolution at the SD card level is high. The camera is a 10.2 mp Leica (I forget which model, it is the chunky one). But by the time it moves from e-mail to photobucket to A/B, the resolution is gone. It starts as a Fender, but ends up as a Gibson through a Marshall.

statler

07-02-2009, 02:54 PM

Why is it going through email?

tobyjug

07-02-2009, 03:31 PM

I suspect it is because I don't know what I am doing (have pity on a poor old dog! My cameras until 2 years ago were a Leica 111F and a Contax III!) I load the shots on the computer, e-mail them to myself, download the e-mail attachment to "my pictures", upload to photobucket, paste to A/B. Alot of fuzz creeps in.

Justin7

07-02-2009, 03:35 PM

You load them on your work computer and then email them to your home computer (or vice versa)? Is that what you mean?

statler

07-02-2009, 03:44 PM

Ok, Toby, I think we can save you a step (and some resolution!) When you say you 'load them on to the computer', do you know what folder they go into? If so, you can direct photobucket to pluck them out of that folder instead of the "My Pictures" folder. Alternately you may be able to load the photos directly to the 'My Pictures" folder, but I'd need to know how you get the photos from the camera to the competer. (via usb cable, SD card reader, what software etc.)

Hope this helps!

tobyjug

07-02-2009, 03:45 PM

Woof. Cable from camera to computer. E-mail from work to home computer, then post on A/B during lunch at home, nap time, or whenever.

statler

07-02-2009, 03:48 PM

Good dog!

riffgo

07-02-2009, 03:55 PM

two of the homeliest buildings in Boston

WHICH TWO?

Justin7

07-02-2009, 04:01 PM

Woof. Cable from camera to computer. E-mail from work to home computer, then post on A/B during lunch at home, nap time, or whenever.

There is some reason you can't load them directly onto your home computer? Perhaps it's just a matter of convenience, but if your home computer is actually lacking something we can probably figure out a way to fix that.

blade_bltz

07-02-2009, 08:04 PM

It starts as a Fender, but ends up as a Gibson through a Marshall.

I'm gonna store this gem in memory.

tobyjug

07-08-2009, 03:35 PM

Who is the Mayor's campaign director? He/she has a delicious sense of irony, what with the dozen or so "Menino For Mayor" sign holders standing next to Filenes right now.

statler

07-08-2009, 03:44 PM

Who is the Mayor's campaign director? He/she has a delicious sense of irony, what with the dozen or so "Menino For Mayor" sign holders standing next to Filenes right now.

^^They were probably sent there by Yoon or Flaherty. :)

Awesome photo opportunity though!

tobyjug

07-08-2009, 06:18 PM

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh109/tobyjug_2008/L1130670.jpg

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh109/tobyjug_2008/L1130671.jpg

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh109/tobyjug_2008/L1130672.jpg

JohnAKeith

07-08-2009, 08:09 PM

College students will save DTX, I know it!

tobyjug

07-09-2009, 11:03 AM

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh109/tobyjug_2008/L1130689.jpg

statler

07-09-2009, 12:51 PM

Huh. Wonder what that's about.

cden4

07-09-2009, 02:14 PM

From Weds July 8 around 1:45 PM

Jazz in July
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2458/3704991926_51a55af372.jpg?v=0

Jazz in July
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2540/3704986416_934e9c07fe.jpg?v=0

Jazz in July
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2448/3704176821_5058992187.jpg?v=0

Summer St
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2532/3704987130_d58ec1ff7c.jpg?v=0

Washington St
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3534/3704986784_398608d993.jpg?v=0

Boston02124

07-09-2009, 02:31 PM

It was a lot more active/busy yesterday around 4pm lots of high school student/cops!

JohnAKeith

07-09-2009, 02:33 PM

The summer jobs program started yesterday or the day before, maybe that was the reason?

tobyjug

07-09-2009, 02:34 PM

There was a Latin boy band called "Aventura" autographing albums, undergarments, body parts, etc. The lads seemed to attract throngs of admiring young females. There was at least one stretch hummer that everyone could see in the street.

Boston02124

07-09-2009, 02:40 PM

That must of been it!

Bubbybu

07-10-2009, 09:49 AM

Some news....

http://www.boston.com/business/articles/2009/07/10/office_rental_rates_fall_in_hub/?p1=Well_MostPop_Emailed7

Boston’s office market is experiencing the sharpest drop in rental rates in nearly a decade, with the supply of vacant space continuing to increase as employers cut back during the economic slowdown.

Average asking rents in Greater Boston plunged to $28.11 per square foot in the second quarter of 2009, a 12 percent decline from the same period last year, according to Lincoln Property Co., a real estate services firm. Rents are at their lowest level since 2001.

The drop-off is being felt throughout the market, from downtown Boston to the outer suburbs, reflecting the pervasive impact of the recession. Those shedding space include financial and law firms in Boston, pharmaceutical and technology firms along Interstate 495, and Cambridge consulting companies.
“The downturn is much broader and deeper this time,’’ said Mike Edward, head of brokerage for Lincoln. “In 2001, it was the tech sector, but now it’s really spread across all industries.’’

Companies are flooding the market with space available for sublease, a measure of the weakness in the real estate market. There is now more than 5.1 million square feet of sublease space across the region, 40 percent more than a year ago, according to the real estate firm Jones Lang LaSalle.
Among newly available space is 134,000 square feet at 100 Federal St. that was used by financial giant Wellington Management and 88,000 square feet at Thomson Place from Cengage Learning Inc., an educational publishing firm. IBM Corp., Harvard Pilgrim Health Care Inc., and the law firm Ropes & Gray LLP are also trying to lease out blocks of space.

While the market changes are not as extreme as in 2001, real estate specialists said the upheaval is far from over.

“Space is going to continue to come on the market, and rents are going to be flat for three to four years,’’ said Joe Sciolla, managing principal of Cresa Partners, an advisory firm that exclusively represents office tenants. “I don’t see employment coming back right away to substantiate rent growth.’’
In the meantime, some firms are taking advantage of the down market to upgrade. ITG Inc., a financial services firm, is moving to 100 High St., a 28-story tower in the Financial District, a significant step up from the pair of low-rise buildings it now occupies on the South Boston Waterfront.

“The timing worked to our advantage,’’ said Carolyn Freeland, a spokeswoman for ITG. She declined to disclose the firm’s rent at 100 High St. but indicated ITG was able to benefit from the market conditions.

Edward, the brokerage chief for Lincoln Property, said bargain hunters are bringing the market back to life, but the volume of transactions is still low and will remain so for many months.

“I’m hoping we’ll bottom out in the middle of next year, and then we’ll begin the climb back,’’ he said.

Casey Ross can be reached at cross@globe.com.

http://www.boston.com/business/articles/2009/07/10/economy8217s_woes_check_in_at_hotels/

The news is bad for Boston’s hotel industry this year, but it will be better in 2010, according to recent forecasts released by two local hospitality consultant groups.

As Americans cut back on business and leisure travel during the recession, occupancy and room rates, as well as revenue per available room, are expected to fall dramatically this year. But the studies suggest Boston-area hotels have reached bottom, and the numbers are expected to improve next year.

At Boston-area hotels, revenue per available room - a key measure that factors in both occupancy and average daily room rates - is expected to fall 19.5 percent this year compared with 2008, according PKF Hospitality Research. In 2010, the decline is expected to be just half a percent.
“We’re not growing necessarily, we’re just doing less bad,’’ said Reed Woodworth, vice president of PKF Consulting.

Pinnacle Advisory Group is predicting a 13.2 percent drop in revenue per available room among suburban hotels inside Interstate 495 this year, and an 18.1 percent fall at Boston and Cambridge properties. In 2010, those numbers are expected to improve to 3 and 5.4 percent declines, respectively.
Nationally, hotel revenue per available room is expected to plunge about 18 percent this year and 3 percent next year, according to the average of figures from both hospitality groups.

“I don’t have any good news to share with you,’’ said Pinnacle co-owner Rachel Roginsky at the Sheraton Boston Hotel yesterday during the Outlook Boston presentation, an annual lodging industry forecast meeting.
Luxury properties have been the hardest hit by the recession. The revenue per available room at hotels with daily rates averaging more than $200 a room are expected to fall 22.1 percent from 2008 to 2009, according to PKF; occupancy is forecast to be down 14.7 percent.

Business travelers who might normally stay at ultraswanky hotels like the Mandarin Oriental, which opened last fall on Bolyston Street, are now trading down to more affordable hotels, Woodworth said. But he said luxury hotels in the suburbs - such as upscale boutique Hotel Indigo in Newton, a former Holiday Inn that got a $19.5 million makeover and reopened as an upscale boutique hotel in January 2008 - have probably been hurt even more.
“The worst thing to be right now is a bigger, more expensive property located outside the city of Boston,’’ he said.

The Hotel Indigo and the Mandarin Oriental did not return calls seeking comment.

Collegiate Hospitality, which owns the Inn at Harvard and the Harvard Square Hotel, is experiencing declines at both its properties, but the numbers are worse at its upscale hotel. The Inn, which has rooms starting around $199, has had a 17 percent decline in occupancy and a 15 percent drop in revenue from January to June of this year compared with the same period last year. At the lower-priced Harvard Square Hotel, with rooms starting at $159, occupancy and revenue have fallen 7 percent and 8 percent, respectively.
“We’re certainly seeing a shift’’ toward less expensive lodging, said revenue manager Caitlin MacNeil.

Hotels are dropping their rates to attract more budget-conscious travelers. Pinnacle is projecting that the average daily room rate this year will drop 5 percent in suburban hotels and 11 percent in Boston. In 2010, average room rates are expected to be down 4 percent and 3 percent in Boston and the suburbs, respectively.

But lowering prices can do more harm than good - a “death spiral of discounting,’’ as Woodworth puts it, that takes profits off the table. Indeed, from July until the end of the year, delinquencies are expected to double and foreclosures are expected to triple, according Trepp, a New York company that tracks commercial mortgages.

Boston’s hotels are faring about as well as those in the other top 25 markets, Pinnacle consultants said. And in 2011, the Boston area outlook will get considerably sunnier, according to PKF Hospitality, which is predicting a 10.6 percent increase in hotel revenue per available room that year.
One factor contributing to next year’s improved outlook is the lack of new hotels being built. Two new hotels are slated to open in Boston this year - the W Hotel and the Ames Hotel. But after years of steady growth, there are none opening in 2010, Pinnacle reported, which should help bring supply and demand closer together. Still, “We’re not going to get back to 2007 performance,’’ Woodworth warned, “until 2013 or 2014.’’
Katie Johnston Chase can be reached at johnstonchase@globe.com

pelhamhall

07-10-2009, 10:15 AM

the pair of low-rise buildings it now occupies on the South Boston Waterfront.

Hey intern/journalist, the correct name is "Seaport District" - even Boss Menino uses it now. Somebody tell this kid that Jimmy Kelly died and we don't have to use 'SBW' any more!

statler

07-10-2009, 10:17 AM

Hey intern/journalist, the marketing term is "Seaport District" - even Boss Menino uses it now. Somebody tell this kid that Jimmy Kelly died and we don't have to use 'SBW' any more!

Fixed that for you.

pelhamhall

07-10-2009, 10:43 AM

Haha - Statler, I love it!

JohnAKeith

07-17-2009, 09:25 PM

From this week's Boston Courant (edited for clarity)

Residents Forming Neighborhood Group
by Jeb Bobseine, Boston Courant

Downtown Crossing dwellers are banding together to lobby for the area's permanent residential population ...

... The association will draw members from buildings such as Tremont-on-the Common and the Ritz Carlton's Avery Street Towers, but any permanent resident of the Downtown Crossing area is welcome to join, [George] Coorsen stressed ...

... Members must be "stakeholders, not transients," Coorsen explained. This rules out, as one example, Suffolk University students.

What an a-hole.

tobyjug

07-17-2009, 10:23 PM

And as another example, he rules out that thriving DTX entrepreneurial class-panhandlers, who live in the neighborhood flophouses!

I never realized that we were so elite that anyone should be excluded! I feel so special.

JohnAKeith

07-18-2009, 12:49 AM

So it also rules out renters, I assume?

So, what, you have to bring your condo deed with you when you sign up?

bbfen

07-18-2009, 12:10 PM

I don't understand why they wouldn't want students to participate in the community as any other resident would. And to be clear, this is what they are, even if they know in advance it will only last 3-4 years. They buy food. Their (rent/dorm fees) pay trash, water, city service. They eat at local restaurants, see movies.

Crap.

(Edit to add: sorry, the student-hate is really getting to me. In this economy, marginalizing one of the few classes with income to spend in the city is ridiculous. They could take their dollars to another, more student-friendly city.)

tobyjug

08-14-2009, 04:40 PM

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh109/tobyjug_2008/CopyofL1070926.jpg

Thursday evenings Toby likes a drink, but this stuff is rotgut. Let's go for a walk.

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh109/tobyjug_2008/L1130965.jpg

What's this I see? Girls with turntables? Must get closer!~

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh109/tobyjug_2008/L1130966.jpg

It appears to be a beer garden in my own little neighborhood!

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh109/tobyjug_2008/L1130967.jpg

Doesn't say anything about "Dogs prohibited"! What the hell, bums, sorry, the "residentially challenged", were pissing right here ten minutes ago.

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh109/tobyjug_2008/L1130968.jpg

Let's go in and see.

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh109/tobyjug_2008/L1130969.jpg

Now those are Toby sized beer cans!

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh109/tobyjug_2008/L1130963.jpg

That girl's a genius!

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh109/tobyjug_2008/L1130964.jpg

Whoa! This is a Mensa convention!

Oh, Mr. Mayor, you are working on my vote!

palindrome

08-14-2009, 05:04 PM

I got an email for that "downtown social" from Ivy restaurant on Temple.

Based on the pics, i certainly need to check it out!!

http://origin.ih.constantcontact.com/fs051/1101674525978/img/69.jpg

jass

08-14-2009, 11:55 PM

[

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh109/tobyjug_2008/L1130964.jpg

And suddenly downtown crossing is THE place to be

blade_bltz

08-15-2009, 07:55 AM

Not quite as raucous as, say, a beer garden on a Tokyo rooftop in August, but hey...progress?

KentXie

08-20-2009, 12:54 PM

This is exactly what DT needs more of. They need more stalls and stands. I recently came back from Montreal and they have an area at my hotel that is pedestrian only. The place has a lot of traffic activities. I'm not exactly sure what some of the stands were (didn't understand French) but i'm pretty sure it's a bunch of advertisements. They also had a mist tunnel:

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y226/DarkFenxmon/DSC02385.jpg

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y226/DarkFenxmon/DSC02386.jpg

Bubbybu

08-20-2009, 12:59 PM

I've been thinking lately...while I typically love red brick sidewalks....I think that those around Winter St. and the Filene's area would be best served if they were light concrete or even blacktop.....something about the brick does not work in that area.

JohnAKeith

08-20-2009, 02:38 PM

I hate brick sidewalks. They're always uneven, and difficult for people with strollers and/or walkers / wheelchairs to maneuver. Ban them!

Lurker

08-20-2009, 06:46 PM

Let's get rid of all paving and allow the earth to breathe free to the sky!

Mud is only a reflection of the weather, we as children of the earth must learn to coexist!

kennedy

08-20-2009, 08:33 PM

Or we could develop hover boots. But yes, I agree John, brick sidewalks RARELY work. I do like the current concrete-with-a-brick-trim trend. A little color, without sacrificing concrete's durability.

AmericanFolkLegend

08-20-2009, 10:45 PM

The problem with brick sidewalks in Boston is for the last 20 years they've been using "City Hall Pavers" instead of wire cut bricks. City Hall Pavers have intentional imperfections so that they look . . . umm . . . colonial??? My guess is this was probably the invention of the Back Bay Neighborhood Association (or some similar group).

Anyway, the CHP's don't even meet AAB standards (see the sidewalk on Huntington Ave near Mass Ave that was torn up after a lawsuit by AAB) so the City has stopped using them. Wire cut bricks can and will make a big difference going forward.

Bubbybu

08-20-2009, 10:57 PM

There is a difference between bricks used on Winter Street and the ones used down on Washington around the Old Meeting House....

Which ones are which?

The ones by the Church are nice imo...the Winter Street/Filene's stretch of bricks are horrible and dour...they seem to show a lot more dirt. Water also seems to evaporate more slowly on them....are they made with less clay?

JohnAKeith

08-20-2009, 11:19 PM

I think they used city pavers on the renovation of the West Newton Street sidewalks and they look damn good, for now. Actually, I consider that street to be the exception to the rule.

I was at a South End Landmarks meeting once and had to listen to the city's representatives give a half hour presentation of the benefits / costs of different types of brick. I slit my wrists and died, that night.

AmericanFolkLegend

08-20-2009, 11:22 PM

As far as I know they're made with the same material. THe difference is in how they're formed. Wire cut bricks are fairly percise - more or less the same as those they use in building facades. City Hall Pavers have a sort of "lip" around the bottom that is, by design, not necessarily even. There are also dimples, etc. in the surface/edges. This is all intentional so that the brick sidewalk is imperfect and looks aged, but tell that to someone who has to tackle these sidewalks in a wheelchair.

Not sure which is which on Winter St vs. Washington St . . . .

armpitsOFmight

10-19-2009, 07:14 PM

I'd honestly like to see a Target go up in DTX so I can buy undershirts, socks, and boxers at a good price. Oh yeah, and I think we should start Tokyoinizing it so it has pretty and shiny lights at night.

Ron Newman

10-19-2009, 07:18 PM

There's already a Marshall's and TJX in Downtown Crossing selling that stuff. I'd like to have Filene's Basement back, though.

armpitsOFmight

10-19-2009, 07:23 PM

Those stores don't carry fruit of the loom products at a decent price.

armpitsOFmight

10-19-2009, 07:29 PM

While we're on the topic of DTX, is there anything planned for that parking lot across from the paramount? Post a link if this has already been discussed...

Boston02124

10-19-2009, 07:33 PM

Thats Haywood Place another can of worms! There's a thread here someplace dig deep lol!

statler

10-19-2009, 10:15 PM

Oh yeah, and I think we should start Tokyoinizing it so it has pretty and shiny lights at night.

Kinda like Times Sq? ;)

BosDevelop

10-20-2009, 12:19 PM

Those stores don't carry fruit of the loom products at a decent price.

Buy it on the internet from a site like Amazon that doesn't charge tax or shipping. Even if it is the same price as what you would find at Target, you are getting a 6.5% discount and getting it delivered to your door for free.***

*** it's suggestions like these that are ruining retail districts like Downtown Crossing but some day retailers will wake up and realize that they need to be on their toes if they want business less customers buy things from the comfort of their home for better prices.

Lurker

10-20-2009, 01:13 PM

It's called the option to ship to store for free. Being able to return something on the spot it's the wrong size, or otherwise unwanted upon sight, is a big deal.

Justin7

10-20-2009, 01:28 PM

*** it's suggestions like these that are ruining retail districts like Downtown Crossing but some day retailers will wake up and realize that they need to be on their toes if they want business less customers buy things from the comfort of their home for better prices.

I'm not sure that is true. As internet shopping continues to proliferate, the greatest reason remaining to visit a brick and mortar store will be the experience. Something that DTX hopefully will be able to offer but a suburban Target will not. The net will kill the strip mall and in doing so lead to a reemergence of the downtown shopping district and department store.

This is silly wishful thinking, I know.

atlrvr

10-20-2009, 10:24 PM

The net will kill the strip mall...

And the fat will become fatter....

These conversations always make me shiver and I inadvertantly end up visualizing the dystopian world of Ray Bradbury's "There Will Come Soft Rains"

Boston02124

12-20-2009, 12:50 PM

Suffolk 83

12-20-2009, 12:58 PM

nice pics

statler

12-20-2009, 08:29 PM

http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn80/boston02124/boston%20skyline/223-1.jpg

When did they open the base of the Paramount? I'll have to walk over to take a look this week. Looks great.

mass88

12-20-2009, 09:51 PM

Does anyone feel that the old Filenes is better than the current Macy's?

Ron Newman

12-20-2009, 10:07 PM

Does anyone NOT feel that way? I don't understand why they kept Jordan's instead of Filene's once the merger happened.

bbfen

12-21-2009, 08:10 AM

http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn80/boston02124/boston%20skyline/223-1.jpg

When did they open the base of the Paramount? I'll have to walk over to take a look this week. Looks great.

It just happened in the last 10 days. I can't find a link, but read about it.

JohnAKeith

12-24-2009, 05:14 PM

Various shots from today, 12/24/2009.

http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk287/JackoffJones/dtx/IMG00260-20091224-1351.jpg

http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk287/JackoffJones/dtx/IMG00259-20091224-1351.jpg

http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk287/JackoffJones/dtx/IMG00257-20091224-1350.jpg

http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk287/JackoffJones/dtx/IMG00256-20091224-1350.jpg

http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk287/JackoffJones/dtx/IMG00255-20091224-1350.jpg

JohnAKeith

12-24-2009, 05:15 PM

http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk287/JackoffJones/dtx/IMG00253-20091224-1349.jpg

http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk287/JackoffJones/dtx/IMG00252-20091224-1349.jpg

http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk287/JackoffJones/dtx/IMG00249-20091224-1348.jpg

http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk287/JackoffJones/dtx/IMG00247-20091224-1348.jpg

Ron Newman

12-24-2009, 06:02 PM

Did you get into the Paramount lobby or are these shot through the glass doors from outside?

JohnAKeith

12-24-2009, 08:01 PM

Through the glass.

statler

05-07-2010, 07:35 AM

Boston Business Journal (http://boston.bizjournals.com/boston/stories/2010/05/03/daily48.html ) - May 6, 2010
Menino pushes for city's first BID

by Mary Moore

Downtown business leaders and Mayor Thomas M. Menino kicked off a signature drive Thursday to draw as many property owners as possible into the Downtown Boston Business Improvement District, which, if created, would be the city’s first.

During a press conference held at 101 Arch St. that had the feel of a pep rally, Menino urged property owners in the area to sign a petition in favor of creating the improvement district. So far, about 200 property owners have signed on and the BID is about halfway to its goal, said Menino.

Fidelity Investments and State Street are among the two most recent property owners to sign on. Jerry Rappaport, CEO of New Boston Fund, which has its offices on State Street, and Mark Weld, managing partner of ING Clarion, which is at 101 Arch St., were on hand at the press conference.

In order to be approved, the BID needs 61 percent of the owners within the boundaries of the district to sign on. John Rattigan of DLA Piper and chairman of the BID Board of Directors said he hopes enough signatures will be gathered by summer to bring the BID proposal to the Boston City Council for approval.

“They’ll probably act on this before they act on my budget,” Menino quipped.

Menino acknowledged that Boston has tried, and failed, to create a BID in the past. “But we’ve never been this close,” he said. “It’s time to pick up the ball” and take it across the finish line, he said. He noted the changes in downtown Boston, particularly near Downtown Crossing. Menino predicted new restaurants would open downtown, adding that the proposed BID is happening “at the right time” for the downtown.

The signature-gathering process so far has been “methodical” and has required talking to property owners one-by-one, said Rosemarie Sansone, president of the BID.

The BID, which will be managed and governed by the property owners in the district, will provide additional services to the downtown area, including a team of 35 street workers who will work from 11 a.m. until 7 p.m., seven days a week, Sansone said. The workers will answer questions for the public and respond to needs within the BID area.

Menino promised a “special prize” for the person who gathers the most new signatures on BID petitions, bringing laughs from the crowd. Asked after the press conference what that special prize would be, Menino smiled and said, “It’s my secret.”

ablarc

05-07-2010, 08:28 AM

“It’s time to pick up the ball” and take it across the finish line, he said.
It was time for that years ago.

The fans have gone home.

BostonYoureMyHome

05-07-2010, 08:48 AM

^Yup...

Ron Newman

05-07-2010, 08:49 AM

What changed the Mayor's mind on this subject? I thought he had opposed it in the past.

statler

05-07-2010, 08:51 AM

^^The mayor was always in favor (http://boston.bizjournals.com/boston/stories/2000/02/28/story1.html?q=boston%20bid ). It was the city unions that opposed it. Don't know what has changed there.

BostonUrbEx

05-07-2010, 08:59 AM

Maybe he should offer tax cuts to restore a lively downtown rather than to keep a ginormous well-off corporation that wants out.

Beton Brut

05-07-2010, 09:05 AM

“It’s time to pick up the ball” and take it across the finish line, he said.

Metaphor fail.

Shepard

05-07-2010, 09:08 AM

The workers will answer questions for the public and respond to needs within the BID area.

E.g. herding the sheep back into the Filene's hole.

tobyjug

05-07-2010, 09:23 AM

The "pep rally" event was pretty obnoxious.

TheRifleman

05-07-2010, 12:21 PM

So what actually does BID do if approved?

Lurker

05-07-2010, 02:01 PM

The BID will raise funds through self imposed taxes to pay for all the streetscape improvements, security, and maintenance which the city neglects to do with regular tax revenue.

TheRifleman

05-07-2010, 02:02 PM

Lurker,

Why would any of these Building Owners agree to this?

statler

05-07-2010, 02:10 PM

^^ Lurker, do BIDs have any kind of regulatory authority? Do they have any say in signage or retail storefront appearance?

Beton Brut

05-07-2010, 02:19 PM

It would depend on the covenants of the agreement the members sign. For my money, I hope so.

statler

05-07-2010, 02:25 PM

So it is basically a commercial grade HOA.

Beton Brut

05-07-2010, 02:34 PM

Sorta (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Business_improvement_district)...

Some folks don't like the use of private security firms in BIDs. Some object to the privatization of public space. Some worry about small businesses being priced out of the market. And some feel there could be an impact on civil rights and freedom of expression.

These are real concerns...

I see an area that looks like hell and needs a facelift. Does anyone else have a better idea?

vanshnookenraggen

05-07-2010, 04:00 PM

Why would any of these Building Owners agree to this?

Because it is in their interest that DTX is kept clean. This is really a no brainer as far as I'm concerned. I've seen BIDs work wonders in NYC. I know the word "tax" sends shivers up your spine but it does serve a purpose. Plus when the building owners pay they will have a say over what the money pays for (as opposed to a new hotel or some shit).

erikyow

05-07-2010, 04:04 PM

For those interested, Toronto started the trend of these - here they're called BIAs. There are now about 60 BIAs throughout the city. In fact, there is an umbrella association for the BIAs that explains a lot of what they do and how they function at this website ( http://www.toronto-bia.com ). But to answer some questions, yes, BIAs (or BIDs) do have signage in their respective districts. For instance, in the area of Toronto I'm in, the Danforth BIA ( http://thedanforth.ca/ ) has banners on every light post and the city of Toronto has started replacing the traditional street signs (that look remarkably like those in Brookline) with the new city standard that also features the Danforth logo on that website's homepage.

Overall, I have a pretty favourable opinion of BIAs. They often do good work since they know that if they make the streetscape attractive, it'll will result in good things for their businesses.

ablarc

05-07-2010, 05:20 PM

The BID will raise funds through self imposed taxes to pay for all the streetscape improvements, security, and maintenance which the city neglects to do with regular tax revenue.
In other words, private police and street sweepers.

Also probably, potted geraniums hanging from lamp posts.

More like a mall.

statler

05-08-2010, 09:01 AM

Boston Globe (http://www.boston.com/business/articles/2010/05/08/downtown_businesses_hope_to_get_the_hubs_heart_pum ping_again/ ) - May 8, 2010
Getting the Hub’s heart pumping again
Businesses push downtown plan

By Casey Ross, Globe Staff | May 8, 2010

In Downtown Crossing, the city’s long-languishing central shopping district, hundreds of business owners are coming together to clean its streets, hire guides to assist tourists, and lift an area that has for years felt gritty and worn.

Shopkeepers, colleges, and commercial landlords in the area are on the verge of forming Boston’s first business improvement district, a voluntary association that aims to raise $4 million a year for stepped-up services, landscaping, and security in hope of attracting a better mix of stores and the customers to fill them.

Beyond beautification, the effort is meant to reestablish a sense of place in a shopping area that has struggled to find a winning formula and is just beginning to climb back. Progress has been slowed by an economic downturn that has hurt sales and stalled the $700 million redevelopment of the former Filene’s property, leaving a hole in the heart of the district.

But recession or no, store owners say they are tired of waiting for a renaissance.

“We have to band together to make it happen,’’ said Ken Gloss, whose family has operated the Brattle Book Shop in Downtown Crossing since the 1960s. “I’ve seen things go down and up and back down again. We need to do something to move us in the right direction and not let the area slide back.’’

Boston is one of the few major cities in the country without a business improvement district, a designated area in which commercial property owners vote to pay to supplement basic city services. Elsewhere, this has become a common method of transforming crime-ridden and blighted neighborhoods: Times Square in New York is a famous example. Once filled with seedy taverns and nightclubs, Times Square is now a vibrant shopping and dining destination.

Downtown Crossing was a shopping mecca in the 1960s and 70s, but over the years it has struggled with crime, empty storefronts, and changing consumer tastes that led to the departure of longtime magnet stores such as Filene’s and other standard-bearers.

The trend has begun to shift in recent years with the opening of several new restaurants on Temple Place and Washington Street and renovation of the once dilapidated Boston Opera House and the Modern and Paramount theatres.

Two previous efforts to establish a business improvement district in Downtown Crossing in the 1990s faltered because of legislative snags and lack of support among merchants. They also faced opposition from police union officials concerned that plans for private security forces would undermine their work in the area.

But this time there is no organized opposition to the plan, which is being advanced by a committee of downtown businesses. Private security has been dropped in favor of “ambassadors,’’ who will assist tourists and work with police to identify trouble spots.

Also included in the plan is a uniformed cleaning staff that will work from 7 a.m. to 11 p.m. to pick up trash, remove graffiti, and powerwash the streets and sidewalks.

To satisfy city requirements, business leaders trying to form the new improvement district need 400, or 60 percent, of commercial property owners to join and agree to pay a special tax based on the value of their properties. Organizers of the effort said landowners would be taxed $1.10 per thousand dollars on the first $70 million in value. Any value above that would be taxed 50 cents per thousand dollars.

So far, about 200 owners in the 20-block area, tired of the area’s battered reputation, have signed up without public outreach. The effort has strong support from Mayor Thomas M. Menino, who says he is determined to make it succeed.

“The heart of Boston should be a special place,’’ Menino said during a press conference Thursday to launch the final phase of signature gathering. “A business improvement district will make people more proud and excited to work here, live here, and have fun here.’’

Other supporters include a broad mix of property owners, from Wildie Ceccherini, a Haitian immigrant who owns Boston Hair Design on Kingston Street, to Ronald Druker, a developer who owns the Corner Mall and other properties totaling about 600,000 square feet. Also on board are neighborhood stalwarts such as Macy’s, E.B. Horn, Emerson College, and the Omni Parker House hotel.

“We are all banking on the business improvement district creating a new atmosphere,’’ Druker said. “It will enhance the maintenance, security, and promotion of this area.’’

Suffolk University, one of the largest landowners, said it expects to pay $25,000 a year to fund the improvement district. “It’s going to pay back tenfold in dividends,’’ said John Nucci, director of external affairs for the university. “Downtown Crossing used to be the place where all of Boston’s neighborhoods came together. And there’s no reason we can’t get back to that again.’’

Even in the economic downturn, organizers said they are confident that they will get enough people to sign up. They said they expect to submit a petition to the City Council for final approval by the end of July.

“I think the question for most people has become, how can we afford not to do this?’’ said John Rattigan, a lawyer for the Boston firm DLA Piper LLP who cochairs a committee leading the effort. “This is a way to take charge of the neighborhood and improve property values.’’

Casey Ross can be reached at cross@globe.com.

TheRifleman

05-10-2010, 08:50 AM

I'm predicting this now. FILENES will be a taxpayers bail out. And I will be OUTRAGED at bailing out billionaire ROSS.
THANKS HYNES

ablarc

05-10-2010, 05:33 PM

ROSS: Is he too big to fail?

riffgo

05-15-2010, 12:03 AM

^ Of course, NOT.

Expect some positive announcements within the next sixty days.

BostonYoureMyHome

05-17-2010, 03:38 PM

I guess the lesson here is... become a developer, or tell your kids to. It is somewhat like being a weatherman, you can be constantly wrong and still have a paying job.

vanshnookenraggen

05-17-2010, 03:52 PM

I guess the lesson here is... become a developer

That or a banker.

Cuz no developers or bankers got fucked in the last few years AT ALL!

BostonYoureMyHome

05-17-2010, 03:54 PM

Maybe Macklowe down in your neck of the woods, seems to be raining shit on him

TheRifleman

05-19-2010, 10:49 AM

Why can't Boston innovation create a small fashion district downtown? This would be great if HYNES had a brain and could think outside the box.

kennedy

05-19-2010, 12:08 PM

A small fashion district isn't out of the box...at all.

vanshnookenraggen

05-19-2010, 03:10 PM

Why can't Boston innovation create a small fashion district downtown? This would be great if HYNES had a brain and could think outside the box.

How would you propose Boston go about doing this?

TheRifleman

05-19-2010, 04:07 PM

Persuading and possibly catering to the needs of a Fashion company that would be willing to relocate for possible cheaper rents instead of NYC. Give them entire DTX area as their playground. It would be great to see photo shooting right near DTX crossing.
I honestly don’t know. But I’m also not a developer.
I’m just sick of the financial district that consists of LAW FIRMS and FINANCIAL FIRMS.

Cambridge did it right and lured the Biotechs with our Schools.
The real problem with our city is the Mayor and the BRA.

Shepard

05-19-2010, 04:22 PM

I’m just sick of the financial district that consists of LAW FIRMS and FINANCIAL FIRMS.

Cambridge did it right and lured the Biotechs with our Schools.
The real problem with our city is the Mayor and the BRA.

Law firms and financial firms are good tenants for downtown offices. They deal externally with clients, for which they demand central locations with ease of access (e.g. public transit), impressive architecture and facades, and a lively district with varied entertainment options. Biotech and engineering firms, on the other hand, are internally-oriented. They can locate anywhere their employees are willing to drive to, they need functional - not impressive - architecture and they are far less likely to go for hours-long wet lunches or boozy dinners (see: Kendall, route 128).

Even in the desolate Seaport, new nightlife is managing to keep pace with the glacial development, something I believe has a lot to do with the mix of finance and law firms that are locating there.

TheRifleman

05-19-2010, 04:43 PM

Law firms and financial firms are good tenants for downtown offices. They deal externally with clients, for which they demand central locations with ease of access e.g. public transit, impressive architecture and facades, and a lively district with varied entertainment options. Biotech and engineering firms, on the other hand, are internally-oriented. They can locate anywhere their employees are willing to drive to, they need functional - not impressive - architecture and they are far less likely to go for hours-long wet lunches or boozy dinners (see: Kendall, route 128).

Even in the desolate Seaport, new nightlife is managing to keep pace with the glacial development, something I believe has a lot to do with the mix of finance and law firms that are locating there.

I understand Law firms and Financial firms are good tenants. The problem is every skyscraper in the city is full of law firms and financial firms. The city has no other core sectors of diversity. How can Boston really grow from just Law Firms and Financial firms? Somebody should ask this question at the next BRA meeting.

How many law firms and Banking firms in Boston?

vanshnookenraggen

05-19-2010, 05:35 PM

If fashion is a way to go then we should get some of Bostons schools involved, like MassArt. DTX is already turning into a college zone with Emerson and Suffolk creeping in, why not turn it into a full fledged incubator?

tobyjug

05-19-2010, 05:56 PM

I understand Law firms and Financial firms are good tenants. The problem is every skyscraper in the city is full of law firms and financial firms. The city has no other core sectors of diversity. How can Boston really grow from just Law Firms and Financial firms? Somebody should ask this question at the next BRA meeting.

I see a solution. More lawsuits.

mass88

05-20-2010, 12:36 PM

Don't forget, the SB water front and Fort Point area have some good bars and popular ones at that. Lucky's, Drink and the Atlantic Beer Garden are all very popular.

czsz

05-20-2010, 05:07 PM

I’m just sick of the financial district that consists of LAW FIRMS and FINANCIAL FIRMS.

I know, what kind of financial district consists of financial firms!?

Guys, I'm sorry, but there are some industries you just can't have in a relatively provincial city, especially one with New York just down the road. Fashion requires concentrations of talent and wealth that are only possible in places like NY, Tokyo, and Paris. Even Milan is a sort of legacy exception that's been losing its cachet.

And, btw, Boston punches above its weight, considering its situation, because of its status as a (second tier, but still somewhat important) financial center. It's why we can have some nice things, if not all.

Boston02124

05-20-2010, 05:14 PM

todays drive by http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn80/boston02124/boston%20skyline/tampa%20fla/xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx-23.jpg

KentXie

05-20-2010, 11:16 PM

Looks like a scene from a movie

mass88

05-21-2010, 12:29 PM

It's not really surprising at all that Boston is loaded with financial firms. Boston is after all one of the largest and most important fiancial cities in all of North America. Along with New York, Chicago and San Francisco, are the big 4 in the U.S.

Patriots_1228

05-21-2010, 04:58 PM

Los Angeles? ^

ablarc

05-21-2010, 05:13 PM

bdurden

05-21-2010, 06:27 PM

mass88

05-22-2010, 12:18 PM

Not Charlotte, huh?

(Bank of America HQ and Wachovia HQ)

LA and Miami?

If we are talking about finance, Miami, Charlotte and LA are not in the top 4. Charlotte is a massive banking center, same thing with Miami. However Miami is all Latin American banks.

Patriots_1228

05-22-2010, 05:00 PM

ew...charlotte...wasn't there a crap on charlotte thread somewhere in the last year?

palindrome

05-22-2010, 08:00 PM

Not Charlotte, huh?

(Bank of America HQ and Wachovia HQ)

Wachovia was purchased by well's fargo when all the banks were failing, but Charlotte remains the east coast banking HQ.

ablarc

05-23-2010, 11:32 AM

ew...charlotte...wasn't there a crap on charlotte thread somewhere in the last year?
I must have started it.

tmac9wr

05-25-2010, 01:10 PM

czsz

05-25-2010, 04:34 PM

Charlotte remains the east coast banking HQ.

I know some people on Wall St. who would vomit their cocaine laughing at this statement.

Boston02124

05-26-2010, 07:29 PM

According to the latest Global Financial Centres Index, Boston is ranked the #3 financial center in the United States (NYC & Chicago are 1, 2), and #14 on the planet.

http://www.zyen.com/PDF/GFC%207.pdf ^Impressive! Why don't we have the skyline to go with it! Just kidding I know why after living here for 25 yrs! this morning http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn80/boston02124/boston%20skyline/tampa%20fla/384-1.jpg

HenryAlan

05-27-2010, 09:21 AM

^^^
Who says a large skyline is required to be a financial powerhouse? How many skyscrapers are in Switzerland?

palindrome

05-27-2010, 09:46 AM

I know some people on Wall St. who would vomit their cocaine laughing at this statement.

I guess I didn't phrase it clear enough. I was just referring to the Wells Fargo group (specifically, the Wachovia subsidiary) being HQed in Charlotte, not the industry as a whole.

my whole post was just fixing a minor technicality stemming from ablarc's post.

TheRifleman

05-27-2010, 09:57 AM

Walking around Boston
Boston Financial District is fallling apart. It's not getting better.
The Backbay seems to be fine.

I would rather walk around in Cambridge, Somerville than Boston.

kennedy

05-27-2010, 11:28 AM

Please edit for coherence? In what way is the Financial District falling apart? How is it not getting better?

Lurker

05-27-2010, 12:01 PM

I think he is referring to the massive amounts of vacant space for lease downtown.

TheRifleman

05-27-2010, 12:01 PM

Please edit for coherence? In what way is the Financial District falling apart? How is it not getting better?

Downtown looks like a junkie haven,
Boston Common is becoming an upgradable junkie haven
The financial District just looks dismal, EMPTY, lack of life.
The Greenway is not a park just a median strip to walk through.

Cambridge and Somerville have become better places to take long walks.

This is my view.

tobyjug

05-27-2010, 12:16 PM

Wouldn't it be more efficient to concentrate all the junkies on the Greenway?

AmericanFolkLegend

05-27-2010, 12:18 PM

Cambridge and Somerville have become better places to take long walks.

Is there a financial district in America that is a pleasant place to take a long walk?

Shepard

05-27-2010, 12:45 PM

It's also difficult to take a long walk in the financial district, with Boston Common, Government Center, the North End, South Station, Chinatown, all being, what... five to ten minutes apart? Unless you're willing to spiral around in circles.

kennedy

05-27-2010, 09:00 PM

I took a long walk through it today, and it wasn't unbearable. I walk all the way from the MIT boathouse, across the river, up Newbury, through DTX, made it to SS, and hopped on the T at Aquarium. The only point I found myself bored was when I crossed the Greenway. The Financial District certainly had plenty of life, perhaps because everyone was just getting out of work, and it was a beautiful day out.

czsz

05-28-2010, 07:41 PM

Yep, the financial district is the most exciting and bustling part of the city - at 8:59am, 12-1, and 5:01pm...on weekdays.

ablarc

05-29-2010, 11:43 AM

Financial District contains plenty of older (and dare one say? ... obsolete) office buildings that in New York would have been converted to condos (can you say "Woolworth"?). If you could build a few supertalls in Boston's Financial District, a similar phenomenon might occur to animate the streets at off hours.

czsz

05-30-2010, 07:17 PM

I worked in the NY financial district last year. I don't care how many condos have been built there; it's going to take thousands more to make it anything close to animated at night (lawyers and bankers working 24/7 and hitting the bars during breaks do more to contribute to that...)

Boston02124

06-21-2010, 10:33 PM

today http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn80/boston02124/boston%20skyline/tampa%20fla/456.jpg

czsz

06-21-2010, 11:26 PM

God, what a fucking awful excuse for a facade on the left. What is that, a tunnel vent? If it's not, it needs to be ripped apart and replaced.

Ron Newman

06-21-2010, 11:35 PM

If I'm interpreting the photo location correctly, that's the Boylston Street side of the Ritz-Carlton (Millennium Place) tower, with the CVS storefront.

tobyjug

06-22-2010, 10:43 AM

Yup. They kept it fortress-like because of the flop house next door, which is never going to move.

bdurden

06-22-2010, 11:54 AM

I believe that ventilation is for the T.

BostonUrbEx

06-22-2010, 01:03 PM

There's a Chinatown Station escalator/stairway right under that.

czsz

06-22-2010, 01:47 PM

Does the T really need ventilation there? Why aren't there massive T ventilation stacks everywhere? There's a T station inside and under the Old State House; I haven't seen its facade disfigured for a vent thing.

Meadowhawk

06-25-2010, 10:46 AM

Just read in the Herald that Felt will be renamed Sin and completely renovated to an upscale downtown nightclub. This is good news since the outdated facade is something that really needed an overhaul. Great news for the area. Now if the Paramount would just change the tacky purple, way-too-bright, light band on its marquis, I'll be happier still.

Lurker

06-25-2010, 11:23 AM

Somehow the name change doesn't inspire confidence in their targeted clientele.

BosDevelop

06-25-2010, 12:14 PM

Somehow the name change doesn't inspire confidence in their targeted clientele.

Completely agree. When are we going to see a place downtown for adults to grab an adult beverage, take a load off their feet, perhaps have a bite to eat and listen to some quality live music (Jazz, Blues, rock whatever)? I know nightclubs serve their purpose, but for those of us married with kids, a nightclub is pretty much the last establishment we will frequent. We need some new establishments in this part of town that cater to folks over 30.

Lurker

06-25-2010, 02:03 PM

A really good jazz club similar to Beehive or Wally's Cafe would be PERFECT in this location. Combined with some private booths and the existing billiards, the film noir atmosphere could be amazing.

statler

06-25-2010, 02:05 PM

Another good location would be the old RMV store on Winter St. Last I was up that way it was for lease.

CDubs

06-25-2010, 02:06 PM

Completely agree. When are we going to see a place downtown for adults to grab an adult beverage, take a load off their feet, perhaps have a bite to eat and listen to some quality live music (Jazz, Blues, rock whatever)? I know nightclubs serve their purpose, but for those of us married with kids, a nightclub is pretty much the last establishment we will frequent. We need some new establishments in this part of town that cater to folks over 30.

Same here! The sort of thing I'm looking for I found on a trip to DC recently - there's a street in the city (is it U Street? Near 14th) where there's a bunch of places like you describe...music trailing out of the doors, and you just walk in, have a seat, have a drink and enjoy some great jazz. It's a social thing that's more integrated with the street, and maybe that's because of the southern culture leanings of DC. I dunno, when I think of jazz clubs in Boston, I mainly think of places that you couldn't stumble upon if you were just wandering down the street (exceptions being Wally's, Lily Pad, maybe Ryles - others?) It would be great to have a street in Downtown Crossing with that sort of U street vibe, rather than more places like the soon-to-be-Sin.

czsz

06-25-2010, 03:10 PM

You wouldn't be likely to stumble across the U Street area in DC unless you were specifically going there, either.

But "Sin"...wow. This in a city founded by Puritans who would brand a scarlet letter on people who even inadvertently sinned.

commuter guy

06-25-2010, 03:12 PM

Another good location would be the old RMV store on Winter St. Last I was up that way it was for lease.

I am assuming you mean HMV rather than RMV. This space is leased and is under renovation. I regret to inform you that it will become another bank.

statler

06-25-2010, 03:16 PM

Ya, I meant HMV.

Such a wasted space as a bank. :(

CDubs

06-25-2010, 03:23 PM

You wouldn't be likely to stumble across the U Street area in DC unless you were specifically going there, either.

I'll assume that's true (haven't spent all that much time in DC), but I'm talking more of having a part of town like U street, where you know you can stroll down the street and find a decent number of jazz clubs within a few blocks or even storefronts of each other. The only part of Metro Boston I know of that has something approaching this is Inman Sq, with Ryles, Lily Pad, and Outpost 186 (which is sort of hidden, if I remember correctly).

BosDevelop

06-25-2010, 03:34 PM

Same here! The sort of thing I'm looking for I found on a trip to DC recently - there's a street in the city (is it U Street? Near 14th) where there's a bunch of places like you describe...music trailing out of the doors, and you just walk in, have a seat, have a drink and enjoy some great jazz. It's a social thing that's more integrated with the street, and maybe that's because of the southern culture leanings of DC. I dunno, when I think of jazz clubs in Boston, I mainly think of places that you couldn't stumble upon if you were just wandering down the street (exceptions being Wally's, Lily Pad, maybe Ryles - others?) It would be great to have a street in Downtown Crossing with that sort of U street vibe, rather than more places like the soon-to-be-Sin.\

I don't even need a whole street of these places. How about just one to start? There is nothing even close to downtown crossing like I described and very few places at all in Boston proper. Wally's come sort of close but I think it downtown crossing it would have to be a bit nicer than Wally's to attract the after work crowds that would be needed to support such an establishment.

and don't even get me started on the old HMV space on Winter St. What a disaster. mattresses and now a bank?

blade_bltz

06-25-2010, 03:49 PM

I realize this is kind of orthogonal to the point you guys are making, but Boston's jazz scene blows away DC's (it's not even a comparison), entirely thanks to the "places you couldn't stumble upon" like Berklee, NEC, Harvard. Of course, when it comes to Boston's "elite" clubs - Regattabar and Scullers - I couldn't agree more that the locations are very unfortunate.

czsz

06-25-2010, 04:00 PM

Sounds like Boston jazz has the same problem as all Boston culture - it's too institutionalized. There's just something about going to a jazz club that can't be replicated at Harvard.

blade_bltz

06-25-2010, 04:48 PM

That's 100% true, but it's not as if other cities are doing better. There's only one city in the country that successfully combines jazz club culture/environment with high quality and cutting-edge artistic output. You can probably guess it's NYC.

Jazz just doesn't have the popularity to thrive without either institutional support (Boston) or the mecca-like status of NYC. Fortunately for places like Boston, the institutionalization does to some extent breathe life (in the form of Berklee students) into places like Wally's that would otherwise have to shut down or "branch out" further and further away from quality jazz.

czsz

06-25-2010, 04:52 PM

I would say jazz thrives pretty well in other places. New Orleans is one example. Plenty of smaller cities - at least Memphis and Louisville come to mind - have blues club cultures as well.

I'm not saying I'd like to see the institutions done away with, merely complemented by a more independent arts scene. Even other expensive cities in the US, like San Francisco, don't rely on universities to support local artists the way Boston does. Why?

riffgo

06-26-2010, 02:02 AM

....because the other cities don't have them.....at least not as many.

czsz

06-26-2010, 05:14 PM

But they also have equally or more thriving arts scenes. So why does Boston need them as a crutch. Try to imagine what the scene would be like without the universities if it helps...

kennedy

06-27-2010, 12:08 AM

Or what the scene would be like if all those Berklee kids had clubs to play at?

TheRifleman

06-28-2010, 11:25 AM

Some Union workers claimed that FILENES project might be a go soon. They did not have details just rumors.

ANybody on this board hear of anything?

blade_bltz

06-28-2010, 04:24 PM

I think it's more complicated because jazz is, or has become, a "fine art" whose basic vocabulary requires years of formal training to learn, much less master. Boston happens to be the home of several of the finest jazz education programs in the world. This means it attracts countless promising musicians for at least the span of a few years. Beyond that, of course, is another question. So it seems problem in this case is just another instance of Boston's larger problem of retaining students after graduation. Look at this very telling article (http://www.examiner.com/x-16964-NY-Culture-Examiner~y2010m3d31-The-New-England-Conservatoryshaping-New-Yorks-music-scene), in which a San Francisco newspaper writer on the NYC arts beat illustrates Boston's role in sustaining NYC's jazz scene. The snide but honest conclusion of the article: "Whether the institution is in the heart of Manhattan or all the way up in Massachusetts, all roads lead to our fair city."

Also, since you mentioned San Francisco, I thought I'd mention a few interesting developments in that city. (1) Sometime last year or the year before, the legendary Jazz at Pearl's club in North Beach closed its doors. Pearl's was located right along one of the City's busiest streets (for nightlife and tourism), and provided just the kind of atmosphere people in this thread want to replicate. Yet it wasn't able to survive. (2) Yoshi's Jazz club in Oakland - a world class institution in a second-best location (like the Regattabar) - tried to replicate its success with a second club in San Francisco. Within a year or two, they were forced to radically expand their show offerings because jazz wasn't selling tickets. The Oakland club still seems to be doing fine. (3) Thanks to private philanthropy, SF is getting this thing, the SFJazz Center:

http://www.sfjazz.org/images/image.php?width=420&image=/images/center/jazzcenter1.jpg

Similar to NYC's Jazz at Lincoln Center, it will be a space/concert hall dedicated purely to jazz and new home of the organizers of SF's jazz festival. While not affiliated with any college or university, it's still another example of the increased importance of institutional support in helping jazz thrive.

kennedy

06-28-2010, 04:29 PM

Exactly: we have some of the greatest talent in the nation (the world?). How can the public take advantage of that? By injecting it into everyday lives. I'd posit that the reason jazz has become such an 'elitist art' is precisely because it's institutionalized. I bet students would love the opportunity to play in swanky (or not so swanky) jazz bars in the city. Give them a chance to relax and maybe even improvise (shocker! just what jazz is!). Just don't call the bar a "Jazz Bar."

Where's KZ, he should be able to weigh in on the student performer aspect.

czsz

06-28-2010, 10:28 PM

The key to successful jazz places is thinking small. I've been to jazz clubs in New York that could barely cram in 30 seats. They survived by lack of overhead.

BosDevelop

06-29-2010, 05:14 PM

why does it have to be jazz only? Can't we have a venue downtown somewhere that seats 200-400 or so for live music of all kinds with decent drinks and light food? Does such a place exist in Boston proper?

czsz

06-29-2010, 05:25 PM

I think the point is that we want lots of even smaller places, not another auditorium-sized "venue".

gooseberry

06-29-2010, 06:15 PM

Too bad they globbered a bunch of little place to put in the HOB. Does Wally's still have students playing during the day? They used to.

kz1000ps

06-30-2010, 03:25 PM

How can the public take advantage of that? By injecting it into everyday lives.

Up the amount of permits given out to musician buskers, especially in subway stations.

I'd posit that the reason jazz has become such an 'elitist art' is precisely because it's institutionalized.

Yes, by today's standards jazz being so institutonalized is a turn-off to many, but it was only after jazz was overshadowed by rock and roll (which you could argue dumbed down the average listener's ear) that it became something to be studied.

palindrome

06-30-2010, 03:28 PM

I wish we had a couple more small comedy clubs too.

HenryAlan

06-30-2010, 03:58 PM

I wish we had a couple more small comedy clubs too.

I'm not sure there is a market for that. There used to be quite a few more comedy clubs, and most of them closed.

Beton Brut

06-30-2010, 04:30 PM

...but it was only after jazz was overshadowed by rock and roll (which you could argue dumbed down the average listener's ear) that it became something to be studied.

An astute observation.

Ron Newman

06-30-2010, 04:43 PM

I don't think there is any limit on the number of subway busker permits.

kz1000ps

06-30-2010, 05:23 PM

I don't take the subway much, but how come the only time I see a busker is at Park Street? Is it only profitable (relatively speaking) to do that at the busiest stops in the system? Why on earth aren't there Berklee, BoCo or NEC students playing in Hynes, Copley, Kenmore, Symphony, ect.?

BostonUrbEx

06-30-2010, 05:31 PM

There are regulars at North Station (upper level, near Garden tunnel), South Station (Red Line Inbound), Government Center (Blue Line), State Street (Anywhere), Downtown Crossing (Anywhere), and Park Street (Red Line), Kenmore (during game nights), Harvard (Inbound).

That's all that I know of as far as regular sightings.

czsz

06-30-2010, 06:02 PM

Why on earth aren't there Berklee, BoCo or NEC students playing in Hynes, Copley, Kenmore, Symphony, ect.?

Because they're not that poor and there's kind of a social stigma.

bdurden

06-30-2010, 06:23 PM

They play frequently on Newbury Street.

jass

06-30-2010, 06:51 PM

Boston02124

06-30-2010, 07:30 PM

Harvard Station has a different entertainer every nite at rush hour

Ron Newman

06-30-2010, 10:05 PM

Every station has a location set aside for performers. Some stations are a lot more popular than others. Stations that are under construction (Arlington, Copley) probably don't allow performers right now.

I often see buskers at Davis.

jass

07-01-2010, 01:10 AM

HenryAlan

07-01-2010, 12:56 PM

They are regularly present at Back Bay station, both on the Orange Line and Commuter Rail platforms. There's an old guy who plays electric guitar who one time performed a perfect fusion of Dylan and Henrix's respective takes on All Along the Watchtower. Really good stuff, and there are a few others with a decent talent level to make the wait time more enjoyable.

armpitsOFmight

07-11-2010, 03:15 AM

Have you guys seen the shiny new CVS?

gooseberry

07-12-2010, 12:59 AM

Have you guys seen the shiny new CVS?
Sweet, there aren't enough drug store chains downtown. *sarcasm*

Ron Newman

07-12-2010, 01:08 AM

There's only one drug store chain downtown -- we'd be better off with some competition.

riffgo

07-12-2010, 03:28 AM

You bet. This one stimulates my gag reflex !

gooseberry

07-12-2010, 05:23 AM

I meant chain drug store locations. There are drug stores every 3 feet. I can think of at least 7 CVS's and a Walgreen's.

Ron Newman

07-12-2010, 06:44 AM

Where is there a Walgreen's?

statler

07-12-2010, 07:53 AM

Bowdoin Sq

KentXie

07-12-2010, 12:14 PM

Bowdoin Sq

I think that's a Brook's pharmacy, not Walgreens.

statler

07-12-2010, 12:27 PM

^^I'm an idiot. It's a Rite-Aid. I go there almost once a day. I have no idea how I got that wrong.

CDubs

07-12-2010, 12:30 PM

There's a Walgreens near the BPL on Boylston.

KentXie

07-12-2010, 04:03 PM

^^I'm an idiot. It's a Rite-Aid. I go there almost once a day. I have no idea how I got that wrong.

Just found out Rite-Aid bought Brooks. I'm behind the times.

AmericanFolkLegend

07-12-2010, 05:14 PM

Seems like the stores have been more poorly managed since Rite Aid took over.

gooseberry

07-13-2010, 02:33 AM

A CVS is a Walgreens is a Brooks is a Rite Aid, I really can't tell the difference.

AmericanFolkLegend

07-13-2010, 08:43 AM

CVS > Walgrees > Rite Aid

mass88

07-13-2010, 12:30 PM

Walgreens is by far the best of the chain drug stores. CVS just started putting in self checkout and it is a joke. They almost always have to call up cashiers to handle the lines that form.

BostonUrbEx

07-13-2010, 06:15 PM

I used to like Walgreens more, but the new CVS's are much nicer. Then again, I haven't been in a new Walgreens. CVS is clearly expanding at a higher rate.

kz1000ps

07-13-2010, 07:34 PM

jass

07-13-2010, 09:20 PM

Rite Aid sucks, AND they aren't doing well. Their debt load is massive (from buying Brooks Eckerd a few years back) and their stores have been losing money year-over for a year now. Bankruptcy isn't far off.

They bought thrifty in california.

The good part is that they kept the thrifty classic ice cream counters. Two GIANT scoops of very good ice cream for $1.35

The bad is, they have no employees. Last time I went, I was about to pass an item through the metal detector things to see if the beeping would bring an employee to the front of the store.

HenryAlan

07-14-2010, 10:23 AM

kennedy

07-14-2010, 10:29 AM

There's this roast beef chain in St. Louis - nothing special, mind you - but they do sell a small $0.14 soft serve ice cream cone. No idea how much it affects their bottom line, but people get them all the time.

Lrfox

07-14-2010, 05:20 PM

I get really cheap Swedish meatballs and cinnamon rolls at Ikea. It's crap, but it's cheap (actually the cinnamon roll is good).

czsz

07-14-2010, 05:50 PM

Let's get this back on topic. Ikea for Downtown Crossing! Screw their one size fits all suburban parking lot format; if Home Depot can go urban, so can they.

I guarantee it would be a big enough injection of life into the place that you could turn Filene's into a sheep pasture or whatever architecture students would have it become and the neighborhood would still be livelier than it was in 1998.

jass

07-15-2010, 02:09 AM

When I was growing up, a single scoop cone at Thrifty was 10 cents. And I'm not that old. They kept that price for a long time past when ice cream had become much more expensive. $1.35 is still a good deal, but I'd be curious to see what is more profitable, the occasional $1.35 cone, or the very high volume 10 cent cone.

I think it's 1.05 for a single scoop cone.

The thing that makes it cheap is comparing to chains like baskin robbins, marble slab, coldstone etc. Youre talking $3+ for a couple of scoops. As far as I know, it's still the cheapest way to get a cone (obviously buying a gallon saves you money)

But yeah, according to the internet, 10 cent scoops lasted until the 1980s.

kz1000ps

08-03-2010, 01:56 PM

New approach, new hope for Downtown Crossing

City turns to commercial owners for help in renewal
By Casey Ross
Globe Staff / August 3, 2010

Boston officials are set to approve the city’s first business improvement district in Downtown Crossing tomorrow, a move that will raise millions of dollars to improve the gritty shopping area and provide a model for cash-strapped districts such as the Rose Fitzgerald Kennedy Greenway.

The district, to be voted on tomorrow by the City Council, would levy a fee on commercial property owners who agree to pay extra for stepped-up cleaning and promotional services in a 20-block area around Downtown Crossing.

Nearly 480 property owners have signed a petition to participate.

“Within the next five years, Downtown Crossing is going to be a much different place,’’ said Mayor Thomas M. Menino, a strong supporter of the effort. “We’re not going to be like some other cities that have given up on their downtowns. We see a great future for our downtown.’’

A business improvement district, or BID, would provide a critical boost for a once-promi nent shopping area now pockmarked with empty storefronts and a giant hole where construction stalled on the $700 million redevelopment of the former Filene’s site.

Menino said yesterday that there is increasing interest among possible investors in the Filene’s project, as developer Vornado Realty Trust explores a sale of its stake in the deal. However, the city is waiting for the project to get a financial backer that can move it forward. “Until the paper is signed on a deal, we’re still in discussion mode,’’ Menino said.

City officials see the improvement district as a mechanism to lift struggling downtown neighborhoods, which would otherwise fight for funding against priorities such as education and public safety. Managers of the Greenway are exploring the establishment of a BID around the downtown park system, and civic leaders in the Bulfinch Triangle have expressed interest in a similar organization for that area.

Across the country, BIDs are used to fund special upgrades to public spaces when government dollars won’t get the job done. In New York City, for example, they’ve been used to revitalize Times Square and upgrade Bryant Park, an area once dominated by drug dealers, but now features restaurants, intricate landscaping, and outdoor festivals.

In Boston, however, previous attempts to create an improvement district have run into political opposition. The city’s most powerful police union opposed creation of a BID in Downtown Crossing in the late 1990s, for example, arguing that proposed security services would undermine police authority.

The latest effort sidestepped that issue. District organizers promised to create a team of “ambassadors’’ whose primary responsibilities will be to assist tourists and refer security or vandalism problems to police.

At a City Council hearing yesterday, the proposed district received unanimous support from councilors, Downtown Crossing business owners, and residents.

“Not only is it going to bring back cleanliness and safety, it will bring the heart back to the city of Boston,’’ said Linda DeMarco, owner of Boston Pretzel Bakery Inc., which operates a pushcart in the area.

If the district is approved, the city will begin collecting a fee from commercial property owners within the boundaries of the district in the third quarter of this year. Property owners will pay $1.10 per thousand dollars on the first $70 million in the assessed value of their holdings in the district, and 50 cents per thousand dollars for any value beyond that limit.

The money will be given to a nonprofit group in charge of hiring the ambassadors and cleaning contractors, developing promotional materials, producing special events, and creating a more unified street design for the area.

Owner-occupied residential properties are exempt from the district fees, and commercial property owners may decline participation by filing paperwork with the city. So far, 478 landowners have signed up, representing about 64 percent of the property in the neighborhood. One of the major holdouts is Equity Office Properties, which owns 175 Federal St. and 225 Franklin St., among other properties.

A spokeswoman for Equity said executives with the company are still discussing participation with BID organizers.

Link (http://www.boston.com/business/articles/2010/08/03/new_hope_for_bostons_downtown_crossing/)

czsz

08-03-2010, 01:58 PM

In Boston, however, previous attempts to create an improvement district have run into political opposition. The city’s most powerful police union opposed creation of a BID in Downtown Crossing in the late 1990s, for example, arguing that proposed security services would undermine police authority.

Sounds like the typical sort of tribal bullshit that typically holds Boston back.

Still, I wonder if this is too little, too late for DTC. Its problems are a bit too fundamental right now for some extra street cleaning and flowerboxes to fix.

Shepard

08-03-2010, 02:08 PM

I seem to remember reading, before the recession, about talks with Harrod's to open a flagship North America store here. That strikes me as the kind of idea that could revitalize large destination urban shopping without selling out to a Target or Ikea.

czsz

08-03-2010, 02:11 PM

Harrod's is in a weird state right now. They closed their one branch (Buenos Aires) and are contemplating opening one in Shanghai. It'd seem strange to me if they decided on a Boston branch rather than one in New York, if they came to North America at all.

statler

08-03-2010, 02:21 PM

Wouldn't DTX be too downmarket for Harrod's?

vanshnookenraggen

08-03-2010, 03:26 PM

'bout frickin time.

jass

08-03-2010, 04:12 PM

czsz

08-03-2010, 04:24 PM

Yeah, but Wagamama isn't as massive / high end. You need a serious critical mass of very wealthy people to sustain a Harrod's, I think.

AmericanFolkLegend

08-03-2010, 05:01 PM

Still, I wonder if this is too little, too late for DTC.

A bit early to be writing an obituary for DTX. Location is just too good.

czsz

08-03-2010, 05:08 PM

I mean too little, too late until there's an actual resurgence in the retail on offer and the hole in the midst of it all gets filled.

I'm not sure the location is that fantastic, anyway. How does squeezed between the empty-at-night Financial District and the Common a "natural" retail district make, anyway? Sure, it has great T access, but that doesn't seem to have arrested its decline. Maybe it's a long-term issue arising from South Bay gradually filling the vital retail needs of the inner city population. Or of gentrification making the boutique Back Bay a better-suited retail core.

All the life being breathed into DTC now has to do with the theatres and the colleges, but their presence there doesn't have much to do with its location, really. Nor will they contribute much to, or be significantly impacted by, the benefits of the BID.

briv

08-03-2010, 06:29 PM

I think it's time we looked beyond the idea that DTX has to be some kind of premiere shopping district/urban mall. It's abundantly clear that it can't compete with car-friendly shopping malls. I'd re-open Washington up to traffic and try to get people living above those stores, among other things.

Single-use districts are a bad idea, IMO, regardless of what that use might be. An exclusive shopping district is as bad as an exclusive office district, or whatever.

commuter guy

08-03-2010, 09:15 PM

^
Agreed. I can't take credit for it, but it was someone on this Forum who pointed out that back in the good old shopping days of DTX there was no Cambridgeside Galleria directly North of Downtown, no South Bay or S. Shore Plza to the the South and there's certainly more retail now in the Back Bay and Fenway compared to back then too. Downtown Crossing will never regain the same retail vitality it once had. The way forward is more mixed use along with retail. It's still the core of the city and has great streetscapes and buildings all around so I think good things will come eventually, but it's moving at a snails pace now.

bdurden

08-03-2010, 09:42 PM

Washington Street is begging to be reopened to street traffic. It could quickly gain to vibrancy of a London Street (about the same typical building heights and street widths).

czsz

08-03-2010, 10:24 PM

What exactly would opening it to traffic achieve? A few people can be dropped off by car a little closer to their destination? It's already clogged with trucks and emergency vehicles all the time.

bdurden

08-03-2010, 10:58 PM

For one it would stop reminding us of what a big failure downtown crossing has become as a pedestrian mall.

Pierce

08-03-2010, 11:26 PM

How about we open Washington street but close tremont from park to boylston or get it down to one or, god, two lanes), thickening the edge of the common to something fitting its use, and populate it with cafes, outdoor seating, etc (a las ramblas in bcn). There is tons of traffic outside park street t station: tourist, commuter, resident, you name it. In my personal "image of the city" it has always been Boston ground zero, from my first visit to now. As of now we cut it off from dtx by a 4 lane gauntlet of always speeding vehicles. An interesting precedent perhaps is also in Spain, the mid-level ped-only shopping streets between puerta del sol and gran via in Madrid. Leaving the metro you don't just pop up in the cavernous, double-loaded shopping streets or in a dept store, but in a spacious, iconic plaza, that acts as collector and funnel into the streets (very similarly scaled to winter street and the like, thou Washington street is much nearer than gran via). Thoughts? I'm thinking this all for the first time as I type, so i may not agree with myself in a few minutes.....

Shepard

08-03-2010, 11:55 PM

Washington (where it is open) currently runs in the opposite direction as Tremont, so your plan (which I think I like) may also need to involve reversing the direction of Washington to act as the main thoroughfare from Government Center to Boylston Street.

On the other hand, Tremont could be reduced without forcing any increase in capacity elsewhere. I do like the idea of taking a lane for outdoor seating, and agree it would connect Park Street station with Winter Street much more nicely.

Ron Newman

08-04-2010, 12:35 AM

I see no benefit from opening Washington Street to car traffic. The pedestrian mall worked just fine until the Federated and May department store chains merged, which led to the closing of Filene's.

czsz

08-04-2010, 01:01 AM

I like Pierce's idea for Tremont.

I don't think the pedestrian mall was ever a major problem for Washington Street (nor was it much benefit). The success of pedestrian malls only ever correlates to the success of their surrounding neighborhoods.

bdurden

08-04-2010, 09:54 AM

Washington Street was never really a pedestrian mall anyway. It was nothing more than a street closed to vehicular traffic. This was partly a planning problem -- there is hardly reason to engage in the pedestrian zone because it's merely a walkway rather than a destination. This is why there is no reason to maintain it as a car free zone.

I, too, like Pierce's plan to narrow Tremont and build a grand promenade along the Commons.

Examples of good pedestrian malls:

Lincoln Rd, Miami Beach
Las Ramblas, Barcelona (which is so good, actually, that it doesn't even need retail to anchor it)
Faneuil Hall / Quincy Market, Boston

Ron Newman

08-04-2010, 09:56 AM

Also Church Street in Burlington VT and Third Street in Santa Monica CA, though I haven't been back to either one in a long time.

BostonUrbEx

08-04-2010, 10:04 AM

I'd love to see Park and Tremont turn into something just like Winter and Washington, but Tremont is a pretty big deal. *Something* would have to change.

Beacon is westbound west of Charles, two way from there to Park, and one way for there until roughly One Beacon where's it's then two way very briefly until Tremont. Just make this whole thing westbound. Tremont after it's intersection with School and Beacon can be reduced to 2 lanes that are only for emergency vehicles, delivery trucks, and bikes. Free traffic is allowed south of West St (where traffic is forced off of Washington). Also, Bromfield will have to be reversed just so no one makes a run around and traffic isn't going through the designated ped mall.

statler

08-04-2010, 10:10 AM

Can you imagine the outcry if someone seriously proposed building along the edge of the Common?

My god, it would be deafening.

aquaman

08-04-2010, 10:22 AM

...I, too, like Pierce's plan to narrow Tremont and build a grand promenade along the Commons.

Examples of good pedestrian malls:

Lincoln Rd, Miami Beach
Las Ramblas, Barcelona (which is so good, actually, that it doesn't even need retail to anchor it)
Faneuil Hall / Quincy Market, Boston

I disagree in one respect. If one lane of Tremont is to close, it ought to be the eastern-most lane which lines the commercial zone, not the side bordering the Common. Nothing can be built on the Common and, therefore, it will not become a mecca for activity. At most, you might get one burger shack and some pushcarts, but not a permanent improvement nor dynamic public space. I believe that adding one traffic lane wide pedestrian walkway along an already existing broad expanse of open space (one with all kinds of building and development restrictions) will do little to serve the public.

Closing the eastern-most lane of Tremont, however, will provide a broad promenade along potential storefronts, restaurants, theatre and residential buildings. You cite Lincoln Rd. (which, I agree, is terrific public space), but look a couple of blocks south to Ocean Drive. The far busier side of the street is along the restaurant and hotel side, NOT the beach/park side. Expanding the open space on Ocean Drive would do little, but expanding the sidewalk edging the hotels -- golden. People want to congregate among buildings where they can duck in and out of shops, sit down for a coffee, pick up a newspaper and, generally, watch the parade of people gonig by. If we've learned one thing from the RKG (so far), it's that simply expanding space with nothing on its edge does not draw in people. So if one lane of Tremont were to close, it should be the lane immediately abutting existing commercial space, not undevelopable land.

Beton Brut

08-04-2010, 10:22 AM

Also Church Street in Burlington VT and Third Street in Santa Monica CA, though I haven't been back to either one in a long time.

It's been too long since I visited Burlington, but I was on Third Street in March. Lots of foot-traffic but it's become more generic since my first visit there in 1997.

Shepard

08-04-2010, 10:24 AM

Well reasoned, Aquaman.

aquaman

08-04-2010, 10:24 AM

bdurden

08-04-2010, 10:33 AM

I disagree in one respect. If one lane of Tremont is to close, it ought to be the eastern-most lane which lines the commercial zone, not the side bordering the Common. Nothing can be built on the Common and, therefore, it will not become a mecca for activity. At most, you might get one burger shack and some pushcarts, but not a permanent improvement nor dynamic public space. I believe that adding one traffic lane wide pedestrian walkway along an already existing broad expanse of open space (one with all kinds of building and development restrictions) will do little to serve the public.

Closing the eastern-most lane of Tremont, however, will provide a broad promenade along potential storefronts, restaurants, theatre and residential buildings. You cite Lincoln Rd. (which, I agree, is terrific public space), but look a couple of blocks south to Ocean Drive. The far busier side of the street is along the restaurant and hotel side, NOT the beach/park side. Expanding the open space on Ocean Drive would do little, but expanding the sidewalk edging the hotels -- golden. People want to congregate among buildings where they can duck in and out of shops, sit down for a coffee, pick up a newspaper and, generally, watch the parade of people gonig by. If we've learned one thing from the RKG (so far), it's that simply expanding space with nothing on its edge does not draw in people. So if one lane of Tremont were to close, it should be the lane immediately abutting existing commercial space, not undevelopable land.

Good post -- this sounds like an even better plan. Improve the Common by once and for all appropriately developing the Common entrance (translation: fixing the piecemeal efforts from the 70s thru present that now looks dingy at best) and widen the commercial zone akin to Ocean Drive or Champs Elysees.

archBOSTON.org > Boston's Built Environment > New Development > Downtown Crossing

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Mike

08-09-2010, 07:57 PM

Skipping out on BID tax
Nstar, other landlords may not ante up for Hub retail district
By Thomas Grillo
Monday, August 9, 2010

Despite a successful campaign to convince Downtown Crossing landlords to pay more taxes to improve the troubled shopping district, several landlords are balking.

Last week, the Boston City Council approved the city’s first Business Improvement District, or BID, covering a 50-block-area downtown that expects to raise more than $4 million.

Nearly 480 property owners signed a support petition and a letter was mailed to 504 landlords who own 744 parcels in the district. The newfound cash will be used for street cleaning teams, uniformed “ambassadors” and marketing.

Under the plan, which has the enthusiastic support of Mayor Thomas M. Menino, the city would levy a tax on merchants from $200 to more than $200,000 annually, generating up to $4.5 million. Landlords have 30 days to opt out of the new tax by notifying the City Clerk.

Nstar, the utility giant that owns a building on Chauncy Street, declined to participate. The company is being asked to pay an additional $14,000.

“We’re already the largest taxpayer in the city having paid $48 million last year, and we expect to pay in excess of $50 million next year,” said spokeswoman Caroline Allen. “We have to be very careful about how we spend our customers’ money.”

Another Downtown Crossing landlord, who declined to be identified for fear of retribution from City Hall, said he will not pay the tax and called the Menino administration “fascists.”

“They don’t understand the concept of private property,” the owner said.

The biggest landlord in Downtown Crossing, Equity Office, is undecided. A source said the company - which owns five buildings in the BID and pays more than $20 million in real estate taxes - is reluctant to pay more given that commercial property values have slid in the recession.

The BID is the latest initiative supported by Menino to spruce up the gritty shopping district. Two years ago, the Boston Redevelopment Authority spent $800,000 on another study for the district.

The city has installed flower beds, benches and art in vacant storefronts, and limited traffic, but shoppers still favor suburban shopping malls, the retailers on Newbury and Boylston streets and the offerings at the Prudential Center.

The Filene’s block redevelopment, stalled since the fall 2008 economic meltdown, gave the district another black eye while sales at the luxury condo project at 45 Province have been slow.

Ronald Druker, president of the Druker Cos., owner of the Orpheum Theater, the Corner Mall and the Jewelers Building on Washington Street, is among dozens of cheerleaders for the extra tax.

“Having the BID in place will enhance the neighborhood and retail environment and make it more attractive,” he said.

Donna DePrisco, owner of DePrisco Jewelers, also supports the BID, saying the extra money will be a tremendous help. But she said the Filene’s site needs to be redeveloped as soon as possible.

“Unless Filene’s is taken care of, nothing will happen here,” she said. “Anything that could be done there at any price would be a welcome addition, as opposed to leaving it the way it is. It’s extremely depressing. No one wants to come here.”

Link (http://bostonherald.com/business/general/view.bg?articleid=1273213&position=0)

czsz

08-09-2010, 09:53 PM

“Unless Filene’s is taken care of, nothing will happen here,” she said. “Anything that could be done there at any price would be a welcome addition, as opposed to leaving it the way it is. It’s extremely depressing. No one wants to come here.”

Bingo. What is the BID going to do, beyond laying even more flowers around Filene's gravesite?

Lurker

08-10-2010, 01:11 PM

The BID could do something about the horrible asphalt sidewalks that the city somehow thinks are perfectly fine for a central downtown location.

TheRifleman

08-10-2010, 01:49 PM

The BID could do something about the horrible asphalt sidewalks that the city somehow thinks are perfectly fine for a central downtown location.

Lurker,

Can some of the retails that could end up bankrupt start to take legal action against the BRA, the City or Vornado for the disaster that they created?

Lurker

08-11-2010, 09:44 PM

Any lawsuit would be counter productive. The city is too corrupt to pin anything on without repercussions, and going after Vornado would only provide an excuse to back out of or further delay development.

TheRifleman

08-12-2010, 10:35 AM

I thought this was a free country?

City hits store landlord
Bookstore space open since 2006
By Thomas Grillo
Thursday, August 12, 2010 - Updated 9 hours ago
+ Recent Articles

E-mail Print (15) Comments Text size Share Buzz up!Four years after a Downtown Crossing bookstore closed, the city is blasting the landlord for refusing to lease the space and letting the building fall into disrepair.

“It’s very frustrating to have such a prime location stay empty for so long,” said Randi Lathrop, the Boston Redevelopment Authority’s community planning deputy director. “It’s a mystery to us why it continues to be vacant. The only explanation is that the owner is asking way too much rent.”

After 30 years at 395-403 Washington St., Barnes & Noble closed in 2006 when the retailer was unable to reach an agreement with its landlord, Robert Posner, on a new lease.

Today, the 63,733-square-foot property across from the former Filene’s building is still empty and there are no prospects to fill the five-story building.

Since the bookstore left, the city has helped steer retailers seeking space downtown to Posner, but a lease never gets signed, Lathrop said.

“Lots of property owners are willing to lower the rent to make a deal happen,” she said. “But at the end of the day, it doesn’t work out with Mr. Posner for whatever reason.”

Lathrop also noted that she has sent BRA staff to clean the outside of the building, removing posters and stickers at no charge.

Posner refused to speak to the Herald yesterday.

Mark Browne, a principal at Berenson Browne Advisors, a downtown retail broker, said Posner is seeking $125 per square foot on the first floor and $65 for the upper floors - numbers that Browne calls “distorted.”

“Nearly every tenant that has any interest in the city of Boston has looked at that space and walked away without a deal because of Posner’s unrealistic expectations of market value,” Browne said. “The ground-floor space is worth about $70 per foot and upstairs is valued at $30.”

Browne said office-supply chain Staples, discounters Filene’s Basement and T.J. Maxx and apparel retailers Zara and Forever 21 have all looked at the space and wanted do a deal. “But Posner is afraid to leave a penny on the table,” he said.

http://www.bostonherald.com/business/real_estate/view/20100812city_hits_store_landlord_bookstore_space_o pen_since_2006/

statler

08-12-2010, 10:41 AM

I thought this was a free country?

Depends on how you define free, I suppose. If by "free" you mean free of laws, rules, regulations and consequences of your actions, than, no, we've never lived in a 'free' country. Sorry.

TheRifleman

08-12-2010, 10:44 AM

Now the BRA is telling him to rent the space. Our State and Federal tax laws probably make it easy for him at this point to keep the building vacant.

That is the true reality.

type001

08-12-2010, 11:54 AM

Now the BRA is telling him to rent the space. Our State and Federal tax laws probably make it easy for him at this point to keep the building vacant.

That is the true reality.

Where did you read that the BRA is telling him to do this? Blasting is not the same thing. It's the BRA's freedom of speech to criticize the landlord for not lowering the rent, which I think most agree with.

Nobody's freedom has actually been infringed upon here.

Shepard

08-12-2010, 12:07 PM

I bet that space was worth much more before they Dresdened the other side of the street. Owner is probably wishing he'd leased it earlier at a reasonable market rate, but who knows what his thinking is now, though. BRA has a complete right to call him out on this, in any case.

TheRifleman

08-12-2010, 12:19 PM

Boston02124

08-12-2010, 08:42 PM

Today sitting at the traffic light at Washington st http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn80/boston02124/boston%20skyline/tampa%20fla/178-1.jpg

JohnAKeith

08-23-2010, 07:01 PM

So, could someone give a synopsis of what happened in the late 1980's in Downtown Crossing?

The way I remember it (and I was just a tyke at the time, of course), Canadian financier Robert Campeau and his Campeau Corporation bought Allied Stores (the company behind Jordan Marsh) in 1986 and then bought Federated Stores (the company behind Filene's and Bloomingdale's) in 1988.

Around the same time, he made a grand proposal to merge several large parcels of land in the Downtown Crossing area into a project given the name "Boston Crossing".

Boston Crossing would have been a massive development near the then-existing Jordan Marsh (now Macy's) and would have included a Bloomingdale's across the street on what is now the parking lot at Hayward Place.

It would have included 1.6 million square feet of office space, 1.5 million square feet of retail space, a hotel with 413,000 square feet of space, and up to 2,000 new parking spaces.

But, it was not to be. Soon after this plan was proposed, Campeau Corporation found itself unable to service its huge debt load. Eventually, both Allied and Federated went into bankruptcy. The name "Jordan Marsh" disappeared, as did "Filene's" and over 250 other department stores chains.

Boston Crossing and the "Commonwealth Center", across the street (where?), were never built, the victims of the financial meltdown in the late 1980's (the stock market dropped more than 500 points the day I interviewed for my first job, if memory serves).

EDIT: Actually, Phase I was built - at least, the new Jordan Marsh and Lafayette Place part. There were no new high-rises, but the retail portion was built. It was a complete failure. It was almost always empty and few stores ever opened.

Phase II, the Hayward Place / Bloomingdale's development, was never built (obviously). The BRA held onto this and eventually sold it to Millennium Partners after it built the Ritz Carlton Towers. It remains to this day a parking lot.

The plans for Downtown Crossing were made about the same time the city of Boston, under its esteemed mayor, Raymond Flynn, proposed a new "Midtown Cultural District", which was envisioned as a vibrant city center full of live theater and dance halls, some existing, some to be built. Although several of the projects came to be, much of it remains only in our imaginations.

Do I have any of this right?

http://johnakeithrealestate.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/BostonCrossing1.png

http://johnakeithrealestate.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/BostonCrossing2.png

http://johnakeithrealestate.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/BostonCrossing3.png

http://johnakeithrealestate.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/BostonCrossing4.png

http://johnakeithrealestate.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/BostonCrossing5.png

http://johnakeithrealestate.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/DTXNew.png

czsz

08-23-2010, 07:06 PM

I'm not a huge fan of PoMo in general, but the clocktower would have been a nice focal point, certainly better than the present Macy's. A Bloomingdale's on Hayward Place may have survived and served as another important DTC anchor tenant. Hard to know if the mall would have both benefited and benefited from a DTC revival, like the Pru complex, or suffered the same fate as the Lafayette Place mall.

JohnAKeith

08-23-2010, 08:02 PM

More about Boston Crossing, Commonwealth Center, and the Midtown Cultural District, a long-forgotten proposal to bring new life to the area in and around Boston's theater district.

The midtown spark
Boston Globe Editorial
June 12, 1989

Lower Washington Street, the most dilapidated section of downtown Boston, is about to be transformed because of an alliance of developers, the cultural community and the Boston Redevelopment Authority. The launching of two developments worth a combined $1.3 billion is evidence that the economic strength of Boston can be marshaled to make the city a vital and attractive place.

The two developments, which will be presented to the BRA board Thursday, are made for each other.

On the southern side of Washington Street, the owners of Jordan Marsh will build the Boston Crossing office and shopping complex. It will include two 31-story office towers, a redesigned Jordan's, an expanded and re-configured mall on the site of Lafayette Place and a new Bloomingdale's.

Many of the customers for these stores will come from the proposed Commonwealth Center across the street. This development will consist of a 400-room hotel, a refurbished Paramount Theater and 27-story and 31-story towers.

Together, these developments will be the spark that ignites the Midtown Cultural District. This plan, first sketched by the Boston cultural community and Arts Commissioner Bruce Rossley, will use developers' linkage money to refurbish 10 old theaters and transform the tattered midtown district into the performance center of the city.

Barring an economic debacle***, the first of the Commonwealth Center towers will be ready for tenants in 1992, just before the opening of Bloomingdale's, the new Jordan's and the expanded mall.

At the same time, the developers have pledged to renovate four theaters, including the two carved from the cavernous Paramount. The combination of business, hotel, shopping, a and cultural activity will guarantee that lower Washington Street will be active day and night.

The forbidding gray facade of Lafayette Place will be replaced by eight street-front shops and five mall entrances to entice pedestrians. The new Jordan's will try to replicate the grandeur of the 1890's store that was torn down in the 1970's to make way for a red brick non-entity.

Across the street, Commonwealth Center will be a smaller and improved version of a development that has been in the discussion stage for four years. Its two towers will be a point of unity between the two business centers of the city - the Financial District and the Back Bay.

Mayor Flynn and the BRA deserve praise for beginning the midtown redevelopment as a[n] extension of the downtown shopping district. By encouraging 400-foot towers in lower Washington Street, they allowed the developers to think big - but no on the grandiose scale of the 600-foot skyscrapers of a decade ago.

Beginning about a year ago, the BRA encouraged the two development teams ... with impressive results. The Boston Crossing stores and the Paramount Theater will be among the first to open; with them, an active street life will begin. Construction of the office towers will be spaced so that they will not compete with each other for tenants.

The BRA also managed to extract a set of public benefits from the developers. Refurbishment of the four theaters will cost $15 million. More than $20 million will be spent on housing and a community center in Chinatown. A job-training center an a day-care facility will be included in each complex. Money will be allotted for the upkeep of [the] Boston Common.

The Chinatown Neighborhood Council will vote on the benefits package today; Council support is important because Chinatown and the Midtown Cultural District are neighbors and potential competitors for other parcels of land. The involvement of the Asian community is vital; it will enable the community to withstand pressures generated by further development along Washington Street.

Before the BRA board approves the developments, several issues need to be addressed. Under present plans, the Commonwealth Center towers and the Bloomingdale's skyscraper would cast shadows over the Common.

Negotiations are underway between the developer and ... groups to minimize the mass of the new buildings, described by one architect as "a bit overweight". The buildings should go on a slight diet to cut down the shadow and to address the Boston Society of Architects' concerns about the visual impact of three tightly-bunched towers.

Another issue is the lack of outdoor spaces like the pleasant Shoppers Park next to Filene's. A small area with benches should be set aside for weary shoppers and pedestrians.

These problems are easily solvable, and should not detract from the favorable impact the two developments will have on the city. In three or four years, lower Washington Street will be transformed into a shopping, working, and entertainment hub for the region - a tribute to the developers' acumen, the cultural community's vision, and the BRA's foresight.

*** Whoops! An "economic debacle" is exactly what transpired. Campeau Corporation went belly-up, the US entered into a recession, Bonfire of the Vanities, etc., etc., etc.

It took another decade before the residential towers were built, under new management, and two decades before the Paramount Theater renovation was completed.

I'd say the city had nothing to do with the area's rebirth; I'd give 90% of the credit to Emerson College, with an assist from Suffolk University and the United States economy under William Jefferson Clinton.

JohnAKeith

08-23-2010, 08:06 PM

Finally (I promise), here are some of the plans for new and existing theaters to be a part of the new "Midtown Cultural District" proposed in the mid- to late-1980's for the theater district / Combat Zone.

http://johnakeithrealestate.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/MCD2.png

http://johnakeithrealestate.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/MCD6.png

http://johnakeithrealestate.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/MCD1.png

http://johnakeithrealestate.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/MCD3a.png

http://johnakeithrealestate.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/MCD3b.png

http://johnakeithrealestate.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/MCD3c.png

Ron Newman

08-23-2010, 08:10 PM

The 'new' Jordan Marsh and Lafayette Place long predated Campeau's Boston Crossing proposal. His plan would have replaced Lafayette Place entirely with new construction.

When Campeau merged Allied Stores (which owned Jordan Marsh) with Federated (which owned Filene's), anti-trust regulators required him to divest one of the two Boston chains. He kept Jordan Marsh and sold Filene's to May Department Stores.

Commonwealth Center was an unrelated development proposal across the street. After it failed, the land sat vacant for a while, and eventually became Millennium Place (now Ritz-Carlton Towers)

Ron Newman

08-23-2010, 08:23 PM

The current status of the theatres listed above:

Modern: demolished and rebuilt, with original façade intact, by Suffolk University; will reopen this fall

Opera House: restored by a Texas for-profit, now merged into Live Nation

Paramount: partially demolished and then rebuilt and restored by Emerson College

State: demolished, site now contains Ritz-Carlton Tower (and part of Loews Boston Common multiplex cinema)

Pagoda: now Emperor's Garden Chinese restaurant

Pilgrim: demolished, site now contains Archstone Boston Common apartments

Majestic: restored by Emerson College

Steinert Hall: still vacant, used as warehouse space by M. Steinert piano store upstairs

Essex (aka RKO Boston, Cinerama): huge theatre is still vacant and seemingly forgotten

Publix/Gaiety: demolished for never-built Kensington apartments, now a vacant lot

bbfen

08-23-2010, 09:48 PM

Essex (aka RKO Boston, Cinerama): huge theatre is still vacant and seemingly forgotten

Not forgotten. One of the 'helpful' local ladies who lunch demanded that the Berklee School move their performance center to that location. Her rationale was that it would lower the height of the tower and save the world from the shadows.

statler

09-12-2010, 08:12 PM

Boston Globe (http://www.boston.com/business/articles/2010/09/12/in_downtown_crossing_destination_dining_beckons/) - September 12, 2010
New Downtown Crossing hot spots serve up hope
City looks to restaurants to draw back the crowds

By Erin Ailworth, Globe Staff | September 12, 2010

Chef Jacky Robert strolled through the kitchen at his new Downtown Crossing restaurant, pointing out the classic French dishes that have drawn diners to his family’s establishments for decades: the tender duck legs for confit, placed in a tray for crisping; the golden potatoes for a signature side dish; the glazed apples crowning the tarte tatin.

The restaurant Petit Robert Central may be new, but for Robert, the neighborhood is not. A few blocks away, customers once savored the fare at his uncle Lucien’s Maison Robert, a cornerstone of the former shopping mecca that some saw as the hub of the Hub.

Now destination dining is enjoying a revival in Downtown Crossing, which city officials and business owners believe is helping to bring back the struggling district — just as pioneering restaurateurs brought life to the South Boston Seaport District, when the economy stalled development of office space, condos, and shops.

About a dozen upscale restaurants and pubs, from BiNA Osteria to Stoddard’s Fine Food & Ale, have opened recently or will debut in Downtown Crossing in the coming months, in what city officials say is the largest wave of new restaurants there in years. These sit-down establishments represent a shift from the fast food outlets that dot the neighborhood now, and present a striking contrast to the scattered empty storefronts and the gaping construction hole left by the shuttered flagship Filene’s Basement.

“Restaurants, to some extent, can be a destination until the neighborhood develops. People will take a chance to come and find you,’’ said Babak Bina, co-owner of Washington Street’s BiNA Osteria, and a board member at the business association Downtown Crossing Partnership. “They bring attention to the neighborhood. They get people comfortable.’’

Several restaurateurs said they were motivated to expand in Downtown Crossing not only because of city investment in the area — nearly $500,000 since 2006 for restaurant loans, permits, and signage — but also because of Mayor Thomas M. Menino’s personal commitment to turning around Downtown Crossing. Including the new arrivals, the area now has nearly three dozen sit-down restaurants, most notably the venerable Locke-Ober.

Chris Damian, co-owner of the restaurants Scollay Square and Tavern on the Water, said he decided to open Max & Dylans on West Street two years ago, after he noticed Downtown Crossing was being cleaned up.

After “a little bit of marketing, a little bit of working with the people in the neighborhood,’’ he said, business is good, especially with the Boston Ballet now at the nearby Boston Opera House. And with the Broadway musical Wicked now playing there, “we’re slammed,’’ he said.

Location is also a big selling point: the Downtown Crossing T stop is the nexus of the Red, Orange, and Silver subway lines and connects to the Park Street Green Line hub, bringing some 100,000 people to the area daily. An estimated 160,000 people also work in the area, and about 8,000 residents call the place home.

Bradley Fredericks, who has owned Fajitas & ‘Ritas on West Street for 21 years, is bullish enough to open another restaurant next year in Downtown Crossing: the Back Deck, which will serve burgers, steaks, and seafood grilled over charcoal in an open kitchen. “The lease has been signed, we have been awarded the liquor license. Right now, it’s in the architect’s and designer’s hands,’’ he said. “I am very comfortable and familiar with the neighborhood.’’

Restaurants have become the secret ingredient to stimulating places such as the Seaport District, an area, like Downtown Crossing, that has seen the recession stall ambitious development plans.

But then came risk-takers like chef Barbara Lynch, who opened three restaurants there in three years: Drink, Sportello, and the latest one, the luxe Menton, in the spring. The area now boasts about 25 restaurants, with five more on the way.

“It’s exciting to be part of a transformation and an emerging neighborhood,’’ Lynch wrote in an e-mail. “Great restaurants become a destination unto themselves . . . and help establish the ‘personality’ of the locale.’’

Roger Berkowitz, chief executive of Legal Sea Foods, opened Legal Test Kitchen in the Seaport District in 2006 and is scheduled to unveil a flagship Legal Sea Foods on the waterfront this winter. He says expanding in the Seaport has been a gamble that has paid off. While he has looked at spaces in Downtown Crossing, he’s not yet willing to make the same bet on that area.

“One of the disappointments about that area is that it hasn’t accelerated as fast as people had hoped,’’ Berkowitz said. “I suppose it’s easy enough to point the finger at the failed project: the Filene’s Basement site. That was supposed to be the catalyst.’’

The famous bargain basement store closed in 2007 for renovations but has yet to reopen because the building’s developer couldn’t get loans after the financial crisis. In Downtown Crossing’s heyday, in the 1950s and 1960s, shoppers flocked to Filene’s to hunt for deals or browse fashions at Jordan Marsh.

Menino remembers shopping there with his parents as a child, getting blueberry muffins at Jordan’s or checking out the Louisville Sluggers on display at Raymond’s, a department store. The mayor brought his kids there, too, he recalled. And it’s partly that nostalgia that is pushing him to make Downtown Crossing a hub once more.

“We haven’t seen the best of Downtown Crossing,’’ said Menino, “but it’s in the works.’’

It could take years to bring that activity back, said Enrique Silva, assistant professor of city planning and urban affairs at Boston University. He said the empty hole that once was Filene’s Basement reminds some of the blight of the 1970s, when Downtown Crossing abutted the adult entertainment district known as the Combat Zone. “It has, unfortunately, a bad reputation it has to shake off,’’ Silva said.

It can still be tough to make it in Downtown Crossing. Petit Robert Central is moving into the space at 101 Arch St. most recently occupied by Vinalia, and before that Dakota’s — both restaurants that didn’t make it. And Ivy, which serves up Italian, recently filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy. Downtown Crossing resident Bill Ward, who moved two years ago from the Back Bay, said it would “take a lot more than restaurants’’ to make the neighborhood a destination, but places like the upscale pub Stoddard’s are a good start.

“For me, a lot of it is comfort level,’’ Ward said. “I like to come in and sit. I like that they know me.’’

Robert, meanwhile, likes that he already knows the neighborhood that Petit Robert Central will call home.

As he flew around the kitchen last week, Robert said being in Downtown Crossing brings back memories of his hours after work at Maison Robert in the 1970s, when he and Lydia Shire, a salad preparer who later became one of the city’s leading chefs, would explore the area’s clubs. He would like to help remake the district.

“If my uncle had not opened Maison Robert, I probably would not be a chef right now,’’ said Robert. “That’s the reason why I wanted to come back downtown — because that’s where everything started for me.’’

Erin Ailworth can be reached at eailworth@globe.com.

czsz

09-13-2010, 02:43 AM

I guess DTC is just going to have to be resurrected from the bottom up. Pity small businessmen can't rebuild the Filene's site, too.

Boston02124

09-23-2010, 06:13 PM

todays drive by and then back around the block http://i998.photobucket.com/albums/af104/ric02124/222.jpg http://i998.photobucket.com/albums/af104/ric02124/223-1.jpg http://i998.photobucket.com/albums/af104/ric02124/227.jpg http://i998.photobucket.com/albums/af104/ric02124/229-1.jpg http://i998.photobucket.com/albums/af104/ric02124/230.jpg http://i998.photobucket.com/albums/af104/ric02124/231-1.jpg

Mayor Menino's Crohn's

10-07-2010, 11:05 PM

As cynical as it sounds, but that hole in the DTX will be there until Mumbles retires...or goes to jail

bostonbred

10-09-2010, 10:04 PM

Mayo hole NOT jail hole

JohnAKeith

11-05-2010, 10:49 PM

Adam Gaffin at Universal Hub just posted a link to this. Love it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HfH4Rx8Ao6A

Meadowhawk

11-06-2010, 01:22 AM

^John, thank you so very much for posting this trolly ride. What a treat, love it! Boston was such a vibrant and wonderful city back then. It was great to see the original Jordan Marsh Company. Boston seems to be just a shadow of that energetic and vibrant setting. What a tragic loss Boston has endured.

found5dollar

11-06-2010, 09:57 AM

^ People on this board are always saying stuff like this and it drives me crazy. Times change in all cities. No city in america looks like that video today, and arguably for the better. Being stuck up here in New Hampshire right now may give me a different view point from those of you living in Boston, but all i know is at the time this video was shot people worked in mills trying to make a better life so that their children would not have to live in the city. Now, every move I make and many of my friends as well, is in hopes of moving away from suburbia and into the city. My main goal right now is to save up enough money and get enough experience so that I can move to boston. Alot of people here decry the loss of the grit of the city and all the colleges and hospitals taking over and destroying the urban fabric of the city, but these things are what draw people to a modern city, and the grit can defiantly be found if you look in the right places.

It just seems everyone sees the bad side of change, but in all honesty if Boston was still exactly as it was when that video was made, no one would want to be there. From a historical perspective that video is amazing and tons of fun to watch, but don't say that it is "tragic" boston isn't like that today. It is still an amazing place with qualities other cities would do anything to get, and many people are striving to get to.

gooseberry

11-06-2010, 01:01 PM

I guess it all depends on your perspective. I feel like I'm stuck in Boston wishing I could move back to London or at least New York. Anyway, Boston still has good street life (during the day at least) and it wasn't that long ago that you would see lots of people like that in Downtown Crossing.

erikyow

11-06-2010, 02:13 PM

I agree with found5dollar. Fact is, no city is like this anymore. Yes, it's really interesting to see how things were a century ago, but this isn't something that's unique to Boston either. Almost all cities in the industrialized world have changed. Whether or not you think it's a positive or negative is up to you.

Yes, we need to swing the pendulum back from the glorified view of suburbia toward a more urban lifestyle, but there needs to be a balance. A romanticized view of how things were a century ago is not it either. Cities were dirty, smelly, ugly places to be. However, if that is your idea of a city, check out places in India and China. To an extent, those places today are how our cities were a hundred years back.

And gooseberry, if your idea of a city of New York or London, then clearly Boston isn't for you. People need to stop trying to compare Boston to cities like that. For starters, it's a fraction the size. If your idea of a city is what New York or London offers, then that's great. They're fantastic cities. But please don't think that Boston is lacking because it, as of region of roughly 5 million, can't offer the same amenities. No city of comparable size can. I live in Toronto and it's definitely more like Boston than New York or London. Same thing with Miami, Washington or San Francisco; I wouldn't compare any of them to New York or London. Yes, Boston can be a bit sleepier at night than some of those other cities, but I don't think doubling the size would change that either.

That said, I'm not saying that Boston is on the right track either. We should be striving to be more like cities like Berlin or Amsterdam; cities of comparable size that are doing a better job achieving an urban equilibrium. But comparing a region of five million to a region of twenty million that also has a much larger tourism cachet is disingenuous at best.

TheRifleman

11-06-2010, 02:44 PM

Just got back from DTX.

125 Summer is a nice building
101 Arch is a nice building
Lincoln St is a nice building but the location is not warm or welcoming. I felt like I was on a highway.

100 Summer St Sucks
Filenes is the key for DTX revial. Downtown was not too busy,

The Greenway was dead.
The entire Greenway area from Harbor Garage to South Station is completely deserted.

I'm actually curious what the city's vision is for the 21st century.
It doesn't look promising

vanshnookenraggen

11-06-2010, 07:07 PM

words

*like*

Mayor Menino's Crohn's

11-07-2010, 01:09 AM

I was walking with the wifey earlier tonight. We walked past the refurbished Modern Theater, and it looked great. If it weren't for the crater, DTC would be hopping right now.

Meadowhawk

11-07-2010, 01:43 AM

[QUOTE=found5dollar;111803]^ People on this board are always saying stuff like this and it drives me crazy. Times change in all cities. No city in america looks like that video today, and arguably for the better...

So what you're saying is the leveling of the entire West End of Boston to put up what is there now is better? The destruction of a major swath of Boston to build the old Expressway was better because of progress? You may be stuck in New Hampshire as you say, but I've been all over Europe and cities like Paris and Amsterdam are fascinating because they are modern, yet have kept their architecture intact. Yes, it is very tragic to me that the destruction of beautiful old architecture, superior to the crap that replaced it, was, and is still so reckless in the city of Boston. You need to travel more. Instead of saving your money for a move to Boston, take a nice long tour of Europe.

gooseberry

11-07-2010, 02:37 AM

If you think that cities like that are a thing of the past and nobody wants to live in a place like that, you need to get out more.

found5dollar

11-07-2010, 11:57 AM

So what you're saying is the leveling of the entire West End of Boston to put up what is there now is better? The destruction of a major swath of Boston to build the old Expressway was better because of progress? You may be stuck in New Hampshire as you say, but I've been all over Europe and cities like Paris and Amsterdam are fascinating because they are modern, yet have kept their architecture intact. Yes, it is very tragic to me that the destruction of beautiful old architecture, superior to the crap that replaced it, was, and is still so reckless in the city of Boston. You need to travel more. Instead of saving your money for a move to Boston, take a nice long tour of Europe.

Thanks, but i already have been to Europe multiple times, London, Paris, Edinburough, Amsterdam, Rome, Brussles, etc, and it is pretty obvious that i am not advocating the destruction of historic buildings. All i am saying is that this board is full of nostalgia for a time that will not happen again in Boston or many other cities across the country. I'm not saying that any specific thing was good or bad, just that instead of decrying the loss of overcrowding and streetcars and a heavy urbanity, we should be thinking of ideas and ways to smartly add to the current fabric of boston.

Also, thanks for the personal attacks and talking down to me... it really makes me respect your opinion more.

erikyow

11-07-2010, 03:07 PM

If you think that cities like that are a thing of the past and nobody wants to live in a place like that, you need to get out more.

I've been out in the world plenty, but thanks for the tip. Been around four continents, some developed, some less so. I challenge you to show me a city in the developed world with a population in the 4-6 million metro range that has that kind of crowding on the streets at all times.

It doesn't exist. For starters, we no longer need to be overcrowded like that, and yes, that's what that is. Places like the North End were fantastically overcrowded. Nowadays, we have transit that allows places like Cambridge and Jamaica Plain to be easily accessible to the entire region. In 1903, transit was in existence, but still not as reliable and widespread as it was by the time World War II came around.

Frankly, that kind of crowding is not my idea of a good time. You can have a vibrant, living city with an active streetscape and still be able to walk down the sidewalk without bumping into 5,000 other people along the way (I know I avoid the extremely busy streets and squares in my city when possible for the simple fact that it's not an efficient use of my time to try and use them when they're not my destination). Again, there is a healthy balance to be struck and places like Amsterdam, Munich or Berlin are examples to be followed; cities of comparable size to Boston that have achieved and equilibrium of a busy streetscape and vibrant urbanity but not overcrowded.

riffgo

11-07-2010, 04:06 PM

How do you define, "overcrowded"?

BarbaricManchurian

11-07-2010, 05:16 PM

Even most Asian cities don't have much street life outside of the city center.

TheRifleman

11-08-2010, 04:39 AM

Home /Business
Downtown Crossing effort hits $1m snag
Big properties reject improvement group fees
By Casey Ross
Globe Staff / November 8, 2010

Some of the largest property owners in Boston’s Downtown Crossing are refusing to help fund a new organization created to improve the downtrodden shopping district, erasing about 25 percent of its budget for stepped-up maintenance, aesthetic upgrades, and public festivals.

Tweet Be the first to Tweet this!..
Yahoo! Buzz ShareThis .The organization, known as a business improvement district, was approved by the City Council in August after dozens of business owners asked for permission to join together and pay extra taxes to help revitalize their neighborhood.

While more than 80 percent of the area’s property owners have signed onto the effort, the few holdouts own many of Downtown Crossing’s largest buildings and were expected to provide about $1 million in annual funding. Instead, they have notified the city that they will not participate, punching a large hole in the budget and angering Mayor Thomas M. Menino.

“It’s a little selfish,’’ said Menino, who has made revitalizing the historic shop ping district one of his top priorities. “To me, it’s not being a good neighbor.’’

The property owners declining to participate include Equity Office Properties, which owns five large buildings in the neighborhood, and Tishman Speyer, the New York real estate giant that owns One Federal Street, one of the area’s tallest office towers. Also refusing to join are three McDonald’s restaurants in the district and entrepreneur Steve Belkin, who owns an office building at 133 Federal St. and previously proposed construction of a 1,000-foot tower there.

Their refusals highlight a major snag in the effort to create the city’s first improvement district and to replicate it in other neighborhoods around the city. Unlike other states with such organizations, Massachusetts allows businesses within the district to opt out of paying the fees to support it. While those firms can still benefit from the improvements the organization provides, they do not have to share the financial burden.

“We’re the only state that does it this way,’’ said Rosemarie Sansone, executive director of the Downtown Crossing Partnership, a business association that has been organizing the effort. “I don’t think it’s fair that some people can opt out and others still meet their obligations and take responsibility for providing these resources.’’

The state’s law was passed during the administration of former governor William Weld. A spokeswoman for the Equity Office declined to comment, as did a representative of Tishman Speyer. Belkin did not respond to phone messages. Attempts to reach the Napoli Group, a franchisee who operates two of the district’s McDonalds, were unsuccessful.

Downtown Crossing supporters have been particularly motivated to spruce up the area. The district, already suffering from years of declining activity, is pockmarked with empty storefronts that have invited petty crime and graffiti, discouraging new companies from locating there.

The stalled redevelopment of the Filene’s building has also hurt, leaving a massive construction crater in the heart of the district as well as the prolonged closure of Filene’s Basement, which had made the area a destination for shoppers and tourists.

Sansone and other supporters of the Downtown Crossing organization said they are not yet sure how they will compensate for the loss in funding, which will cut the annual budget to about $3 million from an anticipated $4 million. Several small businesses have also balked at paying extra for the improvement district.

Tweet Be the first to Tweet this!..
Yahoo! Buzz ShareThis .Organizers are trying to pay for an array of enhancements, including daily cleaning crews, stepped-up graffiti removal, and uniformed “ambassadors’’ to help direct tourists. The new group would also publish promotional materials, plan music and arts festivals, and devise standard lighting, landscaping, and other design elements to improve the area’s appearance.

The work is scheduled to get underway next spring. It will be paid for through an annual fee levied on commercial property owners within the boundaries of the district, which covers a large grid of streets from City Hall to Chinatown and stretches east to Congress Street. Property owners will pay $1.10 per thousand dollars on the first $70 million in assessed value of their holdings in the district and 50 cents per thousand dollars beyond that limit. Residential owners are exempt.

“We’re looking at the budget right now in terms of what services we’ll be able to deliver,’’ Sansone said. “It’s important to have as many property owners as possible engaged in what we’re doing.’’

She and others said Equity Office Properties, by far the largest of the holdouts, has shown interest but has questioned whether the firm should be included in the improvement district because many of its buildings are on the fringes of Downtown Crossing.

Many other large companies have already agreed to pay the fee and are helping to manage the improvement district. Among them are Bank of America, State Street Corp., Fidelity Investments, Macy’s, and the Druker Co., a real estate firm that owns several buildings in the area. A multitude of smaller businesses are also participating, from hair salons to cafes to jewelry stores.

Many business owners and city officials said the improvement district is a way to take matters into their own hands.

“I personally believe this is the beginning of the resurgence of Downtown Crossing,’’ said City Councilor Bill Linehan, chairman of the council’s economic development committee. “Once people see this work begin, I think it will only encourage others to participate.’’

Casey Ross can be reached at cross@globe.com.

http://www.boston.com/business/articles/2010/11/08/downtown_crossing_improvement_plans_hit_snag/?page=2

vanshnookenraggen

11-08-2010, 08:41 AM

Only in Boston.

Ron Newman

11-08-2010, 08:43 AM

I doubt it. Don't BIDs often result in such conflicts between property owners who want to participate and those who don't?

TheRifleman

11-08-2010, 09:14 AM

This line is a classic.

“It’s a little selfish,’’ said Menino, who has made revitalizing the historic shop ping district one of his top priorities. “To me, it’s not being a good neighbor.’’

It's like the Mob making collections on everybody now.
Taxes
BID
Non-Profit better start coughing up money.

Here comes FAT TONY.

Wocket

11-08-2010, 10:46 AM

ablarc

11-08-2010, 10:56 AM

^ Yeah, Chauncy Street and Arch Street should define the southern border.

Shepard

11-08-2010, 11:14 AM

If you think that cities like that are a thing of the past and nobody wants to live in a place like that, you need to get out more.

I went to the Tenement Museum (http://www.tenement.org/ )in New York this weekend - I highly recommend their tours of a tenement "restored' to its former decrepitude.

It really makes you reconsider street life.

Let's forget cars for a second. First of all, density was much higher, so there were more people living ON the street, not just in the street. The reasons were multiple, ranging from poverty to (then) highly labor-intensive cottage industries like garment manufacturing. Second, in the not too distant past, nobody had refridgerators. They needed to go outside and purchase daily perishables. This also meant a role for your local pushcarts. Third, the street was the place for commerce - not just buying and selling of consumer goods, but actually the place where fabrics were sold to micro-sweatshops, where finished dresses were handed to a "runner" who would take it to Macy's, and so forth. Cottage industries are inhenerntly decentralized, making the steet a primary place of exchange.

None of this is true anymore in the US. But, this reminds me a lot of what I've seen in India over the last few years.

sidewalks

11-08-2010, 02:02 PM

The tenement museum is well worth the trip. Really a fascinating peak at life in a different era.

Boston02124

11-08-2010, 03:58 PM

looks great,I still have most of that furniture in my home right now includeing that stove lol!

gooseberry

11-08-2010, 04:00 PM

Can't you people move on? I didn't think it was worth draging out since TheRifleman posted some new information about the BID, but I was really just refering to the physical scale and variety of the street scape. I never advocated over crowding and slum conditions and actually I said Boston has good street life as it is right now. I should have been clearer the first time, now get over it. Thanks.

Lurker

11-08-2010, 07:52 PM

Check out how conspicuously the district's boarders droop into the Financial District. No wonder they don't wish to pay.

http://www.downtowncrossing.org/about/business_improvement_district.php (http://www.downtowncrossing.org/about/business_improvement_district.php )

Those expanded borders make it clear that the city is simply trying to get additional funds on top of taxes to fix up a streetscape which it has been neglecting since the 1930s. The condition of many sidewalks and streetscapes downtown are embarrassing and it appears this is a big money grab. I'm in favor of a BID specifically for the shopping district, but this really does look like a swipe for a slush fund.

JohnAKeith

11-08-2010, 08:16 PM

The most awesome part of the Globe story is the news that Steve Belkin isn't contributing to the BID (nor should he; for one reason, his building is about 1/2 a mile away ...).

Guess he isn't that enthusiastic about "Tommy's Tower" anymore.

AmericanFolkLegend

11-08-2010, 09:38 PM

BostonUrbEx

11-09-2010, 08:43 AM

JohnAKeith

11-09-2010, 11:01 PM

Where the BID is and where it should be ... if I were emperor.

http://johnakeithrealestate.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/dtx_map.png

vanshnookenraggen

11-09-2010, 11:52 PM

Wait, that was the BID they proposed? No wonder people are opting out, that is ridiculous.

BosDevelop

11-10-2010, 01:00 PM

That map is absurd. I have worked at 101 Federal for more than 10 years now and not one single time in 10 years has anyone referred to my office as being in Downtown Crossing.

Sicilian

11-10-2010, 01:38 PM

TheRifleman

11-10-2010, 02:25 PM

The boundary is really meaningless.

Once they sink their teeth in with the first BID, the next will follow soon after. The Director of the Downtown Crossing Partnership hinted as much on NPR when she mentioned the dozens or hundreds of BIDs in NYC that are so incredibly successful.

I'd like to learn more about the DCP. Is this another $200k+ directorship along the lines of the Greenway Conservancy? And on what experience does the staff draw its expertise?

If I were emperor, the only property owners subject to an improvement fee would be for-profit commercial owners exempted by the Mayor / BRA from paying property taxes. Beyond that, it seems like extortion and possibly another disincentive for outsiders to invest in buying property within the district.

^^
Great post
Stuff like this keeps companies from growing, expanded or even relocating to our city. Why would you take the chance in any of those 3 things when your facing raising taxes, BID, NPR, Greenway special taxes, Menino special taxes. It's absolutely insane what is going on in this city.

The politicans are the only ones smothering anytype of economic activity in the city.

Is NYC as corrupt as BOSTON? Bloomberg is a billionaire does he really need 10k white envelopes?

Lurker

11-10-2010, 07:33 PM

BIDs are supposed to be small districts such that all the property owners share the same interests in funding neighborhood improvements. These borders are a blatant money grab aimed at having office hi-rises pay for improvements in the unrelated shopping district that the city doesn't feel like paying for itself.

TheRifleman

11-23-2010, 11:18 AM

briv

11-23-2010, 11:42 AM

Anybody on this board have a solutions for DOWNTOWN? Selling it off to the colleges would be a simple solution. I'm not sure if you really want to make our Downtown shopping district another college zone. But it would probably solve Menino's headaches.

What about what I suggested in my back posts.........persuading fashion companies to head to downtown Boston?

I think we should give up on the idea that DTX must be this sacred retail mecca. I would like to see a plan that encourages more people to live there, perhaps modeled after the example set by Emerson and Suffolk in which they erected an additional layer of set-back residential buildings behind existing historic buildings. I would also carve a few streets through Lafayette and line them with mixed use, humanly scaled buildings. But I think once we get lots of people living in Downtown Crossing, we'll see many of its chronic problems disappear quickly.

TheRifleman

11-23-2010, 12:07 PM

I think we should give up on the idea that DTX must be this sacred retail mecca. I would like to see a plan that encourages more people to live there, perhaps modeled after the example set by Emerson and Suffolk in which they erected an additional layer of set-back residential buildings behind existing historic buildings. I would also carve a few streets through Lafayette and line them with mixed use, humanly scaled buildings. But I think once we get lots of people living in Downtown Crossing, we'll see many of its chronic problems disappear quickly.

I would agree with this, if the entire city wasn't a college dorm at this point. So I'm still going to hope for a retail mecca in this area. I'm sure it will never happen because their is just too much economic and political risk for private industry to move forward in the city of Boston.

czsz

11-23-2010, 01:35 PM

There's a case to keep - or revive - DTC as a "retail mecca". Before South Bay was built, it managed to retain that function for many people living in Roxbury, Dorchester, JP, and other places accessible on the Red and Orange lines. DTC is convenient to all major transit lines - it makes more sense to have a retail center here than abutting I-93 in a location that's only really accessible by bus and car.

Ideally, South Bay would be phased out of existence, and serious incentives made to lure its tenants (and customers) back downtown.

The best part - none of this means you have to sacrifice the inclusion of more residents or college kids in apartments behind or above.

KentXie

11-23-2010, 01:57 PM

You'll have to find a lot of space to house these big box stores.

Beton Brut

11-23-2010, 02:06 PM

The challenge isn't space, Kent. It's "reorienting the shopping experience" for a big-box store. It's all about the shopping cart at Target and Walmart and Kohls. How to make that work in a vertical environment?

czsz -- What to do with with the "big-box Stonehenge" in South Bay?

czsz

11-23-2010, 02:13 PM

How to make that work in a vertical environment?

Yeah. These stores have been more than successful with relatively small ground floor spaces in NY. Install those shopping cart escalators and you're good to go.

czsz -- What to do with with the "big-box Stonehenge" in South Bay?

Cheap housing? Room for the less savory / dangerous biotech labs? Open space that can be cited in statistics to get Bostonians to stop complaining about how overcrowded / shadowy the city is? You could do almost anything with it.

Beton Brut

11-23-2010, 02:30 PM

Room for the less savory / dangerous biotech labs?

I drive through the area sometimes and I see the next frontier for BUMC and the LMA institutions. I'd like to see a centralized shipping, receiving, warehousing, and cryostorage facility somewhere along the Melnea Cass corridor. The South Bay site would be perfect for a large, shared facility for BI/DMC, BWH, CHB, Joslin, DFCI, HMS/HSPH, and BUMC. It would create a few jobs, I'm sure. It makes too much sense...

briv

11-23-2010, 03:00 PM

czsz -- What to do with with the "big-box Stonehenge" in South Bay?

Though it's treated like an exurban highway exit, South Bay is actually the same distance from City Hall as West Fenway. I'd love to see the city's fabric extended to South Bay right down along 93, incorporating the dead zone created by the highway along with it.

KentXie

11-23-2010, 04:31 PM

Yeah. These stores have been more than successful with relatively small ground floor spaces in NY. Install those shopping cart escalators and you're good to go.

Cheap housing? Room for the less savory / dangerous biotech labs? Open space that can be cited in statistics to get Bostonians to stop complaining about how overcrowded / shadowy the city is? You could do almost anything with it.

Nah. South Bay will become the new Seaport with acres of parking lot space being redeveloped.

czsz

11-23-2010, 05:02 PM

Er, I doubt it. There hasn't exactly been a scramble to develop the Seaport, and that's waterfront property. South Bay's biggest asset is quick access to 93...